A private forum for AA providers, hobbyists and the folks who see them.

? You making that statement is evidence you've bought into the scheme. Those white guys? yeah, they share 99.99% of their DNA with you. There is no genetic basis for the concept of race. It's a social construct that is no more valid for dividing people up than being a Dallas cowboys fan vs. a Denver Broncos fan is. They are both social constructs.

You're right, the guys that wrote the constitution weren't concerned about non-land holding individuals... but then again, no where on Earth in that day in age was any different. My great, great grandfather fought at Vicksburg, participated in Shermans march to the sea... I still have his saber, epaulets, and letters during his time in the Union Army. Name another nation that spilled as much blood to end the enslavement of a people.

Do "white males" bear the blame for an institution that's existed since the days of the pharoahs? And who exactly were these "white males" buying these slaves from in Africa? fucking Martians? This whole concept of collective guilt is horseshit... are Germans born today guilty because their grandparents tried to eliminate all the Jews in Europe? Of course not.. we don't carry the sins of our fathers in our blood - what the fuck is this stone age witchcraft thinking?

Anyway, this is all smoke and mirrors, to keep people like us from tearing down the banking industry that is in the process of impoverishing us all. And all of the politicians supporting it.

Dove only apologized because a bunch of people flipped there lid for no reason... if the black woman had been put last in the process, they'd have bitched about the order...women of color are always put last. These are professional grievance mongers that are making money off whining about meaningless crap. They are collaborating in dividing the citizens of the entire Country that all ought to be mad as fuck that a catastrophic illness could impoverish your entire family. That legions of kids aren't getting educated because it's easier to enslave an ignorant population than one that understands its rights. That drugs flow through the streets like fucking candy and destroy families and children's lives. That our prisons are full of non-violent offenders who are essentially condemned to rotate through prison again and again. That's the shit that ought to matter but they're fucking complaining because a black girl morphed into a white girl but not that the white girl morphed into a middle eastern girl. If we use that kind of logic isn't the ultimate message to black and white women that you're dirty compared to a Middle Eastern woman? No, because there's no play in that... there's no money, no power to be gained, no divisiveness to be created.

We 310 million folks on the rung below the banksters and politicians are all getting fucked and are too busy infighting to step back and see whats being done to us.... think about this... whether you like or don't like obamacare... Congress voted to exempt itself from the laws that apply to everyone else in this country. THEY THINK THEY ARE OUR FUCKING BETTERS! WTF?! Every last one of them ought to be put against a wall and shot for even considering it. Originally Posted by texassapper

MYTH: The civil war was not a battle to end slavery. The civil war was moreso about state's rights.

Also, I really don't think Abraham Lincoln gave two fucks about the slaves:

Do "white males" bear the blame for an institution that's existed since the days of the pharoahs? And who exactly were these "white males" buying these slaves from in Africa? fucking Martians? This whole concept of collective guilt is horseshit... are Germans born today guilty because their grandparents tried to eliminate all the Jews in Europe? Of course not.. we don't carry the sins of our fathers in our blood - what the fuck is this stone age witchcraft thinking? Originally Posted by texassapper

If you are suffering from white guilt, you remedy that by putting your white dollar into a black hand.

Actually, if one reads the Articles Of Secession from every Southern state which issued them slavery was typically mentioned on the first page, as well as the North not returning runaway slaves back to their ' owners '. Slavery was the main issues, tho handily disguised and spun to other issues. No question the war was all about slavery.

I have yet to break my chocolate cherry in the hobby. I haven't found an ebony provider with whom I feel connected to, as of yet. I will continue !

MYTH: The civil war was not a battle to end slavery. The civil war was more about state's rights. Originally Posted by Adrienne Baptiste

OK...which right did the Southern states want that the North did not? The Right to Keep humans in bondage. Read the actual secession documents. The Southern states mention in several places that exactly for example Mississippi "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery — the greatest material interest of the world"

Make no Mistake, for the South the war was about the right to keep the institution of slavery...and therefore for them the war was about slavery.

Also, I really don't think Abraham Lincoln gave two fucks about the slaves: Originally Posted by Adrienne Baptiste

You're right... for the North in the begining the war was about keeping the Union intact. But you're wrong about Lincoln, he was personally against the institution, but his first duty was towards the maintenance of existing law. He believed he had no legal authority to interfere in the internal affairs of the States... that's why when the emancipation proclamation was written it dealt only with States in Rebellion, because the Federal govt. had no legal authority within States not in Rebellion until the Constitution was modified by the 13th amendment. If you think he was for Slavey or didn't care, why do you think the South seceded when he won the election? Lincoln may not have thought blacks social equals but he did think them moral equals as he argued in the Lincoln Douglas debates:
"I agree with Judge Douglas he is not my equal in many respects—certainly not in color, perhaps not in moral or intellectual endowment. But in the right to eat the bread, without the leave of anybody else, which his own hand earns, he is my equal and the equal of Judge Douglas, and the equal of every living man."

