Why A Yes Vote For The Iran Nuclear Deal Is A No-Brainer

You're an idiot and everyone knows it. Got a link to this "black budget"? If it's hidden and off the books, how are you privy to it? So you actually believe the Pentagon secretly spends over $400 billion a year extra with no oversight or accountability? Neither Congress nor the investigative media knows about it? That's equivalent to 2.4% of our GDP (and over 10% of the federal budget) and you think it can be hidden? And how is it financed? We know exactly how much debt the US Treasury has issued and outstanding. Or do you think the Treasury is cooking the books and borrowing over $400 billion a year extra (that's $4 trillion every decade) and it doesn't show up in the federal ledgers anywhere? I warned you not to double down on stupid. You're a bigger idiot than any of the tinfoil hat conspiracy mongers you like to ridicule here.




You can't stop babbling like a fool. You are confusing ISIS with the Iraqi army, you moron. We stopped training the Iraqi army because Odumbo pulled everyone out of Iraq (including our trainers) prematurely in 2011. This allowed al-Maliki to replace the top echelon professional commanders with his own hand-picked, unqualified and incompetent cronies. That's why Mosul fell to ISIS last year. The Iraqi army still had grunts willing to fight but they were abandoned by Maliki's hacks. And our intelligence guys were no longer there to warn them because Odumbo turned the lights off.




If you're so confident, why don't you make a prediction here? Can you go on record and predict Iran will not have a nuke within the next 10 years? If you can't, why should anyone support the agreement?

. Originally Posted by lustylad
I know it's hard for your old ass to follow a string of thoughts. The training question was not related to the next statement about dying being their ultimate goal. Should I make bullet points for dumbasses like you? Jesus Christ.

Bibi predicted Iran would have a nuclear weapon in a year. That was 20 years ago. There's a prediction for you.
herfacechair's Avatar
WombRaider: I don't know what you predicted in 2004

I predicted, on the "Brazzil Forums," precisely what ended up happening in Iraq from then through 2011. I also predicted that the Iraqi military and security force were going to gain enough competency to take over security from the United States. This, in conjunction with the Iraqis backing their military against the terrorists. Everything that I predicted ended up happening.

WombRaider: and don't much give a fuck.

You can't have it both ways. The moment you dismissed a fact based on a logical, reasoned, argument, as well as a prediction based on such, whether you gave a fuck or not does not matter. It becomes relevant when it comes to destroying your argument.

You're just saying that because that very fact destroyed your assumption. One where you try to dismiss something I said that destroyed your argument. You basically don't give a crap about anything that harms or destroys your argument.


WombRaider: As for off the books spending, I'm referring to the black budget. These are not things people will request forms for.

Again, having been involved with finance, in a military capacity, there is no "black budget" that gives us money to do things. In every single military pay/finance office, the procedures are pretty much the same.

All branches of the military have to follow The Department of Defense Financial Management Regulations (DOD FMR) when conducting pay/finance operations.

Meaning, any incoming income was documented via cash collection voucher, or other similar voucher. Any expenditure, on the account of the disbursing/finance office, was documented on an expenditure voucher.

The forms that I was talking about are a snapshot of assets and liabilities in the hands of the disbursing officer, deputy disbursing officer, disbursing agent, cash agent, etc. Anything, involving money, those in the hands of these agents are listed in these forms (balance sheets/financial statements).

When it comes to public funds, money coming from the government, or money due to the government, we accounted for every single penny. There is no instance of money coming in that did not have to be accounted for.


WombRaider: How did it go training the Iraqi army? Make them face their mortality?

I'm glad you asked.

Last year, as I was reading about ISIS's advance, I smiled and glowed with pride, when I read that the Iraqis that my unit worked with repelled ISIS. They hammered the ISIS "fighters", and sent them on their way. ISIS has since attempted to come back, but to no avail.

You read that right. The area, where my unit's combat outpost was, is still under Iraqi government hands. That's thanks to the Iraqi military unit that my unit worked with when we were combat deployed there.


WombRaider: They want to fucking die. Dying for their religion is the highest way for them to go.

It's blatantly obvious that you've never stepped foot in the Middle East in a combat/operational capacity. The Iraqis that we worked with hated Al Qaeda and the other terrorists. They didn't buy into the "killing the infidel to get into heaven" mentality.

As with the western countries, the population in the Arab countries have varying levels of commitment to their religion. You have Muslims that are devout, and you have others that are average, and you have others that are "in name only."

