political party position reversals over time

Lincoln was a progressive??? Lincoln was a radical??? Not exactly true but many around him were radicals. For you see some of them like Seward wanted to go to war with the South (look I capitalized it) to end slavery. Lincoln would have kept slavery if it would have preserved the union. I suggest you read Dr. Jennifer Weber's book "Copperheads" about the people around Lincoln and Lincoln himself.
"I am a proud progressive"--Hillary Clinton during a debate and we know what progressives are in reality.
You can complain all you want but JFK was what today we consider a conservative.

The Dixiecrats from their name were democrats, DEMOCRATS that were against integration. They bolted the party in 1948 and they lost the election. Afterwards they could not go back to the Democratic party so they started drifting towards the GOP. Of course by 1964 the democrats were against civil rights for black Americans. Since you brought it up, in 1948 the Progressives also ran a candidate for president; Communist Henry Wallace from the FDR administration.
Monger you also need to do something about your knee jerk hatred and bigotry towards southerns since they make up the bulk of our armed forces. Do you have something against servicepeople??? Also remember that the 13th star on the Confederate flag was Missouri. I will assume that you are from Missouri so you are a southern and, by your standards, pretty much of a fill in the blank.

3. Dixiecrats are what you're talking about, not northern Democrats. Dixiecrats lived in the South and are an extinct species.
Originally Posted by Longermonger

The southern Democrats reigned in the South from the end of Civil War until the 70's and 80's, when the National Democratic party embraced the black vote and the Moral Majority aligned with the GOP (Yeah, tell me the southern evangelists weren't racist).

Northern Democrats were mostly academics (Ivy League) and children of rich Industrialists (Papa Joe Kennedy had to get rich to gain admission). Northern Republicans were farmers. JFK was popular, not populist, He was the rich one, Nixon was poor.

The LBJ/Goldwater election was similar. Johnson was much richer than his good ol' boy image. Goldwater was a John Burch, common man candidate.



It was the populist movement started by the Democratic National Convention (1974) that moved the Democrats to the masses and factionalist groups (Gays, Blacks, Hispanics, NOW, environmentalists, PETA, etc. all gained a voice in the reorganized party) after a SOUND whupping by the GOP in the '72 Nixon election.

In the Ford/Carter/Reagan transitions most of the party affiliations switched sides. It was a great strategy by the Dems, to re-image themselves as the party of the people, and stigmatize the GOP as the haven for the rich.

Than W comes along and REALLY screws up the definitions, he was NOTHING like the old time Republicans.

Only the farmers (GOP) and the academics (DEM) have stayed the course.

I guess the only thing to do is to look at what the Democratic says they stand for and what do they really stand for.
The Working Man: The Unions and Labor are two keystones of the democratic party but what do they really support; illegal alien labor that is competing with working Americans. Not doctors or lawyers but bricklayers, drywallers, and carpenters to name a few. Democrats also supported the farce that was Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac for the common man. Except it is the common man that is being forced to cover the multi-billion dollar fraud perpetrated by the underclasses and democratic law makers. Democrats also DO NOT support some things that common man likes; school choice and vouchers. The public overwhelmingly loves them but the democrats hate em. The secret ballot is opposed by democrats but what American is against the secret ballot?

The democrats take money from big business and big oil. This election they got the lion's share of both. Obama was the biggest beneficiary of BP spending. Speaking of Obama there was a blizzard in the Kentucky in February of 2009. People died when power went out. It took Obama 10 days to note the event and never went to the region. There was a record blizzard in Kentucky in December of 2009 and people again died when the power went out. This time Obama was on the ball and mentioned it after only 6 days. Nashville flooded last month and people died. Obama waited for another 6 days before acknowleging the event. Kentucky and Tennessee voted for McCain so I guess Obama hates white people? Or at least white people who voted against him. Oil flows in the Gulf of Mexico and Obama waits 8 days (of course they are all trying to say "since day one...." to fool us into believing that he acted) to take some kind of concrete action. I know the common perception is that the fisherman down there are white men but I lived a couple of miles from Irish Bayou near the mouth of Lake Ponchartrain for a couple of years. Many of those fisherman are black, cajun, creol, etc. I'm curious if anyone can name a crisis that was responded to immediately by this administration. And remember, Bush is no longer in office so let's not rehash Katrina (with the Dem Governor, dem mayor, and Posse Commitatus)

"As we all know, the South has always been a problem for the United States"

Ever been to the south?

