What constitutes "Vehicular Assault" as a criminal ct?

So, if it's not clear the car actually contacted Ross, and the rest of your analysis indicates Good tried to avoid him, how is she at fault?

And, I wish everyone would stop calling this a tragedy. A tragedy is when a tree branch falls and kills somebody. This was a killing that might have been a murder. Originally Posted by yeahsurewhatev

It was a likely a murder committed by an unvetted masked thug carrying out the orders of an idiot trying to curry favor with her boss, a wannabe dictator.

Hopefully a Minnesota court agrees and charges them all before Trump hits us with his next big thing … invasion of Iran… then all bets are off.

Damn. It seems like somebody is having a bad day. It's understandable you would be embarassed by your TDS and lack of common sense. Just relax. Maybe take a nap and cuddle with your teddy bear. Originally Posted by Budman

I sympathize that your MAGA Daddy issues aren't fully satisfied by your blind support of these incompetent fucks....

That you get so damn frustrated with not being able to defend them rationally that you have to default to childish insults....

But maybe try making a rational point sometime, rather than just repeating the Party Line.

JD Vance says you cannot have his job. The position of sell-out, soul-less, two-faced Fascist Mouthpiece is being filled nicely.

(I hear there is always room in North Korea for mindless propagandists, though....)

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At the instant that Ms. Good began to accelerate forward, the officer in front of her vehicle was too close to see which way her front wheels were pointed.
Had she obeyed the ICE officer's command to exit her vehicle should still be with us.

At the instant that Ms. Good began to accelerate forward, the officer in front of her vehicle was too close to see which way her front wheels were pointed.
Had she obeyed the ICE officer's command to exit her vehicle should still be with us. Originally Posted by Ducbutter

You'd think at his age he'd understand the wheels are linked to the steering wheel (huh, is that why they call it that?). Maybe he'd never seen one of them dang things afore. That's why he had to take that video from all sides; he wasn't getting in position to kill the 'fuckin bitch.' Sure, let's go with that one.
Did you think of this all on your own? Send it to J.D. and you might get shake his hand he wanks DT with.

Enough

Stop the abusive posts from both sides or vacations will be coming. And enough RTMing only the rude posts with which you disagree. Staff will not allow weaponizing the RTM process to snipe from behind the curtain.

Points have been issued to both "sides" here.

That's nothing but "weapons grade" Monday morning quarterbacking.

That's nothing but "weapons grade" Monday morning quarterbacking. Originally Posted by Ducbutter

Are you saying that he saw her turning the steering wheel, but he shouldn’t have understood that to mean the car would turn? We can only see that in retrospect?

Well, the cadillac v8 turbo can go from 0-60 in 3.3 seconds....vehicles can react faster than our bodies can interpret. Her wife tried to get in car, but she drove off....i' m sure some protesters have more phone videos, but will hide them.

When was this thread moved to the sandbox from the PF?

Normally there’s a notice when that happens.

....i' m sure some protesters have more phone videos, but will hide them. Originally Posted by Luvbubbles

That's ridiculous. It would be great to challenge you to prove this. But you will just say something like "see...no more videos came out, so they are obviously hiding them."

All while you ignore the logic of "you can't prove a negative."

There has never been an exaggeration or untruth that MAGA didn't exploit...and approve of.

.

Are you saying that he saw her turning the steering wheel, but he shouldn’t have understood that to mean the car would turn? We can only see that in retrospect? Originally Posted by yeahsurewhatev

When the officer was on the passenger side of the vehicle his body cam showed the wheels tuned to the left. The question is, how far to the left. Full lock? Half lock? The answer is I don't know, you don't know and the officer didn't know. At the instant she started to accelerate (and broke traction) which way were her wheels facing?
Here's a clue, it wasn't to the right. Then she began to turn the steering wheel to the right and accelerate again. How far to the right? I don't know, you don't know and the officer didn't know. At about this point he was struck by her vehicle and he fired through the front windshield. And all this movement on her part took place inside of 2 seconds.
Pretty sure we've all heard by now that the officer had "taken a ride" on some protester's car in the recent past and required medical attention. Do think that maybe that had some bearing on how he reacted there? But you want us to believe you'd have had the presence of mind to simply keep your weapon holstered? I call bullshit on that. No doubt you've watched replays of the videos ad nauseum and I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that you still don't know everything about this event. Not a single soul on this board does.
I still stand by the statement in my original post that had Ms. Good simply obeyed the command of the officer to exit the vehicle she would still be with us. I've heard folks claim that she didn't comply because she did not know who the officers were but that shit just doesn't wash. She was there specifically to harass ICE and she'd been doing it for hours. She knew exactly who they were.

