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some loads in life we have to bear alone because it is wrong to cleanse your soul at another person's expense Originally Posted by macdeft

I'm reminded of Boo Radley and Atticus Finch....''It is a sin to kill a Mockingbird..''

This is a difficult task indeed and thanks for posting this topic, Jamais vu. Even if i don`t agree with all opinions, i do respect them for their own truth each one of them contains. The subconsciousness of people allows them to find matching partners , no matter if they think they operate within the same matrix, or they don`t. For example , one of my friends once owned an escort agency, like some 20 years ago. Coincidentally he always falls in love with women who were at some way involved in that business. He never talks about the fact that he once owned an agency, even though the women confess to him about their past. And the meetings do take place in regular places , and he has since decades now a regular job.
That is something - after all - i consider synchronicity. So , at some point, it does not really matter if we lie or tell the truth, because deep down inside we all *know* or *feel*. I think the truth vs. lie is just a method of interacting and shaping the matrix you operate within - long after synchronicity has taken its course.
;-)

Ps: WTF , Ed, Naomi and London, i miss you guys :-)

some loads in life we have to bear alone because it is wrong to cleanse your soul at another person's expense Originally Posted by macdeft

^^^THIS. This right here is why I don't post. I could never make such a powerful, thought-provoking point in such a concise way. MacDeft, thank you for your awesome contribution to this thread! I love what you just said. And...I think I agree.

If I were to buy someone being able to leave this life, it would be the hooker who never wanted to be here in the first place. There is your difference. Guys WANT to be here, because sex is not a need to start with. Food and shelter are. Originally Posted by London Rayne

Yes ma'am!

--But--

Food and shelter are not what we are talking about. Living a certain lifestylye is a far cry from food and shelter. And you are making an assumption that we want to cheat. That is like saying the peron with a drinking problem wants to drink. In one sense you may be correct but if you peel back the layers of the onion it is much more complicated than that Originally Posted by WTF

Damn, he seems right too! The reason(s) for a hobbyist's indulgence cannot be overlooked or made to seem less important than the provider's participation.

You guys make my brain hurt. But, I like the mental exercise!

WTF is not right...he just argues like an Attorney, but watch out for the fallacies bwahhaha.

Fact is, SOME women are here ONLY to raise their families because they fell on hard times. For those women, I don't consider this a desire or anything self gratifying about it. Wanting to keep your home is a far cry from wanting a nut. That's like comparing a person on a diet who "claims" they are going to die without a piece of cheesecake, to a person who has not eaten a thing in a week. Nowhere near the same driving force in the two.

Honesty is the best policy with the person you love and the past is gone. I am not the same person and that is a good thing.

WTF is not right...he just argues like an Attorney, but watch out for the fallacies bwahhaha.

Fact is, SOME women are here ONLY to raise their families because they fell on hard times. For those women, I don't consider this a desire or anything self gratifying about it. Wanting to keep your home is a far cry from wanting a nut. That's like comparing a person on a diet who "claims" they are going to die without a piece of cheesecake, to a person who has not eaten a thing in a week. Nowhere near the same driving force in the two. Originally Posted by London Rayne

London have you ever entertained the possibility that we both could be right? Have you ever thought that raising a child is super self gratifying to some and getting off is self gratifying to others? Why is one so much worse than the other? To the person who has no desire to have kids, it is kind of silly to tell him that providing for kids should be his or her number one priority. You discount addictions as if they have no influence on the brain btw. Though that may be for another topic. Also wanting to send your kid to private school and have a huge house is not just wanting to raise a family because one fell on hard times. That is scratching a self gratifying desire. You are projecting your priorities onto others it seems. Lastly, wtf you got against lawyers?