The radicals, on the other hand, are brainwashed and radicalized. Even then, they realize, in the end, that what they're doing would end their lives. If they wanted to "fucking die," they would not have resorted to mortar and IED attacks as their main form of attacks. Both allows the "trigger man" a chance to survive and escape.

Why would they do that if they wanted to die, simply because that's the highest way to go?

There are those that take that up, dying for their religious cause; however, this does not describe all of them.


WombRaider: You're simply making a lot of bullshit predictions and knitting together half a story with what little information you have.

Wrong, as usual. These are not "bullshit" predictions, quotation marks used strongly. These are projections based on my extensive study of current events running area, to include reading their own statements, and watching their videos, that makes a blatantly obvious what direction they are headed in.

All I am doing is connecting the facts as they occur throughout the big picture, and making a projection based on that. This "big picture" includes a study of their history, as well as current events. Here is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad saying something that's echoed repeatedly among radicals:

"The message of the [Islamic] Revolution is global, and is not restricted to a specific place or time. Have no doubt... Allah willing, Islam will conquer what? It will conquer all the mountaintops of the world." -- Mahmoud Ahmadinejad


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuslxJFpBuU

Mountains have historically been a place for people to escape to. He's saying that people will not even be able to escape to the mountains. Here's another one:

"We don't need terrorists, we don't need homicide bombers. The 50+ million Muslims [in Europe] will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades." -- Muammar al-Gaddafi


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBE3P4dBh78

There are many more where these came from. No matter what their differences are, throughout that area, there is a sense that Islam will rule the world. They're doing it via unrestricted warfare/asymmetrical warfare.

Second, the predictions that I talked about earlier are not "BS." Like the prediction I'm making now, they were based on historic trends as well as current events. It's a simple matter of connecting the dots based on a trend. This is also based on having as many facts as possible gained via extensive study.

Describing the facts and predictions that I present, via extensive study and experience, as "what little information you have" is like describing the entire Chinese population as "only a handful of people." It makes it blatantly obvious that you're just a buffoon speaking out of your ass.

What I know, regarding the topic that we are arguing, is extensive. I could generate a book and a dissertation with just a fraction of the knowledge that I'm basing my argument on.

The cold hard reality is that I've consistently made accurate predictions on what is going to happen based on extensive knowledge on history and current events. That's a fact. Nothing will change that, no matter how your arrogance tries to protect your fragile ego from humiliation in a debate.


WombRaider: If you were an expert, you wouldn't be on a hooker board. [INDUCTIVE FALLACY]

Once again, you colossally failed to understand what it was you were reading. This is a strong indicator that you are reading my replies with a lot of arrogance and emotion raging through you. With all that going on, you're seeing what you want to see, and not what I'm actually saying.

When I say this:

"I don't jump into a debate until a major requirement is met. I have to know for a fact that I know far more about the topic than the opposition does. This is gained via extensive research/study of the topic, as well as experience in many, or all, the aspects of the topic that I'm debating." -- herfacechair

I'm saying that I will not jump into a debate unless I know for fact that I will destroy the opposition. This has nothing to do with me claiming to be an expert just to make that claim. This is extremely relevant when the opposition claims that I "lost" simply because of a statement I made that you colossally failed to prove "wrong".

Your "if then" statement is erroneous. Why am I on this board? Well, the reasons that I'm on this board is obvious, and is similar to the reasons most other people on this board. That reason, is independent of the reason people are here on this thread arguing.

Why am I on this thread? A simple answer to that is that the opposition, including you, is wrong. I'm here debating against those who think that they are "not wrong." When mindless drones like you attempt to diminish my argument, or me, simply based on their arrogant emotions in the hands of defeat, I'm going slap them with my expertise as it relates to the debate topic.


WombRaider: Sell crazy somewhere else.

First, I'm going to keep hammering you every time you try to dazzle me with your ignorance.

Second, the only reason that you are identifying my argument as "crazy" is because you disagree with them, and you have no way of arguing against my argument. Your last two replies to me gives you the appearance of having a mental breakdown. The only crazy that I see is someone, extremely clueless about the topic that's being argued, attempting to argue with a subject matter expert who happens to have combat deployed to the region that is being argued about.

That makes you a retard. Now, if you cannot be adult enough to accept that you've been destroyed, that you have lost, and that you have been clueless compared to my having extensive knowledge/facts regarding the debate topic, go be a retard elsewhere.


