Well SpeedRacer, I guess I'm stuck in the middle with you, if you remember that old tune by Stealers Wheel. Originally Posted by Tiny"Well, I don't know why I came here tonight
"Well, I don't know why I came here tonightSounds like a fitting description of Trump when he looks around at his staff meetings.
I got the feeling that something ain't right
I'm so scared in case I fall off my chair
And I'm wondering how I'll get down the stairs
Clowns to the left of me
Jokers to the right
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you"
AOC a clown ???? as others in the left
"Well, I don't know why I came here tonightIn eccieuser's absence, I'm compelled to provide a link,
I got the feeling that something ain't right
I'm so scared in case I fall off my chair
And I'm wondering how I'll get down the stairs
Clowns to the left of me
Jokers to the right
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you"
AOC a clown ???? as others in the left
Sounds like a fitting description of Trump when he looks around at his staff meetings. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXXThere are certain choices in life that should be obvious Speedracer. You can be a clown or a joker. You want to be the joker, not the clown!
..."The normalization of donnys behavior and criminality..."
The normalization of Trump’s behavior and criminality is what allows discussions like these to “make sense.”
... Originally Posted by Yssup Rider
Just like Joe had ???? Originally Posted by offshoredrillingYeah. According to the googly thing, here is the summation:
I would hope that if AOC got into office, she would have a competent team of fiscal experts to guide the steering of the economy. Originally Posted by Precious_bThat's the problem Precious_b, she wouldn't. Her favorite "fiscal expert" is Stephane Kelton, who believes deficits don't matter. There's a pretty good chance if she got her way that the USA would end up with hyperinflation. Here's what Google gives me when I enter "AOC Stephane Kelton".
That's the problem Precious_b, she wouldn't. Her favorite "fiscal expert" is Stephane Kelton, who believes deficits don't matter. There's a pretty good chance if she got her way that the USA would end up with hyperinflation. Here's what Google gives me when I enter "AOC Stephane Kelton".Thanks tiny. I'll check that out.
Economist Stephanie Kelton and Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) are closely linked through their promotion of Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) to support progressive policy goals.
Key Connection: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
AOC has been a high-profile proponent of MMT, which Kelton—a Stony Brook University professor and former advisor to Bernie Sanders—is a leading expert on.
Funding Progressive Goals: AOC has cited MMT principles to argue that the U.S. government can afford large-scale programs like the Green New Deal or universal healthcare without strictly "paying for" them through immediate tax increases.
The "Oprah Effect": Kelton credited AOC with bringing MMT into the mainstream, noting that AOC’s comments created an "Oprah effect" that caused public interest and Google searches for the theory to spike.
Collaborations: The two appeared together on the podcast Deconstructed in March 2020 to discuss using MMT-informed strategies to save the U.S. economy during the COVID-19 pandemic.
Core Shared Ideas
Deficit Spending: Both argue that federal deficits are not inherently dangerous for a country that issues its own currency (like the U.S.).
Inflation as the Real Limit: Rather than being limited by a "budget," Kelton and AOC argue that the only real constraint on government spending is the risk of inflation, which occurs when the economy’s resources (labor and materials) are fully utilized.
Taxes' Real Purpose: In their view, taxes are not needed to "fund" the government but are instead tools to control inflation and address wealth inequality.
Critical Reception
While their collaboration has energized progressives, it has faced significant pushback from mainstream economists and political rivals. Critics argue that MMT-based policies risk causing hyperinflation and that relying on the government to "print money" for massive social programs is economically irresponsible.
"Taxes aren't needed to fund the government." What kind of hocus pocus is that? Originally Posted by Tiny
That's the problem Precious_b, she wouldn't. Her favorite "fiscal expert" is Stephane Kelton, who believes deficits don't matter. There's a pretty good chance if she got her way that the USA would end up with hyperinflation. Here's what Google gives me when I enter "AOC Stephane Kelton".That doesn’t sound a lot different than what we’ve gotten under Bush Jr and Trump.
Economist Stephanie Kelton and Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) are closely linked through their promotion of Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) to support progressive policy goals.
Key Connection: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
AOC has been a high-profile proponent of MMT, which Kelton—a Stony Brook University professor and former advisor to Bernie Sanders—is a leading expert on.
Funding Progressive Goals: AOC has cited MMT principles to argue that the U.S. government can afford large-scale programs like the Green New Deal or universal healthcare without strictly "paying for" them through immediate tax increases.
The "Oprah Effect": Kelton credited AOC with bringing MMT into the mainstream, noting that AOC’s comments created an "Oprah effect" that caused public interest and Google searches for the theory to spike.
