Bush vs. Obama

Barack Obama never misses a chance to remind everyone that he inherited a bad situation. He's certainly right about that, but like Jimmy Carter in 1977-78, he seems intent on making it much worse.

The biggest problem we face is a looming fiscal train wreck caused by out-of-control government spending. Deficit spending was bad enough during the Bush years. In fact, real (adjusted for inflation) spending increased by about 30% on his watch. No matter how you slice it, that's a dismal record.

In fact, David Walker famously said a couple of years ago that the 2003 prescription drug entitlement bill was the most fiscally irresponsible piece of legislation passed during the last several decades. (But he said that before anyone even dreamed of the $862 billion "stimulus bill" -- The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009.)

The "stimulus bill" has little to do with averting a worse recession or stimulating economic growth and everything to do with showering borrowed and newly-created money on public employee unions and other favored constituencies. It was a political stimulus bill, not an economic one. The claim that government spending produces prosperity is based on economic doctrine that should be considered thoroughly discredited by the experiences of Britain in the 1950s-'70s, the U.S. in the '70s, and Japan in the '90s. But the idea remains popular with politicians who love to be given a license to buy votes with other people's money!

Even worse, the "stimulus bill" seems to be just a warm-up act for Obama and the Pelosi/Reid congress. If it can reasonably be said (it can and it was) that George W. Bush spent like a drunken sailor, it must be noted that Obama is intent on spending like a drunken SMU trust fund brat.

This is just part of an overaching, anti-growth agenda that will make prospects for sustainable jobs growth and economic growth worse, not better.

If you're a business owner or manager who makes hiring decisions, what do you see when you take a look around the lansdcape?

Well, for one thing, you see an out-of-control government that has to depend on about $130 billion of net new treasury issuance every month. You have to know that the world does not have an unlimited appetite for all that newly-created debt, and that private sector credit will eventually be crowded out -- ultimately making it more difficult for you to borrow funds for working capital, inventory financing, or expansion.

You also must realize that politicians will eventually be forced to do something about a structural deficit that's close to 10% of GDP. It's obvious that you'll see big tax increases in the fairly near future, and I'm not talking about tax increases only on the top 2% of the income strata. The only way you can pay for the current level of spending is with a very large tax increase on the middle class. (In fact, Obama's new deficit commission is sometimes referred to as the "VAT-recommendation commission.") If your business depends on consumer spending, you obviously realize that sucking about a trillion bucks a year out of the economy is going to have some pretty negative consequences for economic growth.

Small businesses have been the major engines of job creation in the U.S. for many years. Given the current policy mix, should anyone be surprised if they're reticent to hire?

Of course not. Sensible people recognize a fiscal kamikaze mission when they see one.

By the way, one thing that went largely unnoticed during all the hubbub over the firing of General McChrystal was that Obama's budget director, Peter Orszag, just announced that he's resigning as of next month. Who can blame him? I mean, seriously, having that on your record is about like being one of Michael Jackson's personal physicians. I'm sure he smells the smoke and wants to get the hell out of the building before everybody realizes it's on fire.

I have an idea! Why don't we all drop our pants, turn into the wind, and piss away?

Jimmy Carter gave nuclear technology to North Korea. . . top that for incompetence. . . oh wait, O has almost 3 more years. . . never mind. Originally Posted by Iaintliein

iT'S laughable to hear you defend Bush's record- didn't Bush leave office with like a 36% approval rating? Also, Bush exapnded the governmenent- Govern,ent grew larger under Bush- yeah now that's a conservative for you. Also, you said Obama has 3 more years- hmmm I say 6 years more if he chooses to seek a 2nd term- but if you think caribou Barbie in Alaska has a chance or perhaps Mitt "Gosh I passed a Health Reform Bill as Governor of my State that is a near mirror image to ObamaCare" Romney are going to pull out a victory in 2012 thenhey this Buds for you. Lol!

Hmm...

I remember when Reagan was in the White House. We had Bobe Hope and Johnny Cash.

Now with Obama in the White House, we have no HOPE... and no CASH.

Trooper H Originally Posted by Trooper Hawk

That's a very old line but if you thought that George W Bush years there was a lot of Hope and a lot of Cash around then I would hate to be in your shoes- what a lot of you Obama haters are not seeing is if Obama is such a bad president shouldn't we be in a recession right now?
Let's face the facts- we went into a recession in Sept of 2008- so whoever won McCain or Obama was going to have to deal with a financial breakdown and 2 wars and high unemployment and I am sorry you don't fix that overnight. If Obama's policies are so bad we should be in a recession but even the most pessimistic economist will admit that we are out of the recession and we are slowly getting back to normal- what most economist are predicting is early to mid 2012 a steady growth- so at least give Obama credit for not getting us in a DEPRESSION because it could have easily gone south.
Also, speaking of Reagan- check your history books- did Reagan fix Carter's mess in his few few days or even months? NO! In 1980 there were still long gas lines- high as hell inflation and just like Obama Reagan caught a lot of heat from critics-it really wasn't until Reagan's 3rd year of his first term did things turn around- be atient people.
And guys/gals if shit was so fucked up as this person says we have no CASH then why are there literally hundreds of posts of guys seeing clients and hundreds of ads of ladies posting- hey shit can be that fucked up if men are still seeing clients-guys complaining about they have no cash then perhaps the last place you would want to be is on eccie- just my 2 cents

You can blame Clinton, Bush, Obama, or Congress. The truth is that the problem lies with us...or at least a lot of us. We spend, spend, spend beyond our means and the government and banking system encouraged us to do so. Now it's time to pay the price for our recklessness. I think Obama is off course in dealing with the current financial woes, and is using the crisis to extend his agenda at a time when the focus should be on recovery.

