Army "Birther" Facing Court Martial

LM - I'm going to concede your point about McCain not having produced his birth certificate, although I don't trust any reporting from the NYT.

As far as the Certificate of Live Birth vs. the "long-form" Birth Certificate. Many times the "short form" certificate is not considered valid identification for proof of age or citizenship. For example, I took my 16-year old son to get his driving learner's permit last winter. When we arrived at the license bureau, I had brought the small proof of birth laminated card provided by the State of Kansas, which had the information identifying my son's date of birth and place of birth, plenty of information needed to prove his age and eligibility to obtain his learner's permit (he was 15 at the time). The license bureau refused to accept this card and required a certified birth certificate as proof of his age.

If the long form - i.e., the actual birth certificate - is considered the only proof of age acceptable to obtain a driver's license, why then would it not follow that the long form be the only proof of age and citizenship to be certified for one of the two United States offices where age and citizenship are Constitutionally defined? I, for one, do not know one way or another if what has been determined regarding the Bamster's citizenship is true and I don't care. The damage has already been done.

Clarifications for the context of the discussion:

1. Obama has not produced his birth certificate as a presidential candidate. There are ongoing court cases right now, in which people are trying to get him to produce it. These cases would not exist if he had previously produced it. I don't care if Don Ho says he saw it, or some website showed a printout...it is dishonest to state that he has produced it.

2. This is not the first time in his life that he has been asked for a birth cert. Presumably it was necessary for his application to take the bar exam, when he got his passport, when he somehow got permission to travel to Pakistan when he was younger. Hell, he played high school basketball, which probably required a birth cert. It is very normal and reasonable to ask for a birth cert....especially to validate constitutional eligibility.

I think this officer is wrong...but he would not be put in this position if his CIC would be a leader, and 'keep his subordinates informed'. A few here have called 'Leavenworth'. We'll see...if the administration does not prosecute him, it will be because they don't want the birth cert to be flushed out in discovery.

For all those who sneer at the 'birthers', I encourage all 34 y/o immigrants who can to run for president...and I dare any SOS to take them off the ballot...because that would be silly and conspiratorial.

When you wake up in the morning; I have to point out that this is not the first deployment to Afghanistan for this officer so he is not avoiding danger. I was in the Navy and it would be very unlikely that I would ever talk to the president but if I was approached by a naval Captain who ordered me to do some task and during that task I became very suspicious that the officer was a fake. In fact any reasonable person would become suspicious of this man. In retrospect I would be liable for anything that happened from me obeying his orders. Their are a number of people who are unconvinced that Obama is constitutionally qualified to be president. That is their right and so now this one officer is putting his ass and freedom on the line. Whatever the outcome, you have to respect his cojones. Originally Posted by john_galt

This has NOTHING to do with what we were talking about. Again, I asked a specific question, and you keeping tossing out info that has nothing to do with what I asked.



And no, I don't have to respect what he's doing. I respect him for serving our country on his first deployment, I love vets. But what he's doing now, in my opinion is wrong. So no, no respect for what he's doing now here.

And cheaper,

Adrielle you have a nice ass really nice me like it alot.

I missed this last night. Thank you. But do I need to change my avatar to keep from distracting you?

As far as the Certificate of Live Birth vs. the "long-form" Birth Certificate. Many times the "short form" certificate is not considered valid identification for proof of age or citizenship. For example, I took my 16-year old son to get his driving learner's permit last winter. When we arrived at the license bureau, I had brought the small proof of birth laminated card provided by the State of Kansas, which had the information identifying my son's date of birth and place of birth, plenty of information needed to prove his age and eligibility to obtain his learner's permit (he was 15 at the time). The license bureau refused to accept this card and required a certified birth certificate as proof of his age. Originally Posted by fritz3552

It sounds like they asked for a certified birth certificate that is similar to the short-form Hawaiian one. Did the paper that you handed to the nice DMV lady have cute little baby footprints on it? I doubt it. Would you have gone ballistic if the nice lady at the DMV told you that the certified birth certificate you just handed her wasn't good enough because it didn't have cute little baby footprints on it? Yes, you would have gone nuts. You would have raised your voice and insisted that the certificate that you just handed her was CERTIFIED by the state and had ALL of the information that she needed. And (if you could) you would have told her to go fuck herself, and that she doesn't need to see the long form...or the extra long form...or the jumbo extra extra long form birth certificate.

Clarifications for the context of the discussion:

1. Obama has not produced his birth certificate as a presidential candidate. There are ongoing court cases right now, in which people are trying to get him to produce it. These cases would not exist if he had previously produced it. I don't care if Don Ho says he saw it, or some website showed a printout...it is dishonest to state that he has produced it.

2. This is not the first time in his life that he has been asked for a birth cert. Presumably it was necessary for his application to take the bar exam, when he got his passport, when he somehow got permission to travel to Pakistan when he was younger. Hell, he played high school basketball, which probably required a birth cert. It is very normal and reasonable to ask for a birth cert....especially to validate constitutional eligibility. Originally Posted by lacrew_2000

1. Obama simply needs to prove he's a natural born citizen. That could be proven even if no certificates exist, theoretically. The testimony of the medical staff that did the delivery would be good enough. (I think they're all dead now.) A Birth Certificate is just the most convenient way to prove it. Another valid way to prove it is a Certification of Live Birth. The Certification of Live Birth is out there on the internet and you've seen it with your own eyes. Do you need to hold the original Birth Certificate in you hands for you to believe it to be real? Because that is not going to happen. Even if Air Force One flew the original document from Hawaii around the country to every wingnut lawsuit that requested it...most of the wingnuts would claim that it is a forgery or something.