Collaborations: The two appeared together on the podcast Deconstructed in March 2020 to discuss using MMT-informed strategies to save the U.S. economy during the COVID-19 pandemic.
Core Shared Ideas
Deficit Spending: Both argue that federal deficits are not inherently dangerous for a country that issues its own currency (like the U.S.).
Inflation as the Real Limit: Rather than being limited by a "budget," Kelton and AOC argue that the only real constraint on government spending is the risk of inflation, which occurs when the economy’s resources (labor and materials) are fully utilized.
Taxes' Real Purpose: In their view, taxes are not needed to "fund" the government but are instead tools to control inflation and address wealth inequality.
Critical Reception
While their collaboration has energized progressives, it has faced significant pushback from mainstream economists and political rivals. Critics argue that MMT-based policies risk causing hyperinflation and that relying on the government to "print money" for massive social programs is economically irresponsible.
"Taxes aren't needed to fund the government." What kind of hocus pocus is that? Originally Posted by Tiny
Thanks tiny. I'll check that out.Oh, but it has been tested on a smaller scale Precious_b:
Just a knee jerk thought on it. I would not be opposed to test this theory on a smaller scale to see how things react to it.
And your last sentence, you don't think that Zimbabwe monetary policy that a previous poster youtubed would work?
That doesn’t sound a lot different than what we’ve gotten under Bush Jr and Trump.You conveniently omitted Obama and Biden. In fact, the closest we've gotten to an MMT experiment in the USA was during Biden's term. And the American people and the Democratic Party paid for it. I'd speculate that if it weren't for the resulting inflation, Trump wouldn't have been elected president last year.
Low taxes, massive deficit spending and no real attempt to reduce spending.
The biggest difference that I can see is that AOC wants to actually tax rich people. Originally Posted by txdot-guy
Oh, but it has been tested on a smaller scale Precious_b:Yeah, AOC seems to trumpet Bernie on spending. And i'm not a fan of it.
It turns out that MMT — or some version of it — has been tried in a number of emerging countries. Although most cases have taken place in Latin America, there have also been episodes in other parts of the world, including in Turkey and Israel. MMT-type policies were also attempted in France during the Mitterrand presidency. Almost every one of the Latin American experiments with major central bank–financed fiscal expansions took place under populist regimes, and all of them ended up badly, with runaway inflation, huge currency devaluations, and precipitous real wage declines. In most of these episodes — Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Peru, and Venezuela — policymakers used arguments similar to those made by MMTers to justify extensive use of money creation to finance very large increases in public expenditures.
https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/fa...-latin-america
I didn't see the Zimbabwe video but suspect it's a good example. Originally Posted by Tiny
You conveniently omitted Obama and Biden. In fact, the closest we've gotten to an MMT experiment in the USA was during Biden's term. And the American people and the Democratic Party paid for it. I'd speculate that if it weren't for the resulting inflation, Trump wouldn't have been elected president last year.I didn’t include Obama because he had to deal with the mortgage meltdown and a congress who insisted cutting spending would be good for the economy in the middle of a recession.
You don't have to take my word for it. Lawrence Summers and Paul Krugman think MMT is voodoo. Both as you know are Democrats. And Krugman is about as partisan and far left as you can get for an economist without being looney tunes.
And yeah, AOC doesn't like rich people. She wants everyone poor. If she can get everyone sucking from the government tit then the Democratic Socialists will rule the roost. Originally Posted by Tiny
I didn’t include Obama because he had to deal with the mortgage meltdown and a congress who insisted cutting spending would be good for the economy in the middle of a recession.Correct, AOC doesn't want everyone to be poor. That's hyperbole. She does want people to be more dependent on government. When most people are doing well, her class warfare rhetoric just doesn't cut it with mainstream America.
Biden had to deal with the pandemic.
But I agree with you that MMT is voodoo economics. Just like thinking that cutting taxes would increase revenue enough to offset the budget deficit. It never happens.
Mitt Romney just wrote a good opinion piece in the Times in which he talks about the need to cut tax loopholes and overhaul the Social Security program.
https://archive.ph/czOPV
Mitt Romney: Tax the Rich, Like Me
Here’s a telling quote from the article.
Of course, a much faster-growing economy would save us from the debt cliff. This truism has long rationalized politicians’ failure to act: Faster growth, promised with tax cuts, is always just around the corner, but we never turn that corner.
P.S. Speaking about looney tunes, thinking AOC wants everyone to be poor is simply not true. That’s looney tunes. Originally Posted by txdot-guy
... Nor WILL the rich pay for it all ... They won't.
If AOC wants her Green New Deal, she's going to have to raise taxes on everyone, because the rich don't have enough money to pay for it all. Originally Posted by Tiny