As far as the war on terror, this is a war that can't be won as long as there is poverty in the world. We won a world war in four years, but defeating a terrorist enemy that feeds on despair will be an ongoing process. We can't rebuild every poor country in the world. Our stategy is doomed until people have the courage to stand up for themselves. Unfortunately that will never happen unless they have hope and honorable leadership.

Let's face the facts- we went into a recession in Sept of 2008- so whoever won McCain or Obama was going to have to deal with a financial breakdown and 2 wars and high unemployment and I am sorry you don't fix that overnight. If Obama's policies are so bad we should be in a recession but even the most pessimistic economist will admit that we are out of the recession and we are slowly getting back to normal- what most economist are predicting is early to mid 2012 a steady growth- so at least give Obama credit for not getting us in a DEPRESSION because it could have easily gone south. Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

We are not getting back to normal. 10% unemployment is not normal. $1 Trillion deficits are not normal. The economy is as bad as it ever was. If it weren't then why are states begging for more stimulus? If things were fine then businesses would actually be hiring people. The panic may may have come and gone, but nothing has been fixed. This argument that things could have been worse is bullshit. We don't elect presidents to avoid catastophes we elect them to make things better. Obama came in with more hype than the 2nd coming of Christ and has done jack shit. And I don't say any of this out of some love for Bush. He was a pretty poor president too, but Obama is a complete disaster.

I don't think anyone blamed the recession on Obama. It has taken decades of extremely poor legislation and Federal pressure on lending institutions to make irresponsible loans to non-credit worthy individuals to bring it about.

Our concern is Obama's policies are the exact opposite of what it takes to recover responsibly ie: CARTER revisited tenfold.

I didn't know we were out of the recession. I guess I've been reading the wrong economic news sources. Enlighten me please.

Of course, the main media is so enamored with Obama, they jump at any chance they get to spin something positive about him so much that I'm getting dizzy.

And I do remember the gas rationing, 12% home interest rates, and inflation so bad stores had mark-ups not mark-downs. Bidding on a home was also iffy. Offer the asking price and you'd get a counter offer that the seller had raised his price.

Incomes can't keep up with that and the current administrations debt and spending approach has us on a suicide course with disaster.

The comments you see about no cash are reflections of what we anticipate if we don't take a serious change of direction.

I suspect part of the current administration's solution to massive debt of historical proportions is to pay it back with inflated dollars. If the dollar is devalued enough, a $trillion really will be pocket change.

sancocho.

Well isn't that special.

If Slick Willie Clinton, your hero, had gotten Bin Laden when offered on a silver platter, 9/11 most likely never would have happened.

And like others living in a fantasy land, Presidents aren't on vacation when they are not in the White House in August. The people's business doesn't come to a halt. Bush worked while in Texas. keep reading and watching that Commie News Network, it will really educate ya. Originally Posted by LazurusLong

My comment was not clear enough, and for that I must apologize.

Slick Willie is not my hero, I don't know where you got that, other than that he was getting his knob slobbered in the Oval Oral Office.

Clinton passed on a chance to get Osama alive, then passed on an even better chance to kill Obama and a few hundred of his closest friends, then lied about it.

Read Scheurer, or catch him on Fox News some time.

..where the truth lies...and most level-headed, at-least semi informed/educated people eventually realized that blame for current situation encompasses BOTH parties and Multiple ADMINISTRATIONS.


Bush had ties to BIG Business, namely Oil...and he surrounded himself with
old guard Republicans that were reccomended by His Father and he at least originally trusted.

Bush was/is guilty of some quick judgement/Im the Sheriff/We will show them mentality that was most assuredly highly encouraged by some of these same old guards (Rumsfeld, Cheney...etc)...

To totally blame the Economic Mess on Bush is shortsighted at best.
Most Bi Partisan Economists point to the Mortgage Meltdown and the Deriviative Sector that stemmed from it...
The Single Most Sweeping Legislation that "freed" up lenders to help "every citizen" afford housing was passed in the late 90's...by the CLINTON ADMINISTRATION...
Pure american greed took over from there, as people making 30K bought houses worth 200K and people making 100K bought half million dollar homes, etc...

While Obama has done some good things in the first half of his term,
he has moved the country towards more of Socialist Society...

It doesnt look like the Republicans are going to offer up anything better than the former Alaskan Governor...and if they cant they probably dont deserve to get Obama out....

