Evolution? Intelligent Design? God did it all in 7 days?

I believe God exists. I do not believe God created the heavens and earth. Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Talk about a fence sitter.

Yssup wins the prize again.

Ether would have to be accepted by faith my dear, that was my whole point... Originally Posted by bojulay

Science does NOT require faith. It only requires reasoning. That point you constantly miss.

... and it's obviously the way God wants it. Originally Posted by bojulay

Assuming he exists. And assuming he even talks to prophets if he does exist. And assuming the prophet's words were written down correctly and translated correctly.

Remember, he gets to make the rules. Originally Posted by bojulay

Assuming he exists.

Geez, there's thick and then there's...well. Originally Posted by bojulay

Let me complete it for you: "There's thick and then there's religious fundamentalism."

What dorkelheads like exinyur don't understand is that God isn't the one on trial here, we all are the ones on trial. I bet God pissis his pants every time laughing about that one. Originally Posted by bojulay

You may be wrong, but you're never doubtful, are you?

Science does NOT require faith. It only requires reasoning. That point you constantly miss.


Assuming he exists. And assuming he even talks to prophets if he does exist. And assuming the prophet's words were written down correctly and translated correctly.


Assuming he exists.


Let me complete it for you: "There's thick and then there's religious fundamentalism." Originally Posted by ExNYer

What a dingalduffus that can't be taught anything.
Science does require faith because there are many
things in science which can't be proven or haven't been
prove or can never be proven.

Let me at least try to explain it for you just a little bit,
I will try and keep it simple.

It is almost universally accepted that Jesus lived and was
crucified, certain claims were made by and about him that
were recorded in the bible, and there are certain things
that would lend credibility to what was said about him.

One being, would eleven of his disciples be willing to die
a terrible martyrs death for something they knew to be a lie.

If they stole his body, then claimed he was raised from the dead,
and went about all over making that claim, and were willing
to die for what they knew to be a lie.

You have to remember these were all Jewish men that believed in God
and believed that lying about such a thing would be a terrible sin,
and then be willing to die for that lie.

Under the Jewish Law that would have made them the most grievous heretics.

It is pretty obvious to me that they believed what they claimed.
Still would have to be accepted by faith though.

Scientist don't know where the first living organism came from,
how it got here or how it started, all they have are some unproven,
and/or unprovable ideas about how it happened. So therefore
the way it occurred according to their ideas would have to be
accepted by faith just the same as any religious idea.

Talk about a fence sitter.

Yssup wins the prize again. Originally Posted by bojulay

Not every religion or group shares the Judeo-Christian view of God, creation, life, etc.

Are you saying that the belief in the existence of God is to buy into every word of bullshit written in Old Testament?

You're a fucking imbecile, bouljay.

Science does NOT require faith. It only requires reasoning. That point you constantly miss.


Assuming he exists. And assuming he even talks to prophets if he does exist. And assuming the prophet's words were written down correctly and translated correctly.


Assuming he exists.


Let me complete it for you: "There's thick, there's religious fundamentalism, there's people who worship Elvis and then there's atheism." Originally Posted by ExNYer

Fixed it for you.

What a dingalduffus that can't be taught anything.
Science does require faith because there are many
things in science which can't be proven or haven't been
prove or can never be proven.

Let me at least try to explain it for you just a little bit,
I will try and keep it simple.

It is almost universally accepted that Jesus lived and was
crucified, certain claims were made by and about him that
were recorded in the bible, and there are certain things
that would lend credibility to what was said about him.

One being, would eleven of his disciples be willing to die
a terrible martyrs death for something they knew to be a lie.

If they stole his body, then claimed he was raised from the dead,
and went about all over making that claim, and were willing
to die for what they knew to be a lie.

You have to remember these were all Jewish men that believed in God
and believed that lying about such a thing would be a terrible sin,
and then be willing to die for that lie.

It is pretty obvious to me that they believed what they claimed.
Still would have to be accepted by faith though.

Scientist don't know where the first living organism came from,
how it got here or how it started, all they have are some unproven,
and/or unprovable ideas about how it happened. So therefore
the way it occurred according to their ideas would have to be
accepted by faith just the same as any religious idea. Originally Posted by bojulay

You seem to miss the point altogether... You apply the way you've been programmed to learn about the world, through a rigid and thick "logic", to an area that is exactly the opposite. Scientists will say "well, we don't know how organisms exist, but someday we will" -- even if they thought that eventuality would be finding a "creator".

Your loving god will smite you and send you to a fiery hell if you were that flexible about your point of view!

What a dingalduffus that can't be taught anything.
Science does require faith because there are many
things in science which can't be proven or haven't been
prove or can never be proven.

Let me at least try to explain it for you just a little bit,
I will try and keep it simple.

It is almost universally accepted that Jesus lived and was
crucified, certain claims were made by and about him that
were recorded in the bible, and there are certain things
that would lend credibility to what was said about him.

One being, would eleven of his disciples be willing to die
a terrible martyrs death for something they knew to be a lie.

If they stole his body, then claimed he was raised from the dead,
and went about all over making that claim, and were willing
to die for what they knew to be a lie.

You have to remember these were all Jewish men that believed in God
and believed that lying about such a thing would be a terrible sin,
and then be willing to die for that lie.

It is pretty obvious to me that they believed what they claimed.
Still would have to be accepted by faith though.

