Illegal Immigration.. your thoughts

maybe not the most constructive post but....
fuck all the lame ass teabagger bullshit...
without these MOJADOS none of you would be sitting on your fat asses eating and/ or doing the things them MOJADITOS do...
and yes i am hispanic too btw...

and these "wets" contribute alot more than you think be it taxes or ssi and all that crap, i mean those who dont get paid cash. Healthcare blah blah blah yea it does cost us, but what about all the poor white trash and lazy ass mexicans that are here that do the same thing as them? should we kick them the hell out of here too?

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Please consult Rule 15 of the Forum Guidelines before posting again. M

You know, the real problem is the Mexican government. They keep their poor at the bottom of the chain. These people have to do something. And their government loves for them to come here and send money home to their families.
That is the problem. We are too lenient on Mexico and their treatment of their people, which forces these people to do something.

I am in total agreement that Illegal is illegal. No argument from me there.

BUT, maybe our govt needs to impose harsh sanctions on the Mexican govt, until they keep these people there, and make it so they don't have to leave their own country to survive.

Their own govt could make work programs. Hire these people to build roads, and sewage plants, real housing and so on. Improve the country, hire their workers, etc. The Mexican govt has every incentive to keep "allowing" these illegals to come here, and no reasons to keep them there.

Just my 2 cents, of course. (with inflation - about 1/2 a penny)

If this country had full employment like we used to have then I'd say let 'um do the jobs few others will take.

But we have 10 percent unemployment over the country now, and Congress is deadlocked over extending unemployment benefits for up to 99 weeks, or almost 2 years, because of this recession. They are debating whether we should borrow another 43 billion from China to do this! It's become insane.

The legality of the issue doesn't mean a shit to the business interests who are exploiting them, and influencing the government to look the other way. Just shows you how stupid we the public are for taking laws seriously when our elites don't give a shit about them when it suits them - and they control our government.

But legal issues aside, this is now an issue of national economic security, and on those grounds these illegals must now start packing!

this problem could be solved reall easy . obama just gave hjs brazilian buddy ungodly amounts of money. he screws off money ljkr theres no tommorrow . if some of it would be directed to problems like these some of this shit could be taken care of.

Wow. Illegal means illegal. I am laughing so hard. This, this is on a website dedicated to reviewing prostitution. What part of illegal don't you understand?

Don't just mime the words being spoonfed to you by neocon pundits and blowhards. Think for yourselves. Illegal aliens have become the new boogeymen. They are being blamed for everything wrong in this country. But just stop and think about the situation. Is it really illegal alien's causing all the problems?

This country was founded on immigrants. This country has laws in place for the control and deportation of aliens. These laws are being enforced every day by dedicated border patrols, port authority, and border checkpoints. Also by ICE, department of homeland security, and immigration judges all over the country.

People come in to the United States illegally through holes in border fences, through rivers, and through the desert. The majority of these people come here to work and for a better life. Here in Texas undocumented workers do indeed pay taxes. Everytime they make a purchase they pay state sales tax. If they are lucky to buy property they pay property taxes. If they are lucky to be paid by paycheck they pay FICA. Under current existing law no undocumented worker is eligible to receive welfare, foodstamps, housing, or any other government benefit. Where is this drain on the economy you speak of?

As far as jobs, these undocumented workers choices are very limited. They take menial and mostly undesirable jobs that other people turn down. Here the culprit is the employer not the employee. The employers are hiring undocumented people because they work for less money basically exploiting these people and cheating them and cheating you.

The law in Arizona, in my opinion, is unconstitutional. It is indeed racial profiling as it allows police to have reasonable suspicion on a person because of their race. If the police stop three people a white, a black, and a Hispanic who are they going to ask is in the country illegally. What about a black, an Asian, and an Arab? If the law is meant to apply only to a small section of the population then it is an unconstitutional law. Instead arizona should have the law we have in Texas where the police hold a criminal suspect for ICE instead of trying to determine their legal status.