IN CASE YOU CANNOT TELL....I do NOT pledge myself to any given party...I lean more conservative than liberal, but most of the claims each party makes, especially concering the other, is LAUGHABLE, at best....

My conclusion is this: This country has seemingly outgrown the antiqauted 2 party system...That being said, The Nouveau Tea Party doesnt impress me that much either....Obviously, I dont have the answer, but dont see the current set up getting much better any time soon...

Lanny

These political threads always make me laugh, simply for the fact that we seem to have a large number of Republicans on this board.

So much for conservatism and being the party of family values.

How can you even argue a conservative viewpoint when you frequent a board that promotes a liberal lifestyle?

How can you even argue a conservative viewpoint when you frequent a board that promotes a liberal lifestyle? Originally Posted by Gambit

Because true conservatives believe in freedom. Social conservatives distort what it means to be conservative. The left in this country distort what it means to be liberal. They believe in freedom of choice when it pertains to abortion, but not when it means rejecting a union. They believe in freedom of speech when you protest a war, but not when you criticize their pet causes.

Yeah, it's an interesting conundrum to contemplate as to how the hard-line righters who post here justify the intolerance and self-righteous moralistic positions they advocate on a website dedicated to that most open and liberal of all pursuits. I'll leave that issue to them to figure out for their rationalizations and self-deception....not that they will ever get it, although hope springs eternal.

As to the usual jingoism (socialism,etc), you prove my point. Not a one of you appears to have given a serious thought to any of the issues and are interested only in repeating the kind of crap the prevents us from making any progress on the problems facing the people of the US. Good for you...suck on it.

To timpage, et.al.
Please link to any post here that supports your claims that those who oppose your views, express "intolerance and self-righteous moralistic positions," just one.

While you're at it, give us some links to how Obama is more supportive of the hobby and other social liberties. War on drugs? check, Patriot Act? check.

Please link to one post that claims those who oppose you espouse "family values" more than you do, just one.

Progress? You call bowing to the King of Saudi Arabia progress?

To expand on friendlyguy77's excellent post. There are social, economic, and defense conservatives and various hybrids.

The folks who always seem to resort to name calling and generalizations simply paint with too broad a brush. Like the OP who seems to think that anyone who rejects the newage mythology of liberalism must automatically embrace bronze age or iron age mythology.

This thread was specifically named "Bush vs Obama." Yet many here think that pointing out disagreements concerning one or the other means the one doing it is a "Bush guy" or an "Obama guy." I did not vote for Bush, I simply don't like the bull shit people spout about him.

Regards,

WE1911, your right, President Bush's approval rating was in the mid 30's when he left office, but just like you guys on the left always do you don't tell "the rest of the story". President Obama has taken his 65% approval rating and through his governing without regard for what the people want it is now at 44% 18 months into his time or rule. Give him a couple more months to pass the financial reform act, cap and trade, and amnasty and I am quite certain his numbers will be much lower than any President we have ever had.

I am sick of the left still blaming everything on GWB. These are the same people that said 911 was "Bush's fault" because he has been in office what 8 months? Clinton was not responsible at all, nooooo....all BUSH, 8 months. Using that same logic 18 months into Obama's rule wouldn't all this mess be his. He has spent more money in 18 months than GWB did in 8 years so grow the hell up and give me a break.

One thing people on the left seem to forget, when the government spends a trillion dollars, they have to take it from the people. Government cannot simply make and spend money without there being a price to pay, and payday is but a short time away.

Another question, why was the first thing every news cast during GWB's administration "how many deaths today in the war." Now under BO you hear nothing unless you are listening to FOX. Over 1000 of our troops have died in BO's war and nothing from the main stream press.

Finally, GWB's ratings were in the mid 30's when he left office, but as I said you fail to tell the rest of the story. Today according to a recent CBS poll they are back up to 42% since people have had time to reflect on his administration.

HMMMMM GWB - 42% BO - 44% IF GWB continues to climb and BO continues to fall as trends would suggest, GWB could make a big comeback. Another poll recently had GWB ahead of BO in who would you rather see as president.

I am a damn proud Reagan conservative. Not a republican. My voting creed this time around is.... screw you if you are an incumbent you are out of here. NO one in office is worth the risk of being a closet lib, no one in DC is listening to us. They believe they have in some way become our royalty, screw them, VOTE THE BASTARDS OUT !!!!!!!!

You can blame Clinton, Bush, Obama, or Congress. The truth is that the problem lies with us...or at least a lot of us. We spend, spend, spend beyond our means and the government and banking system encouraged us to do so. Now it's time to pay the price for our recklessness. I think Obama is off course in dealing with the current financial woes, and is using the crisis to extend his agenda at a time when the focus should be on recovery.

As far as the war on terror, this is a war that can't be won as long as there is poverty in the world. We won a world war in four years, but defeating a terrorist enemy that feeds on despair will be an ongoing process. We can't rebuild every poor country in the world. Our stategy is doomed until people have the courage to stand up for themselves. Unfortunately that will never happen unless they have hope and honorable leadership. Originally Posted by cookie man

+++1 million best post on this thread and the most truthful