WombRaider: Is a fluid situation,

That's a generalized view that doesn't take into account the factors involved with the changing situation.

WombRaider: you fucking moron.

This is an example of you projecting your own traits against the opposition. You, and those on your side of the argument, the liberals/progressives, are not only morons, but mindless drones.

WombRaider: That's why you conservative shitheels are constantly wrong because you don't take on new information.

BWAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAHAAAAA! Congratulations, you surpassed that guy that posted here earlier who threatened people with his lawyer.

Speak for yourself. You're complaining and whining about the conservatives allegedly not taking information in, yet here you are extending a lot of effort rejecting new information. Hence, you constantly being wrong. You'd rather be wrong because your pride makes you think you're right.

We conservatives are not constantly "wrong." We are constantly correct. Again, a main reason that I'm on here destroying you people's arguments is because you people are wrong. Your arguments are devoid of fact, reason, and logic.

This is why destroying you guys in debate, including you, is like taking candy away from a baby.

You're also wrong in assuming that conservatives do not take in new information. We conservatives take valid information in, not BS information. You liberals, on the other hand, tend to soak up BS information, simply because that information massages you people's ego.

My side of the argument, the conservative side, argues from the facts. We reject BS. You guys need to quit thinking and assuming that your BS, and emotion-based rants, are "fact." They aren't.


WombRaider: He was merely giving you examples of countries we previously had bad relations with that we now are friendly with. Is that difficult to understand?

For you simpleminded libtards, taking these examples, outside the context of the back-and-forth relationships, is all that is needed. No, the conservatives on this thread do not have a problem understanding what WTF, and other low information voters, are attempting to say.

However, we reject the BS arguments behind what he, and you guys, advance. Vietnam before, Vietnam now, different circumstances. Iran before the revolution, and Iran now, different circumstances.

This is nothing but an inductive fallacy to use in an argument to make up for not having the facts.

The cold hard reality is that you libtards are constantly wrong. You people reject the facts as "opinion" or "BS," while at the same time mistaking you people's emotional rants as "fact." Yes is things azz backwards.

When the opposition does nothing but advance BS, destroying them in argument becomes easy.


WombRaider: I know it's hard for your old ass to follow a string of thoughts.

How he interpreted your statements is very similar to how I interpreted your statements. The problem isn't with how your statements were read, is not on our end. The problem is on your end. If what you said earlier was not what you communicated, then you need to communicate your actual thoughts better. Taking a deep breath, and calming down, will help.

WombRaider: The training question was not related to the next statement about dying being their ultimate goal.

What you said:

"How did it go training the Iraqi army? Make them face their mortality?" -- WombRaider

What part of your own statement do you not understand? The way that is structured, "them" identifies "Army" in the preceding sentence.

The way you typed that, you're clearly communicating that the people we trained were the same people as ISIS. Someone reading your statement, as written, would have come to the same conclusion that lustylad came to. The problem is not on our end, but on yours.


WombRaider: Should I make bullet points for dumbasses like you? Jesus Christ.

Until you read our statements, with the intentions of understanding what we are saying, you do not have a leg to stand on insinuating that someone read you wrong. Especially if the breakdown is on your end.

No, you don't need to make bullet points. All you need to do is to calm yourself down before you even reply. Here's something that will help you. Read our posts more than once. The first time you read our statements, you are emotionally charged. However, if you read our statements a second or even a third time, you will find yourself closer to being more levelheaded. Hopefully.
herfacechair's Avatar
WTF: Jackie....folks wanted us to continue the Vietnam War...now we are trading partners with them. almost 60k troops killed ... yet we are trading partners now.

You're making an apples to oranges comparison.

Those who wanted us to continue to fight the Vietnam War, unrestrained, understood that we could win the war via persistence. We won all major battles in Vietnam, and most of the minor battles. Overall, we won it militarily. In fact, low estimates of the North Vietnamese death puts their dead at over 500,000, if Vietnam is to be believed. In reality, the lost more than 1 million military/militia lives.

The Republicans had the will to keep fighting, the Vietnamese knew that if we kept bombing them, and Attacking them, they eventually would be defeated. Their strategy entailed "just hang in there" as the antiwar people in the United States would pull the US military out.

Back then, they had extensive Soviet and Chinese involvement with their political and military leadership. Not exactly the kind of entity that you want to hold regular trade with. We were trading with the South Vietnamese back then.