You people state you are proud Americans and I don't doubt that. My question is what have you done to deserve that status. Did you serve in the Armed Forces? Have you volunteered to help those less fortunate? What have you done to make you a proud American aside from having the unique privilige of being born here. These people walked through deserts for hours to get here, they swam a treacherous river to get here, some lost lives trying to get here. They did it for the chance at a better life.

I love this country. I stand by it and its beliefs that we are a better nation. You want to make it a nation that shoots people crossing the border. That's not America. What happenned to give me your tired your poor your huddled masses yearning to breathe free the wretched refuse of your teeming shore send these the homeless tempest-tossed to me I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

I am all for legal immigration. I am also for work exchange programs. That said, I am not for open borders or hyphenated Americans that refuse to adopt our language, culture and loyalty to the U.S. first and foremost. Mexicans and Americans invited to settle Texas with land grants from Santa Anna chaffed at the lack of liberty under a brutal regime and overthrew a corrupt dictatorship. Now a corrupt regime in Mexico is trying to solve their problems by sending waves of people to a free land to prop up their failed government. This is resulting in drug wars, security risks, a strain on education and social programs. Most of all there is a bleeding of much needed capitol that originated north of the border to Mexico(the dollars sent home to Mexico illegally is their biggest import).

It is not the workers fault! However, the continuation of this system is to neither sides benefit. We must find a way to help the Mexican people enjoy the same benefits of a free capitalistic society that we and our neighbors to the north enjoy.

A little tough love might be necessary. If they loose the easy solution of sending their hard working risk takers north and instead find a way to harness their spirit in their home country then it is win,win.

I love Tex-Mex. I'm just sayin....


And that's all I am gonna say about this topic in a forum in SA. I am dumb, but I am not stupid.

Now a corrupt regime in Mexico is trying to solve their problems by sending waves of people to a free land to prop up their failed government. This is resulting in drug wars, security risks, a strain on education and social programs. Most of all there is a bleeding of much needed capitol that originated north of the border to Mexico(the dollars sent home to Mexico illegally is their biggest import). Originally Posted by oden

Just curious how you substantiate that. What facts do you have to back up the Mexican government willfully sending people over?

One of Mexico's greatest imports is cash from the millions of Americans who use and purchase illegal drugs. Drug wars are a result of years of pressuring drug cartels and forcing power struggles within the vast organizations as drug money fails to filter up. That was set in place way before Obama. Mexico lacks the infrastructure to control violence on the street level like we do and as such, opportunistic crime is at an all time high. We can blame Mexico all we want, but the problems start here at home.

lacanterra, your 'bold' use of the term illegal for effect is funny as shit. Eddiecruz hit the nail on the head with that one.

Eddie you're da man.. Nice post.
Thanks Sa for your post as well.

I agree with EddieC.... I do like the pathway mentioned by 1trickpony with the exception of the gunship.

Mexicans and Americans invited to settle Texas with land grants from Santa Anna chaffed at the lack of liberty under a brutal regime and overthrew a corrupt dictatorship. Originally Posted by oden

LOL @ that part.. maybe you should read more history odin...
i think the "whites" didnt want to follow rules in the first place by NOT abolishing slavery and NOT becoming the religion of choice set by the mexican empire at the time.

and how is the mexican gov't sending ppl over here? are the providing them trucks or something? and what drug wars have been started over here?

eddiecruise... great post..