We are in D n T not the streetwalker discussions. So bringing up the plight of the desperate is not really germaine to this conversation, do you think? On the other hand sexual addiction would be pertinent to this convo. Many women and men are drawn to this business because of some form of addiction or another. Lastly, wanting to keep ones home by illegal means is a rather slippery slope don't ya think. Would you feel the same way about a lady that robbed a bank with a water gun? Sorry, stuck at the airport for a couple of hours, missed my flight to fort Walton and I'm bored. Boohoo for poor wtf

^^^THIS. This right here is why I don't post. I could never make such a powerful, thought-provoking point in such a concise way. MacDeft, thank you for your awesome contribution to this thread! I love what you just said. And...I think I agree. Originally Posted by jamais vu

But it is also wrong to exercise power over people by denying them basic human rights. The reason why people lie is not because they care so much about the other, but because they care about themselves and don`t want to handle the consequences, that come with the truth. I call that manipulations.These manipulations are especially eminent with women in the buz. Not so much with the men seing escorts, as they pay (money) for the lie. Difference would be the "secret lover" agenda. Hence the quote:
Any man who has once proclaimed violence as his method is inevitably forced to take the lie as his principle.
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

or something from Austria :
"Men must not be spared the truth" - Ingeborg Bachmann
This was a quote concerning the second world war, where so many people claimed "they did not know" - when they did just not want to know.
So - using the lie as whatever moral excuse , is a dangerous way to make oneself feel better.
I mean lying is one thing - but to present it as an heroic act of caritative measurements makes me - kind of - speechless (yeah i know - hard to believe). I rather accept if someone says he lies out of fear or convenience or what not.

But nina aren't we responsible for our partners liestoo in some form or fashion? I do not blame the person who lied to me as denying me basic human rights as much as I blame myself for being so gullible. The opposite sexex seem to lie to each other about differnt things depending on each wants but lie we do. The tragic thing in my mind is when we lie to ourselves. I hope things are going well in your neck of the woods btw!

But nina aren't we responsible for our partners liestoo in some form or fashion? Originally Posted by WTF

Sure, we are. That is why we should at least try to be honest. Because i don`t want to hold my partners hostage. I want them to be with me, because they choose to do so. Not because they don`t know and would decide otherwise, if they could. Time is the most precious non-renewable resource we have and i could never forgive anyone if they wasted my time by lying to me.

And the other side of that question is: Why would i want to be with a partner i can`t share myself a 100% ? Except i am so prejudiced against my own desires that i am repulsed by a partner that accepts me the way i truly am? That is the only thing where I`d assume responsibility for my partners lies, if i am judgemental as well and would not have it any other way, and need a partner for "protective" measurements from the bad evil forces that pull me to doing what i do :-))......

Otherwise, Are the rest of the matching percentages worth it? And how can you live with yourself when you don`t tell important things? I remember myself lying to a guy for three months about having another relationship (he was strictly mono) and then i ended that relationship, because i could not live with myself. I never told him i started dating someone else, but i quit being in a relationship with him, because i thought i can`t be with him, if we have such different agendas in so important settings of life. And i felt terrible and awful to ommit that fact to him in the first place.

That said, i am prepared to live a life "alone" if i have to do that to pursue my goals. :-) Sometimes you can`t have both. I think, if "regular" relationships are that important to you, than you should probably not be in this line of work. First, you will be terribly dissappointed since all "regular people" seem to cheat, so that might be the first. And second, no "regular man" will accept anyone doing that job. It`s that simple.

I am fine thanks. I PM you later... :-) meeoooow

We are in D n T not the streetwalker discussions. So bringing up the plight of the desperate is not really germaine to this conversation, do you think? Originally Posted by WTF

Sure , but people can be desperate about many other things too. For example the latest Chanel fashion or being surrounded by Men with money ;-) to show off. Ha Ha.. Just kidding. But, i doubt people are in the buz because they can`t get laid any other way. So sex is a mix to an agenda, but there is no need for it. The reason for a woman charging are different than for a man booking. We all know that.