As the years progressed, things changed. One of those changes involves the Chinese, their former allies, bickering with them over Vietnamese territory off the Vietnamese coast.

China has established a nine dash line to indicate what they identify as their territory in the South China Sea. They practically claim almost all of the South China Sea, up to the territorial waters of the countries they're having political disputes with.

Guess what?

The United States has a strong desire to maintain the South China Sea as international territory. For the United States, this involves free shipment and movement through that area. That's guaranteed with that area maintaining its status as international waters. That's a stance of the United States takes.

This is consistent with Vietnam's views, as they have claimed territory in the South China Sea the same area that China has claimed.

This puts the United State on the side of Vietnam. Both countries oppose China's moves. This is not exactly the situation where Vietnam today is the Vietnam of 1975.


WTF: The folks that hate us in Iran are the Religious Nuts ... free trade with America will hurt their power.

Both those statements contradict each other. Many of those "religious nuts" are in charge of Iran. They, along with the other radicals, don't like the United States. However, free trade between Iran and United States would only strengthen those religious nuts, whether they are in power or not.

As long as they are in charge, free trade would not benefit the rank-and-file in Iran.


WTF: The special interests groups that profit from war are the one's against this deal and have spent millions convincing the average American that it is bad.

Wrong. This is not economically driven by those who "profit from war." The opposition stems from a true understanding of how people think in that area. When the enemy keeps saying that they will destroy you, and they intend to destroy one of your main allies, and they make moves and advertise that they are going to do such, this is a case where justification for the opposition is sound. It's based on fact.

This deal only benefits Iran. It does not benefit the United States, or its allies in the region, in the long run. This has nothing to do with "benefiting from war."

I'm definitely not a part of any interest group interested in the war machine making money, and I doubt the others in my side of the argument here are either.


WTF: It is bad like ending the Vietnam War was bad.

Ending the Vietnam War while we were winning, before we have set the conditions on the ground to secure the victory, was bad. The Democrats almost succeeded, but a Republican president forged on, forcing the North Vietnamese to the table. The US pulled out militarily in 1973, when conditions on the ground reset.

All the Democrat-controlled Congress had to do was to keep funding the South Vietnamese in order for them to keep holding off the North Vietnamese.

In both cases, the Democrats advocated a policy that involved reversing our victories into defeats.

Far too many people don't realize that the Vietnamese had gotten to the point to where they were on the verge of surrendering unconditionally. If only we continued to hammer them without letting off. Leave it to the Democrats to do otherwise. Leave it to the Democrats to change a resounding success in Iraq, and soon Afghanistan, into something else the benefits our enemies.

I'll tell you what is bad, a liberal's judgment.


WTF: I think this proxy war was enough....the majority of folks in both countries do not benefit from war.

You don't speak for the majority Iranian people. I was stationed with a service-member who originally came from Iran. The majority of the Iranian people want freedom and democracy in the style that they see from among the Western countries. Unfortunately, they do not call the shots. The radicals that hate the United States are truly in charge of Iran. He confirmed that.

The Iranian population tried to take things into their hands, via demonstrations. These demonstrations got stronger each time they happened. Obama ended up taking the winds out of their sails. A president with real leadership would have supported those guys. He would've capitalized movements in the Arab spring in a way that benefited their move toward democracy.

Saying that this "proxy war" was "enough" is basically throwing the towel in. This deal, with Iran, lowers US credibility. Conservatives are not the only ones that oppose it. The majority of the American public also opposes it.


WTF: Only a select few. That is who is beating the drums for war on both sides.

The supreme leader in Iran wanted the sanctions completely removed. He did not want sanctions to be "temporarily" removed, with the option of being re-implemented. He wanted it completely removed. That's what his opposition was.

The people that are opposing it here, are doing so based on being realistic. We have a ruling elite in charge in Iran that hates the United States, and pose a threat to our allies. The Iranians did not have to make any major concessions, like release of political prisoners, movement towards democracy, renouncing terrorism by act as well as voice, not supporting or funding terrorism, and many other important issues, as part of this deal.
WTF: Jackie....folks wanted us to continue the Vietnam War...now we are trading partners with them. almost 60k troops killed ... yet we are trading partners now.

You're making an apples to oranges comparison.

Those who wanted us to continue to fight the Vietnam War, unrestrained, understood that we could win the war via persistence. We won all major battles in Vietnam, and most of the minor battles. Overall, we won it militarily. In fact, low estimates of the North Vietnamese death puts their dead at over 500,000, if Vietnam is to be believed. In reality, the lost more than 1 million military/militia lives.