Eddie,
I agree w/ some of your points but IMO you are off base on others.
1. Illegal aliens do pay taxes to some extent. When they are paid by check most of the time FICA/Medicare taxes are withheld but in many cases they claim so many dependents that Federal Taxes are zero. Also, many are paid as “Contract Labor” and in these cases no taxes are ever paid.
2. You are correct in regards to laws being enforced by various agencies but IMO these agencies are under staffed and in many cases hamstrung by regulation. The first priority needs to be the sealing of the border. Once that is complete we can address the issue of what to do with the millions of illegal’s already in this country.
3. You and many others like to make the employers out as the “Bad Guys” in this issue when in reality it is the government’s lack of enforcement of the current laws as well as their ridiculously slow “Legal Immigration” process. As an employer you are given a list of documents that are acceptable forms of ID. One of these ID’s along w/ a SS card is all that is needed for employment. Employers are not forgery experts and until the feds put a simple process in place where you can verify if the documents are legit you should not lay the blame on the employers . I know of a case where after several years of employment a company was notified by the IRS of a bad SS number. After making sure that they had submitted the correct number (based on the SS card used by the employee) they determined that this was a fake SS card. When speaking w/ the IRS the employer stated that they were going to fire the employee. The IRS strongly advised the employer not to do that because it could violate employment laws and open them up to a law suit.
4. It also seems to be the politically correct view to claim that all of these illegal aliens are being taken advantage of by the evil employers paying them a lower wage strictly because they are illegal. I don’t believe this to be true in most cases. I think employers pay what the market dictates. Most of the time you are dealing w/ unskilled labor and this job is only going to pay minimum wage to around $15.00 PH depending on the job and location.
5. Your silly statement about shooting people crossing the border is left wing rhetoric. You seem smarter than that.
6. The law in Arizona does nothing except give the local law enforcement agencies the right to enforce the federal immigration laws currently on the books. If the feds would do their job then this would never have come up. Claiming this will cause racial profiling is again left wing rhetoric. People profile everyday and IMO there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. I want the TSA to pay close attention to Arabs when doing security checks. That doesn’t mean everybody else gets a pass but it also doesn’t mean that if you are from the middle east and happen to get a little extra scrutiny at the airport you have been harmed. Get over it.
7. You also seem to believe that since we are on a board that deals with illegal prostitution we should not have an opinion about any other laws that are being broken. That view point is extremely short sighted since everybody will break a law at some point and therefore we should all just ignore any and all illegal activities.
8. Lastly, I am a US citizen because my parents were citizens. I realize how fortunate I am to be a citizen of the United States but you seem to think that because these illegal’s suffered some hardships they are more deserving of citizenship. Sorry, that just doesn’t fly. If they want to be a US citizen then they need to go through the process (regardless of how slow it is) and get here legally.

Your silly statement about shooting people crossing the border is left wing rhetoric. You seem smarter than that. Originally Posted by Budman

Well...of least he reads:

lacanterra: Obama should put armed military on the border, protect it with all we have, and if necessary take immediate decisive action if need be. If a few more were shot I think it would be a deterrent for the others.

onetrickpony: *Fly helicopter gunships over along the border and shoot anybody not crossing at a legal checkpoint. If it is cheap and legal to enter the country at a legal crossing station for the above mentioned interviews/inspections/licensing, then anyone crossing anywhere else must be a criminal with violent intent and should be shot on sight. Instant death from above would help control the drug trade.

Therein lies the hypocrisy of the conservative viewpoint.

Budman, let me reply to some of your points, which by the way, were very eloquent, and intelligently made.