Taken the economic pulse of the nation lately...by region?!?!

Please tell me you know more about the south than watching My Cousin Vinnie, before making blanket generalizations.

People please keep your arguments to the facts and opinions rather than attacking the person who disagrees with you.

I had a serious brain fart Byrd is in fact the senator from W. Virgina, my appologies to the carolina's.

Hey Folks, I thought I'd bring to the platter a debate worthy of this forum, but WOW!!!! I still stand by my studies about JFK and economics, but many of you bring out great points and I respect your points very much. Yes, the Dems nearly killed the Civil Rights Act, but like him or not (and I detest him), Johnson used his political muscle and then some to get that piece of legislation passes. That is, IMO when the Solid South turned Republican. And, I also agree that Nixon gets credit for the points Gryphon brought out. John_Galt, it looks as if Arizona is beginning the revolution, then. Obama's job (Like Bush before him) is/(was) to protect our borders and their answer seems to be National Council of LaRaza's plan, AMNESTY, or another 2007 Comprehensive Immigration Reform, which 69% of the American citizenry said with a loud and resounding "NO!!!!!" I personally don't advocate mean treatment to illegals, but they are breaking the law being here. If you try to sneak into North Korea, Cuba, China, Iran, Mexico and a few other places in the world, you'll be jailed, possibly tortured, and possibly never heard from again. But, illegals demand drivers licenses, social security numbers, food stamps, medical care and other benefits that we tax payers aren't even eligible to receive. At the rate Obama is going, he may very well end up a one term president or as a two termer, he'll be forced to work with an even more hostile Congress and Senate than he has now. What do you think? No political slander or name calling needed, just a civil forum. PS. Omahan, good example of greed with the name Rockefeller.

Kris Kobach, who wrote the Arizona law, was on the ready over the weekend. He said that he has been contacted by the legislatures of many states and when the new legislative season opens there will be more states enacting the Arizona law. Kobach is also chairing the law suit against the city of San Fransisco whereas a family was wiped out by a random shooting by a gangbanger. This model of citizenry was also a multi time arrested illegal alien who San Fransisco refused to deport. Kobach is trying to hold the city accountable for refusing to enforce the law.

San Francisco??? Refuses to deport a murderer who is an illegal? Nonsense! (NOT). Do I smell Nancy Pelosi's fingers in this? She and that "Gorgeous and Handsome" Mayor of theirs (I'm sorry but his name slips me. I just remember the girls going ga-ga over him) refused to deport him, and unless I'm mistaken, I'm not sure he is in custody. Before Lou Dobbs left CNN, he had the story on this and received a lot of backlash for LaRaza and other illegal alien advocacy groups. I didn't know Koback wrote the Arizona law, but I read where if he is elected as Kansas Sectretary of State (SOS), he'll write the same law for Kansas. I believe he'll be the next SOS in Kansas. He has a platform that people agree (the AZ Law) and name recognition, and unless he blows it like he did against Dennis Moore a few elections ago, he should win by a fair margin. Any thoughts?

1. Political parties are empty vessels, and can become a platform for any cause.

2. "Progressive" is a misnomer.

3. Progressive President, Woodrow Wilson, was thrilled to death with "The Birth of a Nation."

3. JFK would not fall in line with the modern Democrat stereotype.

4. The Myth of the Racist South.

5. Judging all Southerners is a form of bigotry.

6. We're all Keynsian.

7. Beware the military-industrial complex.

8. Importing foreign nationals, yet exporting jobs.

9. Neither MacReady nor Childes were a Thing.

10. There is a 4-axis political spectrum: libertarianism vs. statism, and left vs. right.

11. The above philosophy can reconcile "anti-government" militias and fascists somehow both being the extreme right wing.