Maybe a way too obvious question, but...
Why would a 'professional', 'experienced' law enforcement officer put himself in front of a vehicle that is occupied and under investigation?
Especially one with a running engine. Seems a very dangerous and indefensible position.

And by and officer who had recently experienced a less than desirable outcome from a similar situation...

Simple physics says a human body is not going to win over a vehicle, even at very slow speeds.

Maybe a way too obvious question, but...
Why would a 'professional', 'experienced' law enforcement officer put himself in front of a vehicle that is occupied and under investigation?
Especially one with a running engine. Seems a very dangerous and indefensible position.

And by and officer who had recently experienced a less than desirable outcome from a similar situation...

Simple physics says a human body is not going to win over a vehicle, even at very slow speeds. Originally Posted by RX792P

Not sure if you were addressing my comments but here's an answer, sort of. The answer is I can't explain that. It's not something I'd be anxious to do. And it does fly in the face of recommended dept policy. You can talk all kinds of garbage about what you would or wouldn't do (that's the general "you" of course) but few of us really know how we'd react given the circumstances. I've encountered some pretty stressful situations in my life where I reacted in in ways I'd have never anticipated.

Not just policy....TRAINING and EXPERIENCE.

It's my understanding that this is part of fundamental 'traffic stop 101' training.

Maybe I'm a bit 'biased' as I have worked auto races as flagger, responder and track safety for many years. Part of training is don't put yourself in front of a stopped race car when the driver is still in the car or when the car may move.

When the officer was on the passenger side of the vehicle his body cam showed the wheels tuned to the left. The question is, how far to the left. Full lock? Half lock? The answer is I don't know, you don't know and the officer didn't know. At the instant she started to accelerate (and broke traction) which way were her wheels facing?
Here's a clue, it wasn't to the right. Then she began to turn the steering wheel to the right and accelerate again. How far to the right? I don't know, you don't know and the officer didn't know. At about this point he was struck by her vehicle and he fired through the front windshield. And all this movement on her part took place inside of 2 seconds.
Pretty sure we've all heard by now that the officer had "taken a ride" on some protester's car in the recent past and required medical attention. Do think that maybe that had some bearing on how he reacted there? But you want us to believe you'd have had the presence of mind to simply keep your weapon holstered? I call bullshit on that. No doubt you've watched replays of the videos ad nauseum and I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that you still don't know everything about this event. Not a single soul on this board does.
I still stand by the statement in my original post that had Ms. Good simply obeyed the command of the officer to exit the vehicle she would still be with us. I've heard folks claim that she didn't comply because she did not know who the officers were but that shit just doesn't wash. She was there specifically to harass ICE and she'd been doing it for hours. She knew exactly who they were. Originally Posted by Ducbutter

I just watched the video for the second time.

First, on the wheels turned to the left, clearly it's less than half lock. I can see that and he could see that. I won't tell you what you see.

I take it you're saying that when she broke traction, we can't know which way her wheels were facing, but it wasn't right. That's confusing, that we both don't know but know which way they weren't facing (which happens to work in his favor).
The last image of her on his video shows her turning the steering wheel right. I don't see the vehicle moving before that moment. I can only tell it's moving as he pans to the front of the vehicle.

I don't see where in the video he was struck by her vehicle. If he's practicing Fed's strategy of putting themselves in possible jeopardy to justify use of deadly force, it would be convenient if his left hand, holding the camera, which extended would leave him out of harm's way, struck her vehicle.

I have no doubt that his prior experience helps us understand why he killed her. I also think it works against exonerating him--he wasn't just shooting to punish her, the "fucking bitch."

You know what, I'm not LE, so I expect much more of them than how I would react in this situation. Asking what I would do is a worthless standard. They signed up for the job, trained for the job, and should be expected to protect public safety, not just themselves.
You say all this took place in two seconds. From the moment he exits his car until he kills her is forty seconds. If he's a professional, he's spending all that time deescalating the situation, trying to make it end well for all involved. The it-all-happened-so-fast-defense was shot down by the highly pro-LE Supreme Court recently. The standard is the totality of events, so "he didn't have time to think" doesn't wash.