1. There's two types of taxes federal and state. We don't have a state tax in Texas but we do have a high state sales tax. That mean every purchase made by all people go into the state coffers. Federal taxes are determined by income in a scheme so convoluted I don't think even IRS knows who pays what percentage. But in every paycheck received FICA other deductions are made. Many undocumented workers don't ever file 1040's because they fear the government too much. Others as you state file 1040's but "claim so many dependents that Federal taxes are zero." I hope you notice a hint of prejudice there in your statement. Do undocumented people claim more dependents than black people? We can all make unsubstantiated, borderline prejudiced claims against all types of people but it doesn't make it true. Finally, yes most undocumented workers get paid in cash without any money going into the federal income tax. This should be an argument for comprehensive immigration reform. These people are here, they are working, let them contribute to the system.
2. Sealing the border is a tricky thing. he border is an imaginary line in the sand and water. We have put fences, guards, we have border patrol, checkpoints, helicopters, boats. But do you really want to live in a country closed off by walls like East Berlin back in the day. Is that America? You state that these various agencies entrusted with enforcing immigration law are understaffed and hamstrung by regulation. Yet they keep chugging along steadily and in my opinion if we already have agencies to enforce immigration law and they are understaffed, then maybe the first thing to do is better staff these offices instead of making new laws or inventing new agencies. Let's fix what we already have.
3. I don't make employers out to be the bad guy, just as I'm sure you're not making the government out to be the bad guy either. We all know in the real world bad guys/good guys don't exist especially not in the world of business where it's all about losses and profits. Yes, I agree that the majority of employers are solid and follow the rules and regulations. Yet there are a few businesses that don't follow the rules and regulations. Two forms of id are required to get a job and the IRS and ICE have started programs to check compliance. We're not talking about good businesses who have a few undocumented workers with bad cards. I'm talking about businesses that actively seek out undocumented workers because they know they can pay them smaller wages. There are a lot of businesses like that because again if they can keep their costs down their profits go up. Your point that undocumented workers use fake documents is sadly true, but how else are they going to work. They can't get social services or programs because of their illegal status. It's amazing to me that undocumented people are doing what they can to get a job even going so far as to get fake documents. How many people do you see who don't look for jobs, or who wait for their welfare check, undocumented people actually want to work. They break the law just to be able to work.
4. I wish the world was so Budman. Do you really believe that an employer will hire someone for $15 an hour, when he can pay someone $5 an hour for the same work.
5. I was commenting on a post that was posted earlier about shooting illegals as they come in. Read the previous posts, I saw that and thought it was a silly comment as well so I harped on that.
6. Federal immigration law is convoluted at best maddeningly confusing at worst. You're telling me that a local police officer should also know all about immigration law. Immigration s the federal government's responsibility for a reason. If states start dictating their own immigration policy soon you'll need a passport just to visit Arizona. Yes that's hyperbole but in a very real sense immigration law needs to be the same across the board. But ask yourself this, why is illegal immigration suddenly a big problem now? All of a sudden illegal immigration is a big deal when it wasn't before. It hasn't gotten any better or any worse, but it seems to me a political game where the finger had to be pointed at something or someone. Arizona went overboard because they took the right wing rhetoric of blaming illegals and made a law usurping the federal government. Is Arizona's immigration problem bigger than California's, or bigger than Texas' or New Mexico's. If you don't mind me asking what race are you? Racial profiling is a big deal and there is something inherently wrong in it.
7. You miss my point. I found it humorous that people were stating "illegal is illegal" and "what part of illegal don't you understand" on this board. These statement's seem holier than thou almost condescending about the person making that statement. That person is putting their own history at issue because they are claiming that any illegal act needs to be punished. You broke the law you pay the price is what I hear. Yet, and I'm assuming their on this board because they enjoy the hobby, they seem to say oh except when it comes to me, I'm exempt from my own beliefs. I found it hilarious the level of hypocrisy. You can have an opinion all you like about anything, including other laws being broken, just don't make ridiculous holier than thou statements when you have your own skeletons.
8. Previous posters were quick to say how they were proud Americans. I wanted to take them to task to see what made them proud of this country. You guys were lucky to be born here you could have been born in Cuba, or Iraq, or statistically in China. But by virtue of birth alone you are American. My point was that there are people who are not that lucky. They travel here some under the harshest conditions to have the opportunity some take for granted. Are they more deserving of citizenship? Of course not but I wanted to point out the flawed thinking that the American ideal and dream resides with just those born here. It resides in people who come hell or high water come here to live out that ideal and live out that dream. Isn't that what America is supposed to be about?

I think there are some great points made in this thread on both sides of the issue but there are a couple of game changers that must be addressed: 9/11 and the integration of violent Mexican gangs into areas such as L.A for the express purpose of moving drugs, are very real concerns.

The fact of the matter is we must know who is entering our country. It is estimated that twenty-four percent of the illegals in the country came in on legal visas and then went UTR. While a problem, at least we have information on who these people are and a way to identify them in case later information proves them to be dangerous.

One more thought, does anyone really think that Arizona has the resources to carry this policy through? It will either force changes on the Federal level or they will have to do what the Feds do now and try to focus on the most dangerous cases and let the rest slide.