Scientist don't know where the first living organism came from,
how it got here or how it started, all they have are some unproven,
and/or unprovable ideas about how it happened. So therefore
the way it occurred according to their ideas would have to be
accepted by faith just the same as any religious idea. Originally Posted by bojulay

You're right, the fact that Jesus' disciples were willing to die rather that recant their testimony is powerful evidence of their sincerity. These were men who talked to Jesus after the resurrection and saw his wounds. All of the disciples, except for John, were put to death for their faith.

You're right, the fact that Jesus' disciples were willing to die rather that recant their testimony is powerful evidence of their sincerity. These were men who talked to Jesus after the resurrection and saw his wounds. All of the disciples, except for John, were put to death for their faith. Originally Posted by joe bloe

Muslim extremists do the same thing. So what? Fanatics will be sincere to the end. And they do it in style.

Besides, what loving god is willing to let these people die for him? Slaughter people by the millions in his name? "he gave us free will" Fuck that. People who are supposed to teach our children, are fondling and fucking them up? And then allowing the VATICAN to come in with a coverup? Seriously?

"Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.

Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have." - Penn Jillette

What a dingalduffus that can't be taught anything. Science does require faith because there are many things in science which can't be proven or haven't been prove or can never be proven.
Once again, you have the mentality of the fundamentalist on display. Everything is black and white and there is nothing in between. So, if science can't explain everything 100%, then it must be false and therefore God exists. Once again, this is bullshit. Science deals in probabilities and tries to develop theories to explain the natural world. If parts of a theory are shown to be wrong, science works to correct it. If parts of a theory are missing, science works to find the missing pieces. Religion doesn't do any of that.

So no, science does NOT rely on faith no matter how many time you try to make it look like religion. In fact, scientists actively work to disprove theories. Only when a theory stands up to refutation does it become more and more accepted as the correct explanation. That is the way the serious scientific mind works. Tell me, when was the last time a Biblical scholar ever actively worked to disprove Scripture?

Let me at least try to explain it for you just a little bit, I will try and keep it simple. None of what follows explains anything. The mistaken beliefs of one man and the extreme actions he takes based on those mistaken beliefs does not make the beliefs true.

It is almost universally accepted that Jesus lived and was crucified, certain claims were made by and about him that were recorded in the bible, and there are certain things that would lend credibility to what was said about him.
It is almost universally accepted that Mohammed lived, certain claims were made by and about him that were recorded in the Quran, and there are certain things that would lend credibility to what was said about him.

One being, would eleven of his disciples be willing to die a terrible martyrs death for something they knew to be a lie.
One being, would so many of his disciples be willing to die in battle against the Christians and Jews of the 7 Century Middle East for something they knew to be a lie?

If they stole his body, then claimed he was raised from the dead, and went about all over making that claim, and were willing to die for what they knew to be a lie.
If they claimed the archangel Gabriel supposedly appeared to Mohammed and that Mohammed's revelations were the last and perfect word of God that replaced all others, including Christian teaching, and went all over making that claim and were willing to die for what they knew to be a lie.

You have to remember these were all Jewish men that believed in God and believed that lying about such a thing would be a terrible sin, and then be willing to die for that lie.
You have to remember these were all Muslim men that believed in God and believed that lying about such a thing would be a terrible sin, and then be willing to die for that lie.

Under the Jewish Law that would have made them the most grievous heretics.
Under the Islamic Law that would have made them the most grievous heretics.

It is pretty obvious to me that they believed what they claimed. Still would have to be accepted by faith though.
It is pretty obvious to me that those ancient Muslims believed what they claimed. Still would have to be accepted by faith though.

Scientist don't know where the first living organism came from, how it got here or how it started, all they have are some unproven, and/or unprovable ideas about how it happened. So therefore the way it occurred according to their ideas would have to be accepted by faith just the same as any religious idea.
See my answer above about faith and science. Originally Posted by bojulay

So I guess the 9-11 hijackers were right then? They certainly died for their beliefs. Are you going to become a Muslim now?

Back to you, Preacher Bo.

You're right, the fact that Jesus' disciples were willing to die rather that recant their testimony is powerful evidence of their sincerity. These were men who talked to Jesus after the resurrection and saw his wounds. All of the disciples, except for John, were put to death for their faith. Originally Posted by joe bloe

You can say the exact same thing about a lot of Muslim martyrs.

It doesn't make their bullshit any truer either.

Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have." - Penn Jillette Originally Posted by forumguy456987

you gotta believe in Jell-O...

Muslim extremists do the same thing. So what? Originally Posted by forumguy456987

Bastard. You beat me to it.

Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have." - Penn Jillette Originally Posted by forumguy456987

you gotta believe in Jell-O... Originally Posted by JCM800

I'm going to go with the belief in sex.

It's the only thing that makes me cry out to God...

Muslim extremists do the same thing. So what? Fanatics will be sincere to the end. And they do it in style.

Besides, what loving god is willing to let these people die for him? Slaughter people by the millions in his name? "he gave us free will" Fuck that. People who are supposed to teach our children, are fondling and fucking them up? And then allowing the VATICAN to come in with a coverup? Seriously?

"Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.

Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have." - Penn Jillette Originally Posted by forumguy456987

Wrong! Jesus disciples would have known they were promoting
and then dying for a lie. Maybe what would be the biggest lie in history.

Was there ever any Muslim Extremest that believed he was dying for a lie.