"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."As a matter of strict fact and law, he was. 10 USC 311(a) reads as follows:
Was this kid who shot all these 6 and 7 year olds a member of the "well-regulated militia" that the 2nd Amendment references?
Originally Posted by timpage
The quoted article goes to length about mentioning how a "well regulated militia" has become, essentially, irrevalent and goes further by posing the argument that personal ownership of firearms is unnecessary and even dangerous to the common good. It also makes an interesting point about cannons. I would liken the old school application of restricting cannons to apply to modern day weapons like *gasp* assault weapons as we would define them going forward from this point. IBSyndrome must not have read the link carefully, hmmmmm - surprising. NOT!The rest of what you say I generally agree with and is more or less what I have said or implied elsewhere. But CoG will always reject anything I say because of geography and pre conceptions.
Originally Posted by Randy4Candy
1. The fact that cases like this make it all the way to the Supreme Court points out how difficult it is to interpret the true meaning of the 2nd Amendment. Forgetting politics, don't forget that the vote was 5-4 in favor of the ruling. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXXNot necessarily. The close decision might entice someone to take a case up on a similar point with the aspiration of persuading a vote to shift sides or to persuade the support of a new member on the Court to swing the interpretation in a different direction.
Not necessarily. The close decision might entice someone to take a case up on a similar point with the aspiration of persuading a vote to shift sides or to persuade the support of a new member on the Court to swing the interpretation in a different direction.I don't disagree with you at all. In fact I totally agree with you. Again not wanting to turn this into a political discussion, the vote in McDondald v. Chicago was fairly easy to predict. 5 judges who had historically favored gun rights issues and 4 judges who had not. But you never know on a different issue.
Sometimes changing political winds spawn the belief that the Court will change its mind. Originally Posted by LexusLover
Ridiculous argument. The SCOTUS has made 2 recent rulings, as cited, that have determined that the 2nd Amendment applies to citizens and gives them the right to possess firearms. No ifs, ands, or buts. However, 2 points need to be made:District of Columbia v. Heller originated in Washington DC. The local court ruled against Heller. Heller appealed. The DC Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in Heller's favor. The District of Columbia appealed. At that point, the Supreme Court looks at the case, and one of three things could have happened. 1) The Supreme Court could have declined the case, leaving Heller's victory intact, but not delivering a strong message. 2) The Supreme Court could have taken the case, and ruled against Heller, declaring that there was not an individual right to keep and bear arms. Or, as actually happened, 3) The Supreme Court could take the case and rule that there was such an individual right.
1. The fact that cases like this make it all the way to the Supreme Court points out how difficult it is to interpret the true meaning of the 2nd Amendment. Forgetting politics, don't forget that the vote was 5-4 in favor of the ruling.
2. The majority judges in their ruling on McDondald v Chicago made it clear that the ruling in no way affected the legality of the state's rights regarding other gun control laws such as CHLs. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX
Held:There's more, of course, but this will get you started.
1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a
firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for
traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.
Pp. 2–53.
(a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but
does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative
clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it
connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms. Pp. 2–22.
(b) The prefatory clause comports with the Court’s interpretation
of the operative clause. The “militia” comprised all males physically
capable of acting in concert for the common defense. The Antifederalists
feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in
order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing
army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress
power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear
arms, so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved.
Pp. 22–28.
(c) The Court’s interpretation is confirmed by analogous armsbearing
rights in state constitutions that preceded and immediately
followed the Second Amendment. Pp. 28–30.
(d) The Second Amendment’s drafting history, while of dubious
interpretive worth, reveals three state Second Amendment proposals
that unequivocally referred to an individual right to bear arms.
Pp. 30–32.
(e) Interpretation of the Second Amendment by scholars, courts
and legislators, from immediately after its ratification through the
late 19th century also supports the Court’s conclusion. Pp. 32–47.
(f) None of the Court’s precedents forecloses the Court’s interpretation.
Neither United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U. S. 542, 553, nor
Presser v. Illinois, 116 U. S. 252, 264–265, refutes the individual
rights interpretation. United States v. Miller, 307 U. S. 174, does not
limit the right to keep and bear arms to militia purposes, but rather
limits the type of weapon to which the right applies to those used by
the militia, i.e., those in common use for lawful purposes. Pp. 47–54.