The Republicans had the will to keep fighting, the Vietnamese knew that if we kept bombing them, and Attacking them, they eventually would be defeated. Their strategy entailed "just hang in there" as the antiwar people in the United States would pull the US military out.

Back then, they had extensive Soviet and Chinese involvement with their political and military leadership. Not exactly the kind of entity that you want to hold regular trade with. We were trading with the South Vietnamese back then.

As the years progressed, things changed. One of those changes involves the Chinese, their former allies, bickering with them over Vietnamese territory off the Vietnamese coast.

China has established a nine dash line to indicate what they identify as their territory in the South China Sea. They practically claim almost all of the South China Sea, up to the territorial waters of the countries they're having political disputes with.

Guess what?

The United States has a strong desire to maintain the South China Sea as international territory. For the United States, this involves free shipment and movement through that area. That's guaranteed with that area maintaining its status as international waters. That's a stance of the United States takes.

This is consistent with Vietnam's views, as they have claimed territory in the South China Sea the same area that China has claimed.

This puts the United State on the side of Vietnam. Both countries oppose China's moves. This is not exactly the situation where Vietnam today is the Vietnam of 1975.

WTF: The folks that hate us in Iran are the Religious Nuts ... free trade with America will hurt their power.

Both those statements contradict each other. Many of those "religious nuts" are in charge of Iran. They, along with the other radicals, don't like the United States. However, free trade between Iran and United States would only strengthen those religious nuts, whether they are in power or not.

As long as they are in charge, free trade would not benefit the rank-and-file in Iran.

WTF: The special interests groups that profit from war are the one's against this deal and have spent millions convincing the average American that it is bad.

Wrong. This is not economically driven by those who "profit from war." The opposition stems from a true understanding of how people think in that area. When the enemy keeps saying that they will destroy you, and they intend to destroy one of your main allies, and they make moves and advertise that they are going to do such, this is a case where justification for the opposition is sound. It's based on fact.

This deal only benefits Iran. It does not benefit the United States, or its allies in the region, in the long run. This has nothing to do with "benefiting from war."

I'm definitely not a part of any interest group interested in the war machine making money, and I doubt the others in my side of the argument here are either.

WTF: It is bad like ending the Vietnam War was bad.

Ending the Vietnam War while we were winning, before we have set the conditions on the ground to secure the victory, was bad. The Democrats almost succeeded, but a Republican president forged on, forcing the North Vietnamese to the table. The US pulled out militarily in 1973, when conditions on the ground reset.

All the Democrat-controlled Congress had to do was to keep funding the South Vietnamese in order for them to keep holding off the North Vietnamese.

In both cases, the Democrats advocated a policy that involved reversing our victories into defeats.

Far too many people don't realize that the Vietnamese had gotten to the point to where they were on the verge of surrendering unconditionally. If only we continued to hammer them without letting off. Leave it to the Democrats to do otherwise. Leave it to the Democrats to change a resounding success in Iraq, and soon Afghanistan, into something else the benefits our enemies.

I'll tell you what is bad, a liberal's judgment.

WTF: I think this proxy war was enough....the majority of folks in both countries do not benefit from war.

You don't speak for the majority Iranian people. I was stationed with a service-member who originally came from Iran. The majority of the Iranian people want freedom and democracy in the style that they see from among the Western countries. Unfortunately, they do not call the shots. The radicals that hate the United States are truly in charge of Iran. He confirmed that.

The Iranian population tried to take things into their hands, via demonstrations. These demonstrations got stronger each time they happened. Obama ended up taking the winds out of their sails. A president with real leadership would have supported those guys. He would've capitalized movements in the Arab spring in a way that benefited their move toward democracy.

Saying that this "proxy war" was "enough" is basically throwing the towel in. This deal, with Iran, lowers US credibility. Conservatives are not the only ones that oppose it. The majority of the American public also opposes it.

WTF: Only a select few. That is who is beating the drums for war on both sides.

The supreme leader in Iran wanted the sanctions completely removed. He did not want sanctions to be "temporarily" removed, with the option of being re-implemented. He wanted it completely removed. That's what his opposition was.

