Friends or not friends?

I hang out with a few clients and have become close to a couple. It is kind of nice to not have to hide this part of my life as I do with my "civilian" friends and family.

Unfortunately, a couple of times I had to set the rules and advise that because we hang out or go to dinner doesn't mean they get a free session. One of them no longer call even to hang out, so I can see he was only after a freebie. Originally Posted by gigi_gypsy

You find out real quick who has the ulterior motives and who is the true friend. The ones in friends with have never even had to tell me what the boundaries are.....it's simply a matter of respect.

You find out real quick who has the ulterior motives and who is the true friend. The ones in friends with have never even had to tell me what the boundaries are.....it's simply a matter of respect. Originally Posted by Eccie Addict

Respect - so very true. I couldn't have said it better

Respect - so very true. I couldn't have said it better Originally Posted by gigi_gypsy

+1

Yes..being friends with a provider is a sticky situation because you are allowing them a look into each others lives and the more personal it becomes the more information is given back and forth to each other.
It is good to get to know someone but along with it comes a responsiblilty to keep this information a secret between you and the way you work out the details of a friendship are the same as you have with a civilian friend but you still have this one big secret you each share.
Most of the time you cannot allow yourself to see them in public because of one of your situations because someone else might slip up and say hey thats so and so with you.
Most of us have our own lives outside of the hobby and prefer to keep it that way and its hard to juggle a friendship with the hobby.
Its alot like being swingers and you may see a couple youve been with before in public and sometimes you cannot approach them because of how you met them.
as far as freebies go...that is a no-no because you dont ask someone in the real world for free stuff and you dont do it in the hobby that is called respect.
I have friends who own their own businesses and i would never think of walking into their places and saying hey we are friends why don you let me come in here for free
because thats just not the way its done.
Now if you have a friend who has something you need and they have something you want then you might trade out but if you try to do this with sex you are going to get burned somewhere down the line because you are trading something very personal
and the value you put on it then crosses the line of friendship.
YOU CANT SELL FRIENDSHIP...so no freebies ..no bartering..no trading out ..not when it comes to something so personal as another persons time.
Working all of this out is a tough thing to do .. so if you want to be friends it has to work both ways and you both must respect each other first and then proceed with caution.

From reading the replies, it would seem that this issue can be very tricky both emotionally and pragmatically, so I probably will take your advice about maintaining some emotional distance. However, I will not change how I treat and interact with other people - I'll just try to maintain some perspective in so doing. It seems that being devoid of, or trying to be devoid of feelings would lessen the experience. Thanks to everyone for your input.

MFS Originally Posted by KobCel

I am not as experienced as many who have replied to this..and until recently hadn't met a provider I'd even remotely consider it a possibility with (being 'friends' in some sense). But I did, and my thinking so far has been along these lines: in the real world, in my job, I have had many biz relationships develop into long-term friendships. In some cases, I was the client, and in others my eventual friend was the client. In no case did the friendship result in me expecting free services or vice-versa. However, in some cases, when I liked the client, I might've been willing to do a project for 30k instead of 40k because I liked working w that client; I think it has also gone the other way....and when competing projects have beckoned, e.g. an opportunity to do a project for someone I really like working with for 35k and an a-hole who is offering 40k for a similar project at the same time, I am more likely to go for the 35k and more pleasant experience.

I imagine the hobby is no different...except that in some minds sex can take a friendship into romantic-entanglement land, and that is where the true risk lies, esp for all the men here who have SOs and wives. So I would say no prob w friendship, its the romance part you really ought to stay away from (unless you are open to that).

I have friends who own their own businesses and i would never think of walking into their places and saying hey we are friends why don you let me come in here for free
because thats just not the way its done.
Now if you have a friend who has something you need and they have something you want then you might trade out but if you try to do this with sex you are going to get burned somewhere down the line because you are trading something very personal
and the value you put on it then crosses the line of friendship. Originally Posted by wildwooly1

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So I completely agree w the first point (no freebies expected, ever) but not with the second (no bartering). Example: suppose I am a dentist and my provider needs 2 root canals. Whats the difference between me doing her root canals, she paying me $1500, then me paying her back that $1500 for an overnight vs simply bartering the 2 services? The only difference I can think of is the IRS is involved in the first (at least on the root canal side) but the other way there is no paper trail to get taxed on. Ditto if I am a financial planner and my provider needs investment advice, or I am a tax accountant and my provider needs to file her biz taxes, or I am a car mechanic and my provider needs her car fixed up. The bartering point is independent of friendship. You do not have to be friends for bartering to make sense for IRS avoidance. If you are friends, it doesnt make bartering make more or less sense, except to the extent that trust is required for a barter transaction (since once service will come first, and then the second, and the person who gets the service second has to trust that they wont get jipped, whereas w cash they can go take that cash and do anything they want w any other provider too).

