RIP

Gemma, from your post in the KC Metro sandbox regarding Ali:

"Here is a man that refused to serve his country cause he said the white people were his enemy."

At the time that Ali "made" these quotes, he WAS, speaking the truth. A white person who was not "racist" or "against" him and other black people was the anomaly. In the 50's and 60's, black people were "2nd class" or worse. I respectfully suggest that were he alive today, his views may be different. If not, then he is a part of what is wrong with our society. Does the fact that he was speaking the truth about our society at that time, make him a bad guy? Is it probable that he should have and would have known that 60-70 years later things would have been different? I don't mean to insinuate anything with regards to where you stand on the issue. But he, Bill Russell, Jesse Owens, Jim brown, Ray Charles, and many others were socially active at that time and dared stand against how America was towards people of color at that time. Their views were accurate. If they still feel the way today that they did then, I would whole heartedly stand against their view as things are not the same today. The same as I would stand against a white person saying that it was not the case back then. Today, it IS more of a case by case situation and you can't make genarlized statements like that. But back then, you could because it was true.

Just one black man's opinion.

Be well dear. Have fun and stay sexy. Hopefully our paths will cross one day. 😃

Wow had no idea he died.... I was literally just watching a bunch of muhammed ali highlights and interviews for funzees like a week ago.

In my view, this man's character and sacrifice are beyond reproach. And he just so happened to be the "GOAT." Originally Posted by Cleo

in what examples?

Ali was a great boxer,quite possibly the best of all time. Does that make him a hero? To some maybe. He did some very good things in his life,but to me others gave much more. Originally Posted by WMJ4657

yeah, he's a great boxes, but a hero?> no

https://youtu.be/8PaoLy7PHwk



"Fight The Power"

1989 the number another summer (get down)
Sound of the funky drummer
Music hittin' your heart cause I know you got sould
(Brothers and sisters, hey)
Listen if you're missin' y'all
Swingin' while I'm singin'
Givin' whatcha gettin'
Knowin' what I know
While the Black bands sweatin'
And the rhythm rhymes rollin'
Got to give us what we want
Gotta give us what we need
Our freedom of speech is freedom or death
We got to fight the powers that be
Lemme hear you say
Fight the power

[Chorus]

As the rhythm designed to bounce
What counts is that the rhymes
Designed to fill your mind
Now that you've realized the prides arrived
We got to pump the stuff to make us tough
from the heart
It's a start, a work of art
To revolutionize make a change nothin's strange
People, people we are the same
No we're not the same
Cause we don't know the game
What we need is awareness, we can't get careless
You say what is this?
My beloved lets get down to business
Mental self defensive fitness
(Yo) bum rush the show
You gotta go for what you know
Make everybody see, in order to fight the powers that be
Lemme hear you say...
Fight the Power

[Chorus]

Elvis was a hero to most
But he never meant shit to me you see
Straight up racist that sucker was
Simple and plain
Mother fuck him and John Wayne
Cause I'm Black and I'm proud
I'm ready and hyped plus I'm amped
Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamps
Sample a look back you look and find
Nothing but rednecks for 400 years if you check
Don't worry be happy
Was a number one jam
Damn if I say it you can slap me right here
(Get it) lets get this party started right
Right on, c'mon
What we got to say
Power to the people no delay
To make everybody see
In order to fight the powers that be

(Fight the Power)

It's God, Corp, Country right? Oh hell, I'm a guy that uses the handle of the symbol of capitalism and the avatar of violent socialism... I can see how a soldier would be offended by a contentious objector. Completely legitimate, while guys suited up for America with little fanfare, people were misdirecting anger towards the hero soldier while their distain should of been aimed at politicians and business interests. However, the other point of view is undeniable as well. As one of the few racially diverse celebrities at the time, his draft dodging did a lot to affect the civil rights movement(he couldn't figure out why Vietnam was an important cause to African Americans who needed to fight for their own rights vs foreign geo politics). I'll leave my thoughts there at a contradiction.
Objectively, Ali was a master competitor studied by all athletes, politicians, and strategists for his mastery of strategy and execution. Shit, the Havard Business Review did an in depth analysis of the Foreman/Ali fight(Rumble in the Jungle) that is a mainstay for almost every 1st year MBA student. Hell, I am 100 percent positive that Donald Trump is a student of Ali(look it up) and he used the Ali style to roll to the GOP nomination. I guess I am saying he's a hero to some a traitor to others but you cannot say he was just a boxer. The dude stirred shit up like no one before and copied since...

Here is a man that refused to serve his country cause he said the white people were his enemy. Originally Posted by Gemma34

And Donny Drumph had his reasons too. And there are and have been others too, so what? Free country, remember?

RIP
Mohammed ali

Always draggin' his 3-word agendas onto the board!

Cut out all that passive aggressive bullshit. I simply stated "really..." No need to explain to me why you feel this way. Really we all know you just say stuff to say it and try to fit in but none the less, here's the facts!

Here is a man that refused to serve his country cause he said the white people were his enemy.

I served my country as well as many others. I find him to be a coward. No hero of mine. Originally Posted by Gemma34

Are you educated on what was going on in this country during the time Ali decided to forgo the draft? Black men and women where 2nd class citizens and those who stood up for equal rights where being beat, attacked by police dogs, and in the very worse cases hung by their necks in trees.