Sure, we are. That is why we should at least try to be honest. Because i don`t want to hold my partners hostage. I want them to be with me, because they choose to do so. Not because they don`t know and would decide otherwise, if they could. Time is the most precious non-renewable resource we have and i could never forgive anyone if they wasted my time by lying to me.
Originally Posted by ninasastri

People lie all the time. How many couples say, "To death do us part"?

Two years later, they are in a lawyers office splitting up assets.

So many times, what starts out as the truth , turns into a lie. We can spend time looking for fault or we can learn and be thankful and move on.

Nobody owes you or me the truth. There is no universal law that says so.

What I think, is that you owe yourself the truth. That is all I can control. I can not control other peoples lies. I can control how I react to them.

For example, if I have put myself in the extended presence of a liar, what character flaw in me would allow that?

What if you found out your parents weren't your parents? Would that really change who you are? What if your husband turned out to be gay? Would that change who you are?

And the other side of that question is: Why would i want to be with a partner i can`t share myself a 100% ? Except i am so prejudiced against my own desires that i am repulsed by a partner that accepts me the way i truly am? That is the only thing where I`d assume responsibility for my partners lies, if i am judgemental as well and would not have it any other way, and need a partner for "protective" measurements from the bad evil forces that pull me to doing what i do :-))......
Originally Posted by ninasastri

You have hit on what is important to you. It may be important to me also. But you have to realize that it is not important to all. People put different priorities on all sorts of things, lying like a dog being one of them. Where do you think politicians came from?

Sure , but people can be desperate about many other things too. For example the latest Chanel fashion or being surrounded by Men with money ;-) to show off. Ha Ha.. Just kidding. But, i doubt people are in the buz because they can`t get laid any other way. So sex is a mix to an agenda, but there is no need for it. The reason for a woman charging are different than for a man booking. We all know that. Originally Posted by ninasastri

Yes they are not exactly the same reasons....but if you really think about it they are both scratching wants.

Yes a man may work two jobs to scratch his wants.

And a woman may also work two jobs to scratch her wants.

Are they different wants? Yes of course they are but you either leave it at that or you then judge which is better or worse.

I choose to leave it at that. Neither want being better or worse than the other. I do realize others have to make me out as worse for scratching my wants than a lady in the business is, for her scratching her wants.

having been married 16 yrs, I will base my feedback upon my experiences - I married late - in my early 30's - after getting grad school and building a career foundation on Wall St..... my SO was a number of yrs young than I when we tied the knot.... at that time, we decided to let sleeping dogs lie.... she did not want to know my personal relationship history (aka sex experience) and neither did I care about her's....

Now. we are rather liberal in how we live.... and there are periods were I am overseas for months at a time, so trust is imperative....

In my simple view of the world, a provider is really nothing more than an attractive person that meets a lot of interesting people, and is compensated for their attention and companionship - just like "regular old dating".... so, what is there to really disclose? That said, if your SO is someone that will be in the public eye, then you need to work hard to minimize your social media footprint

There is your difference. Guys WANT to be here, because sex is not a need to start with. Food and shelter are. Originally Posted by London Rayne

Male "need" for sex is why we as a species became successful. The goal of a race is to survive and reproduce. If men didn't want sex, you wouldn't be alive today. Someone must have been asleep during high school Biology.

Not that I am going to convince you of anything. You have an obvious contempt for men.

If I were to buy someone being able to leave this life, it would be the hooker who never wanted to be here in the first place. There is your difference. Originally Posted by London Rayne

And whose fault is it that you are a hooker? Let me guess some man screwed you over at work or financially.

Speaking of lying, I don't want to know that a woman does not want to be a hooker. I think many women have figured out that they are better off making a living lying on their back this way than breaking it at some diner making minimum wage. Selling your body isn't the societal sin. It is not selling on the cheap for corporate America and/or the Church that has societal leaders in a tizzy.

Like any job, I am sure being a hooker has its pluses and minuses, but I don't think any woman can do this well if she hates herself for doing it. You aren't doing yourself any favors speaking the truth on this issue.