Eb,
you are still missing one point...you are trading for something very personal ..a providers time and her services are her personality and body.
How do you put a price on something like that without hurting someones feelings and yes I know she has a rate but again when it gets right down to it will she have the same attitude torward you if you try to barter or trade for something so personal.
Friends dont do friends that way...so now you are no longer friends you are just 2 individuals trying to work out a business deal.
Providers are humans with integrity,respect, and feelings just like anybody else so again you cannot Sell Friendship without losing respect and if you loose respect there is no friendship.

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So I completely agree w the first point (no freebies expected, ever) but not with the second (no bartering). Example: suppose I am a dentist and my provider needs 2 root canals. Whats the difference between me doing her root canals, she paying me $1500, then me paying her back that $1500 for an overnight vs simply bartering the 2 services? The only difference I can think of is the IRS is involved in the first (at least on the root canal side) but the other way there is no paper trail to get taxed on. Ditto if I am a financial planner and my provider needs investment advice, or I am a tax accountant and my provider needs to file her biz taxes, or I am a car mechanic and my provider needs her car fixed up. The bartering point is independent of friendship. You do not have to be friends for bartering to make sense for IRS avoidance. If you are friends, it doesnt make bartering make more or less sense, except to the extent that trust is required for a barter transaction (since once service will come first, and then the second, and the person who gets the service second has to trust that they wont get jipped, whereas w cash they can go take that cash and do anything they want w any other provider too). Originally Posted by eb

IDK about dentists or accountants (unless they are tax attorneys), but attorney are prevented by the Code of Ethics from having sex with a client, even in a bartering system (or more precisely, especially in a bartering system b/c the attorney would be engaging in illegal conduct). To do so would be to risk his/her license to practice law.

The same does not hold true with non-clients. Whether or not the attorney risks his/her license when visiting with an escort depends on the situation and the charges.

attorney are prevented by the Code of Ethics from having sex with a client, even in a bartering system (or more precisely, especially in a bartering system b/c the attorney would be engaging in illegal conduct). To do so would be to risk his/her license to practice law.
. Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Damn!...I guess I should probably make sure my attorney is aware of this!

When people start "expecting" anything other then respect then you, in a sense, have an ulterior motive. When you decide to become someone's friend it's suppose to be for them not for you. I don't mean this as in you are supposed to be a doormat for someone but friendship is about caring about someone and wanting what's best for them and vice versa.... It's a commitment. We should be willing to admit when we wrong our friends and we should be more forgiving of our friends. We should be willing to communicate with our friends so that they know when they have hurt is so that they know that they have and give them the opportunity to make ammends...... As I said before, it's a lot of work. Sometimes your true friend may be someone you don't even like but they truly have your interest at heart.

Some good points were brought up... like freebies.

we should not expect a freebie, but what if the lady and you became really close friends and she offered one to you? Do you accept and if so does she have right to ask for $$$ at a later date?

I am not saying she cannot have sex with whom ever she wants but if a friend knows she is a provider and that her "time is money" then that friend will always be on edge not knowing when she is in friend mode and hanging out or "provider mode" and things might have a cost.

Yes bartering can be a factor, EG: she needs computer work, and I can do the work for her.

We would have to agree on a set rate for barter. if her hourly rate is say 200, and my rates are 100 an hour, then either I perform 2 hours of work on her (unless the job is a fixed rate job like building and configuring a new PC, She would buy the parts, and the assembly and set up is a static price)

Bottom line to me is never use sex to create a friendship and never expect sex from a friendship

Communication is key to any lasting relationship....friends, family, business, romantic ect. ect..... Communication, respect, trust, open mind and forgiveness are all key in building and maintaining any type of relationship.

Yes bartering can be a factor, EG: she needs computer work, and I can do the work for her.

We would have to agree on a set rate for barter. if her hourly rate is say 200, and my rates are 100 an hour, then either I perform 2 hours of work on her (unless the job is a fixed rate job like building and configuring a new PC, She would buy the parts, and the assembly and set up is a static price) Originally Posted by Spirit13

Yeah, we had a bartering thread around here somewhere. Ed probably ate it.

Bottom line to me is never use sex to create a friendship and never expect sex from a friendship Originally Posted by Spirit13

These are known as marriages.

seems like the ladies are okay with befriend a client.....best of both worlds when it works out. what about when the guy or girl gets to attached? how do you severe ties? how do you go back to the client/provider exchange?

I wouldn't say friendship but I have an awsome relationship with some of my clients. I really care about them, they trust me...Trust me enough to let me hold their wallet when they go to the restroom lol.