The people that are opposing it here, are doing so based on being realistic. We have a ruling elite in charge in Iran that hates the United States, and pose a threat to our allies. The Iranians did not have to make any major concessions, like release of political prisoners, movement towards democracy, renouncing terrorism by act as well as voice, not supporting or funding terrorism, and many other important issues, as part of this deal. Originally Posted by herfacechair
well said, being a Vietnam Vet., I never understood why LBJ being the chicken shit he was bailed on the troops who served in Nam
well said, being a Vietnam Vet., I never understood why LBJ being the chicken shit he was bailed on the troops who served in Nam Originally Posted by gary5912
It was all about the ' legacy " for Lyin Lyndon ! Just like the idiot occupier of the half-White House now !
WTF's Avatar
  • WTF
  • 09-11-2015, 08:40 PM
well said, being a Vietnam Vet., I never understood why LBJ being the chicken shit he was bailed on the troops who served in Nam Originally Posted by gary5912
Please indicate when you believe we bailed out of Vietnam. ..who the President was at the time.

Are you saying LBJ should have run for another term?
cptjohnstone's Avatar
Please indicate when you believe we bailed out of Vietnam. ..who the President was at the time.

Are you saying LBJ should have run for another term? Originally Posted by WTF
after Nixon resigned, you donkeys were in control of Congress and you donkeys would not vote to supply SVN with one single bullet, I tell every SVN I am sorry
I tell every SVN I am sorry Originally Posted by cptjohnstone
Cap'n NoStones, we finally agree.

You are a "sorry"MOFO!
flghtr65's Avatar

The Iranians did not have to make any major concessions, like release of political prisoners, movement towards democracy, renouncing terrorism by act as well as voice, not supporting or funding terrorism, and many other important issues, as part of this deal. Originally Posted by herfacechair
Wrong. They have to give up the number one ingredient needed to make a nuclear bomb. They have to give up most of their "Enriched Uranium". You don't know anything about Physics. It takes a LONG time to convert Uranium that comes out of the ground into weapons grade U-235. That is why it will be at least 15 years before they get a nuclear bomb. They can start over the enrichment process in 10 years. If some rogue arms dealer had weapons grade U-235 or Plutonium- 239 for sale, that Iran could purchase, they would have already had a nuclear bomb by now. Were talking about quantities large enough to generate enough power to blow up a city. From the chart below that is from post #39, most of the enriched uranium shown, Iran will have to give up. If this chart is accurate about 10,000 KGS (Kilograms).

Please indicate when you believe we bailed out of Vietnam. ..who the President was at the time.

Are you saying LBJ should have run for another term? Originally Posted by WTF
For those of us who lived it, and as History has shown, we "bailed" in Vietnam the minute the so called "rules of engagement" were sent down.

In layman's terms, or better yet, GI terms, Rules of Engagement simply meant we had to fight fair, but our enemies could do pretty much anything they pleased.

I know that is over simplifying it, but that is what the entire endevour meant to most of the troops. General Giap pointed this out in his book. He pointed out how naive and stupid we were in our prosecution of that war.

Much like now. General Giap new that, and even admitted that the North Vietnamese did not have to "win battles". All they had to win was the Propoganda War, he was proven correct.

I wish General Giap would have been able to address a joint session of our Congress, and explain to our Leaders how we lost that war. Perhaps that would have helped us avoid some of the mistakes we continually make as we "prosecute" these various conflicts that we seem to be good at getting into, but bad getting out of.
Korea, ans Vietnam were both run by politicians, and the sad thing is they never learned they weren't worth a fuck at it.
Wrong. They have to give up the number one ingredient needed to make a nuclear bomb. They have to give up most of their "Enriched Uranium". You don't know anything about Physics. It takes a LONG time to convert Uranium that comes out of the ground into weapons grade U-235. .... Originally Posted by flghtr65
The Iranians haven't given up anything. They've promised to give up some of their enriched uranium. Does the US really know how much u235 Iran has or is it an educated guess? Seems to me without "anytime, anywhere" inspections we can't.

Please stop telling people they don't know anything about science. As Obama keeps telling us the Iranians have mastered the enrichment cycle, it won't take them as long again, even with promising to give up some centrifuges.

And by looking at the graph, it looks like the Iranians mastered the cycle on Obama's watch.

BTW, do you know WHO gets some of the enriched Uranium? The people who helped them obtain it! Its like a judge ordering me to give my guns to my brother down the street.

It's all a done deal anyway. Come Sept 19 the "treaty" is effect and again I doubt one major promise by Iran will have been fulfilled a year from now.