2. Maybe those other organizations were full of reasonable people that recognized a certified Certificate of Live Birth as valid. You're only other choice is to believe that they were all "in on it". How else could you explain the government giving Obama a passport? Wait! Who was the president at that time? Maybe he was "in on it" too?!? Geez...crackpots.

At this point does it really matter, he is the President he has been sworn in and it is above the officers pay grade to dispute this. The officer should be Court marshalled, discharged at a minimum and in my opinion he should be spending some time in the grey bar motel. By the way it has made me physically ill to agree with LM. Adrielle, I am in love with your booty LOL, would you mind if I........ err sorry almost lost control.

It sounds like they asked for a certified birth certificate that is similar to the short-form Hawaiian one. Did the paper that you handed to the nice DMV lady have cute little baby footprints on it? I doubt it. Would you have gone ballistic if the nice lady at the DMV told you that the certified birth certificate you just handed her wasn't good enough because it didn't have cute little baby footprints on it? Yes, you would have gone nuts. You would have raised your voice and insisted that the certificate that you just handed her was CERTIFIED by the state and had ALL of the information that she needed. And (if you could) you would have told her to go fuck herself, and that she doesn't need to see the long form...or the extra long form...or the jumbo extra extra long form birth certificate. Originally Posted by Longermonger

No, LM, I would have said "OK. We'll be back." - just like I did when the nice lady at the DMV said that the small, laminated proof of birth card issued by the State of Kansas was insufficent. I, in fact, made sure, after waiting 67 minutes in line, that the certified birth certificate with the seal of the State of Kansas embossed on the certificate (which I still had in my important papers file) was the proper documentation required. Unlike you, LM, I am not projecting my actions by making assumptions as to how others would react. It seems as though you are and would react that way. Interesting.....

I have to wonder why LM is so angry. Is this personal for you?
The typo; (do I have to say this?) it was a typo and it was very late for me. That's what happens when you miss insulin shots.
The point behind the citizenship law is that some believe that Obama's grandmother was telling the truth when she says she remembers the day he was born.
John McCain did prove he was born in Panama in an American hospital in the American zone.

Anyone with any sense at all can tell that the cert floating around on the net isn't real.

I don't know about anyone else but I do have a certified, notarized copy of my birth certificate. I needed to produce it when I enlisted in the navy so many years ago. So if an enlisted man or officer is required to show a birth certificate why doesn't that include the commander in chief?

OK - Take this with a grain of salt - but now there's an official in Kenya, Land Minister James Orengo, whose quote is now circulating on the Internet: "...how could a young man born here in Kenya, who is not even a native American, become the president of America?"

I have tried to find an unbiased website (ha! ha!) to find a report with the pull quote. None of the MSM is reporting on it and most links are related to WAY far right websites. The closest I could find to a balanced report is from WorldNetDaily:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=139481.

According to the article, Mr. Orengo made his remarks in the Kenyan Parliament on March 25, 2010. This link also documents all the other reports that have been reported over the years regarding the birth site of the chosen one.

The following statement, which I have pulled from the article above, is the one that really makes me wonder about his citizenship status:

"Complicating the situation is Obama's decision to spend sums exceeding $1.7 million to avoid releasing an original long-form state birth certificate that would put to rest the questions."

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=106138

"The Certification of Live Birth is out there on the internet and you've seen it with your own eyes"

Well gee, if its on the internet, it must be true. Why one earth do we have these lawsuits, and why on earth is Obama paying attorneys to fight these lawsuits, if the public has seen everything there is to see? Of course he hasn't produced his birth certificate.

In on it? I said I thought he was born in Hawaii...but seeing as there are seeds of doubt in his officer corps, maybe the mature thing to do would be to produce his birth certificate....would make him the better man, a true leader, etc. etc....his fighting this in court is just helping polarize the country...I thought he was supposed to bring us together.

I don't think any amount of proof will convince the doubters that Obama was born in Hawaii. Neither will they believe that he was elected by a majority of the voters. Some still believe Acorn stole the election for him.

I have never heard anyone claim that ACORN stole the election. Yes, ACORN was involved in voter fraud, but the writing was on the wall...it was a landslide. Exactly who claimed that Obama stole the election?

And I think alot of people are missing the point. I don't doubt that Obama was born in Hawaii...but I still want him to produce the birth certificate. If we are all supposed to be living in a post partisan world, where Obama unites us, and his is supposed to be the most transparent administration in history, shouldn't he immediately quash any conspiracy theories by simply releasing the document? When he plays 'keep away' with it, while military officers are genuinely concerned over his legitimacy, he is not being a good leader. Where am I wrong with that?

You folks are fools. The real reason Obama won't produce a birth certificate is that he's a space alien human hybrid and they don't want to risk the chance that the phony birth certificate they created at the time will be proven to be fake.