Your own Lincoln quote backs that up. He was doing his Duty, but his personal belief was that everyone should be free.

But the goal of the war changed between 1861 and 1863... by the time of the victory at Gettysburg, the goal to simply maintain the Union as is, had become to end slavery. Abolitionism grew within the ranks of the Union army as more and more they Northerners were exposed to the conditions in which Southern slaves lived. Simply by issuing the Emancipation Proclamation, the war to reunite the Union became a war to end slavery. You won't find any quotes from Lincoln saying he didn't care about the slaves post proclamation.

TS, it's a red herring to link grubby "Banksters" and Politicians to a social issue. create a thread about those evils, I will participate.

I agree that some so-called racial arguments go overboard.. but you need to realize, too, that change comes from chipping away at old ideas and misconceptions.. even after change appears "won", you get random acts of backwardness, like this Dove ad.

AB is exactly right about the Civil War, and Lincoln. another Legend that could use some chipping away.

TS, it's a red herring to link grubby "Banksters" and Politicians to a social issue. create a thread about those evils, I will participate.

I agree that some so-called racial arguments go overboard.. but you need to realize, too, that change comes from chipping away at old ideas and misconceptions.. even after change appears "won", you get random acts of backwardness, like this Dove ad.

AB is exactly right about the Civil War, and Lincoln. another Legend that could use some chipping away. Originally Posted by Chung Tran

OK..you think the dove add was a backward step? explain the meaning of the white women morphing into the middle eastern woman... what is the message there if there was one about the black woman morphing into the white woman?

And you and AB are both exactly wrong about the Civil war and Lincoln... you've bought into the myths of the civil war...mostly perpetuated by white revisionists that don't want to accept that their fathers fought for slavery, and that war wasn't about slavery.

I am skeptical when I read how Lincoln opposed slavery.. Washington and Jefferson said the same, even while amassing the largest plantations on US soil.

I want to see a tanning salon advertisement where the white woman turns into a black woman.

Now that one would make sense.

I am skeptical when I read how Lincoln opposed slavery.. Washington and Jefferson said the same, even while amassing the largest plantations on US soil. Originally Posted by Chung Tran

I still can't believe that folks romanticized the Sally Hemmings and Thomas Jefferson story. Like, what other choice did she have?

Sex within the confines of slavery = rape.

I am skeptical when I read how Lincoln opposed slavery.. Washington and Jefferson said the same, even while amassing the largest plantations on US soil. Originally Posted by Chung Tran

Re: Washington & Jefferson: Well given the era in which they lived opposing something that they actually benefited from makes them rather enlightened. And the difference between them and Lincoln was that Lincoln never actually owned slaves nor benefited from it. He opposed slavery... it's why he was the Republican nominee in the first place, and he got there because of his rebuttal of Douglas in prior debates. The quote about saving the union if it meant keeping slaves in the South is accurate but it is taken out of context. Lincoln felt his duty as President was to the Law (would that all our Presidents felt that way) and the law at that time permitted slavery in the South. He favored preventing its extension but not interfering with the internal affairs of the individual States.

I still can't believe that folks romanticized the Sally Hemmings and Thomas Jefferson story. Like, what other choice did she have? Originally Posted by Adrienne Baptiste

Actually, she chose to remain a slave...

She became pregnant with Jefferson's child while in France... since France had outlawed slavery, she could have stayed there with her brother as a free person. Instead, she chose to return to the US as a slave with Jefferson if he promised to free their children when they reached the age of 21.

I think that speaks something about the relationship that had developed between them..but what a choice that must have been to make.

Actually, she chose to remain a slave...

She became pregnant with Jefferson's child while in France... since France had outlawed slavery, she could have stayed there with her brother as a free person. Instead, she chose to return to the US as a slave with Jefferson if he promised to free their children when they reached the age of 21.

I think that speaks something about the relationship that had developed between them..but what a choice that must have been to make. Originally Posted by texassapper

Again, what other choice did she have?

She didn't go to France on her free will, nor did she return on her free will. She was a slave. She was his property. She. Had. No. Choice.

Besides, if she would've stayed in France and bore his child, French society would've ate that shit up and made a mockery of it all.

Once Jefferson caught news that the 'pull out method' didn't work, it was time to get Sally the hell out of dodge, lol.

She didn't go to France on her free will, nor did she return on her free will. She was a slave. She was his property. She. Had. No. Choice. Originally Posted by Adrienne Baptiste

She might have been in the US, but on French soil that was not true. She OPTED to return with Jefferson to the US on the condition that her children be freed at age 21.

Slaves don't negotiate the terms of their bondage.

She may not have felt she had much choice, I'll agree. But she DID NOT HAVE TO return to the US at all. That was French law... a law that she was well aware of as was Jefferson.

What bills were voted on to end slavery before the start of the civil war?

What bills were voted on to end slavery before the start of the civil war? Originally Posted by goodolboy

There weren't any, the Southern States started the secession process before congress resumed session after Lincoln was elected. The congress lost 85 members