Yes Gemma, from his perspective at that time in history I can see why he felt that Whites and the government were his enemy. Would you fight for a country if it was brutalizing your friends and family based on the color of their skin? What Muhhammed Ali did was very brave. He faced death threats every day, sacrificed his career at the peak of his performance and served time in prison because he stayed true to his convictions.

To call him a coward tells me that you have not truly done your research on this man. You have a right to your opinion, and I'm not trying to change how you feel, but please take time to be more informed. Be well.

Tha fuck are you talking about how you gonna ask a man to fight and die for your country for no reason in a time where you would not even treat him like a human being fuck outta here every soldier that knew it was wrong should have opposed the war. Originally Posted by hayesc0

You must be very young, to know so little! There was a draft where a lot of guys had to go. There was no choice. In my home town the draft went from two or three per month to about 25. Everyone in my age group was going. Married guys were later given an exception based on more than one child. A lot of guys rushed into marriage to try to avoid the draft. I had my student deferment pulled because I already had a BS. They said one degree was enough after one year of graduate school where I was an instructor. I served in the Marine Corps, but was much luckier than most of the guys because with my technical education enabled me to completed the electronics qualifications - testing out during boot camp. I got a good position. But, the guys taken out of high school, they got sent to combat.

Oppose the war from inside the military. You don't know about the military justice system. It is not the same as the civilian court system. Your statement is just silly.
Flee to Canada, not practical for most people. Dream on!

Blacks mistreated in the military, not often; I served beside some of the best friends I have ever met - and they were back.

"...fight and die for your country for no reason" Hey guy, there is never a good enough reason to fight and die. You just learn to do your job. Sometimes life is what it is. You do your best with what you have.

I do have first hand knowledge that some of the antiwar protests in the US were funded and organized by North Vietnam. No one with any knowledge of the situation can doubt that there were full time non-student antiwar organizers on many college campus, especially the public universities. Many of the private colleges did not see much in the way of anti-war discussions. Yes there were exceptions, but to anyone who can read, and understand. The North Vietnam were very proficient at affecting the opinion of the american people about the war. Things are not always as they seem. Propaganda and derogatory information are most effective when it is not obvious.

I personally never figured out how CC avoided being sent to jail for refusing the draft. Elvis served his duty when called. What made CC so different from the rest of us?

Somehow his big mouth attracted a lot of support, as well as lack of support. Strange. I had a co worker that was going on about how great CC was and that he would win within 3 rounds; so I made him a bet and won $20. I said the fight would go all 15 rounds and that CC would loose in a decision if it went all 15 rounds. A lot of those officials did not care for CC because of his mouth. So a decision was not a far off guess.

My co worker accepted even money just for win or loose. Totally didn't believe it could go to a decision.

I should have bet more, but the guy was not a betting man - really. But back than $20 was worth more than $20 today.

JR

I honor those OUTSTANDING men & women on multiple occasions annually & have since I can remember.
In fact
Did so just last weekend.
My fond memories of Muhammad Ali.. In NO WAY DILUTES my passion for My COUNTRY'S HEROES.. both MEN & WOMEN
I have heroes for EVERY category in MY LIFE.
& I can just guarantee you ...you may not even know , acknowledge or agree with any or all.
That's where the term "MY" is not a debatable issue ..really. Originally Posted by Savannah Moon

So, any chance of a a discount for a Disabled Vet?

JR

Are you educated on what was going on in this country during the time Ali decided to forgo the draft? Black men and women where 2nd class citizens and those who stood up for equal rights where being beat, attacked by police dogs, and in the very worse cases hung by their necks in trees.
....
I'm not trying to change how you feel, but please take time to be more informed. Be well. Originally Posted by Agreen7

A lot of emotion here; but I lived through that time. I don't recall any hanging of blacks after 1960. The 20's and 30s is a different question. Just don't know, so I tried to look it up. There were problems, and I served by helping to organize and correct some of these problems.

History is not served by exaggerated and uncontrollable emotion. It is always difficult to change society, but change always happens. The key for change is what unites us, not what separates us.

The 60's were a time of great change. The biggest one was the admission of blacks into college. Which was the time it took after Brown vs the Board of Education (Kansas) for the black students to complete high school (from the beginning - not dropped in at a higher grade level) and reach the time for their college admission. My high school class had blacks in it and we all got along. But there were struggles in many places. But the worst of these took place in a short period of time, while others still exist to this day.

Just looking at the other side of the coin here.

The discussion is open.

JR

JR, for an allegedly intelligent man, you don't always do much to further your cause.(thinks to self..."good lawd it's getting harder to be respectful of some people")

And I could care less if you agree...I Originally Posted by Savannah Moon

are you saying you
DON"T CARE
or
that you care a lot and could care less?

so you do care?
that's what you said, if that's what you meant is a different story

JR, for an allegedly intelligent man, you don't always do much to further your cause.(thinks to self..."good lawd it's getting harder to be respectful of some people") Originally Posted by Cleo

Let's all chip in and help write JR a checklist for whether or not he should post something...

I'll start.

1. Should I lecture people of color about the Civil Rights movement?

2. Is my avatar a White Wizard?

y'all finish....