Thanks Obama.
Please indicate when you believe we bailed out of Vietnam. ..who the President was at the time.

Are you saying LBJ should have run for another term? Originally Posted by WTF
you need to read my post again dipshit I never said WE bailed I said LBJ bailed he Like the Idiot and chief in the WH now, was more worried about his legacy as the first American President to lose a war
you need to read my post again dipshit I never said WE bailed I said LBJ bailed he Like the Idiot and chief in the WH now, was more worried about his legacy as the first American President to lose a war Originally Posted by gary5912
+ 1 !!!!!!
herfacechair's Avatar
flghtr65: Wrong.

WRONG, as you've consistently been on this thread. What I said:

"The Iranians did not have to make any major concessions, like release of political prisoners, movement towards democracy, renouncing terrorism by act as well as voice, not supporting or funding terrorism, and many other important issues, as part of this deal." -- herfacechair


Where, in your response, did you address any of those factors? You didn't. Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

What I said is cold hard FACT. Nowhere in the agreement does it require the Iranians to do what's indicated in my quote. Nowhere in the Iran nuclear agreement is Iran required to make major concessions.

flghtr65: They have to give up the number one ingredient needed to make a nuclear bomb. They have to give up most of their "Enriched Uranium".

Wrong. Nowhere in Iran nuclear deal document does it say that Iran has to give up most of its "Enriched Uranium". All it does is "limit" the amount of enriched uranium that Iran could have. This is assuming that the Iranians disclosed everything that they had.

flghtr65: You don't know anything about Physics.

You don't know anything about operations, the text of the Iran nuclear deal, logistics, or anything else involving this argument. Also, I'm not giving you any information that would indicate what I did know, or don't know, regarding physics. This tells me that you are clueless about logic and critical thinking.

flghtr65: It takes a LONG time to convert Uranium that comes out of the ground into weapons grade U-235. [RED HERRING + STRAWMAN]

It doesn't matter. You're assuming that everything in the graph that you posted, on what was said regarding what the Iranians have, or what was guessed about what the Iranians have had, is accurate. Key is what the Iranians have that they did not declare, or what was not detected.

flghtr65: That is why it will be at least 15 years before they get a nuclear bomb.

Wrong. You're assuming that the restart for everything is right now, based on what was declared. I've stated repeatedly that any number thrown around, regarding when the Iranians would get the bomb, is arbitrary. You can't intelligently guess when they'll have a nuclear bomb without knowing for a fact what they have. You can't base that on anybody's assumptions of what Iran has.

flghtr65: They can start over the enrichment process in 10 years.

Wrong. The Iran nuclear agreement, as written, not only allows Iran to enrich uranium, but it also allows them to import it from other countries. The process is already ongoing.

flghtr65: If some rogue arms dealer had weapons grade U-235 or Plutonium- 239 for sale, that Iran could purchase, they would have already had a nuclear bomb by now.

Again, you're making assumptions. One person or another have made predictions as to when Iran would have the nuclear bomb. Some these predictions have really came to pass. The cold hard reality is that when they will detonate a nuclear bomb is up to anybody's guess.

Unless the Iranians are 100% truthful about what they have, nobody's going to know exactly what they have in their inventory. Based on that, nobody's going to be able to accurately predict when the Iranians will have a nuclear bomb. This agreement does nothing to stop what was supposed to averted. In theory, the agreement indefinitely "frustrates" the Iranians. However, the way it is written, it's easily cheatable, and does nothing to stop the Iranians from developing an atomic/nuclear bomb.


flghtr65: Were talking about quantities large enough to generate enough power to blow up a city.

This is where you know nothing about military matters. The Iranians don't need to develop a nuclear bomb that would be large enough to blow up an entire city. All they need is enough material for an atomic bomb to destroy a part of a city. That is what they will initially try to attempt. This will be enough to send psychological shockwaves around the world.

Look at what the North Koreans have. Lightweight compared to the most powerful nuclear weapons in the American and Russian inventories.


flghtr65: From the chart below that is from post #39, most of the enriched uranium shown, Iran will have to give up. If this chart is accurate about 10,000 KGS (Kilograms).

The chart is not accurate, as it is based on assumptions, and on what the Iranians were willing to admit. It's a guess from the start. That's not enough information to create a valid chart. Therefore, what they have to give up beyond a certain amount is anybody's guess. For it to work, the Iranians have to be 100% honest and declare everything they have.