12. Why hasn't the USA PATRIOT Act been repealed?

13. Troops were supposed to leave Iraq already.

14. Why are our police being militarized?

15. Why are people being arrested for victimless crimes?

16. Stop watching the television.

17. Don't purchase a firearm; purchase plenty of .223 (.556) and 9mm rounds.

18. Does Nancy Pelosi offer DATY?

Anyone remember the TV show Dharma and Greg? I once sent them an idea for an episode. Dharma's father was finally caught and had to go to the DMV to get a license. There he met another guy who shared the same anti-government views. They really hit it off. Neither likes the intrusion, the oversight, or the regulations. Of course Dharma's father is all "right on brother", "you said it", and "power to the people". The guy invites Mr. Finklestein to meet some of his friends and he agrees. He shows up at a meeting hall ready to start the revolution and the 60s again. There he finds some NAZI party members including his new friend. They all feel the same way and believe in the same thing! The hippie and the Nazis.

Anyone remember the TV show Dharma and Greg? I once sent them an idea for an episode. Dharma's father was finally caught and had to go to the DMV to get a license. There he met another guy who shared the same anti-government views. They really hit it off. Neither likes the intrusion, the oversight, or the regulations. Of course Dharma's father is all "right on brother", "you said it", and "power to the people". The guy invites Mr. Finklestein to meet some of his friends and he agrees. He shows up at a meeting hall ready to start the revolution and the 60s again. There he finds some NAZI party members including his new friend. They all feel the same way and believe in the same thing! The hippie and the Nazis. Originally Posted by john_galt

The problem is that the political debate has been corrupted and perverted. Some people truly believe that liberals want good, "progressive" change, while conservatives avoid change. Hippies and communists are on the left, while anti-statists and fascists are on the right. It gets to a point where the illogical connotations get infuriating. Most liberals aren't liberal, and most conservatives aren't conservative.

People can run around in circles pointing out communism, socialism, fascism, and so forth; however, the real issue is statism. The so-called liberals, while pretending to support liberty, merely wishes to use coercive government force force to achieve their own pet issues. Meanwhile, the so-called small government conservatives still support government spending, so long as it suits them (Social Security, for example).

Meanwhile, we are quickly heading toward an increasingly authoritarian state, in which people of all political leanings attempt to tell others how to live. In the end, we all lose. I've always considered myself conservative, but apparently my envisioning of conservatism doesn't fall in line with that of the mainstream.

I'm so sick of political garbage, particularly the hot-button issues such as race. For instance, right or wrong, Rand Paul had said that he disagreed with some aspects of the Civil Rights Act. He had tried to get into a philosophical debate on the nature of public vs. private property, and whether or not people do have a right to discriminate (in a similar vein as freedom of speech). Oh, but Rachel Maddow and the rest tried to make it like he's the Grand Imperial Wizard of the Kentucky Ku Klux Klan (KKKK...or KYKKK?). Intellectual dishonesty (or non-existence!) irks me.

12. Why hasn't the USA PATRIOT Act been repealed?

Good question, I think I am going to start a thread to include this and other questions.


13. Troops were supposed to leave Iraq already.

14. Why are our police being militarized?

I have been asking this for years. Seems like more and more departments are growing their 'SWAT" teams, I am waiting for the day when I get pulled over by a patrol officer and he is dressed in tactical gear.

15. Why are people being arrested for victimless crimes?

Well if they are breaking the law then they should be arrested. We should be forcing changes in the law so that they are no longer crimes. Although I have not smoked any for many many years pot should be legal, prostitution should be legal. Another question should be, why are we sending people for prison for non violent crimes, when other forms of punishment would work better and would not cost society the money of locking them up.


17. Don't purchase a firearm; purchase plenty of .223 (.556) and 9mm rounds.

I am not sure what good bullets are going to do with out a weapon.

18. Does Nancy Pelosi offer DATY?

Man this is just to gross to contemplate.

Nancy Pelosi+DATY??? Might as well lick the inside corner of your leather sofa, might even find some change

12. Why hasn't the USA PATRIOT Act been repealed?

Good question, I think I am going to start a thread to include this and other questions.
Originally Posted by dirty dog

If you talk to airline passengers coming from outside the US, the security scans are MUCH less rigorous. The TSA is all about tracking our citizen's travel, not preventing terrorists from coming to the country. Can anyone provide a single instance of the TSA preventing a real threat (Other than contraband toothpaste and water bottles).

Reminds me of the news reports about the USSR travel restrictions we used to see in the sixties.