Bartering

I see what atlcomedy is getting at, but his economics of word made it more difficult than it should have been to figure it out.

If I got it right the question that is being asked is:

If an accountant marketed his services to escorts would it be insulting to the accountant if the escort offered a barter arrangement?

I think it is fair to say that Lauren doesn't barter because she doesn't have to. Originally Posted by Pearl Man

I don't barter because I want to, not because I don't have to. It's not wise to make assumptions about someones income. There are ways to work with professional quality photographers, either by creating a system of payments after the photoshoot or doing trade for prints. So that when I can't afford it, I can still get photos done, without having to invite him into my bed.

If I am offering a photo shoot for $200 to $300 and a provider offers me a $200 to $300 session in exchange. I don't see a problem with it and I can accept the offer or not. Originally Posted by Pearl Man

If the provider offers that's fine.

My point is, I find it offensive when someone contacts me and asks "Would you like to barter services for my photography?" Or worse yet, when I write a photographer asking for a quote and he comes back with the suggestion we barter.

Because she needs to hang on to her $200 to $300 cash so she can pay the rent this month Originally Posted by Pearl Man

If you're really concerned about her inability to pay rent, then don't ask her to go to bed with you. Create a way she can pay you after she's made some money. Or if charity is what's on your mind, be charitable and do it for free. "I care enough to help you, only if you sleep with me"... I think that's disingenuous concern.

If an accountant marketed his services to escorts would it be insulting to the accountant if the escort offered a barter arrangement? Originally Posted by discreetgent

To me, yes. I'm happy to work with an accountant who offers services to escorts, but I want to pay him for his work with money. I don't want to be asked to provide sexual favours at any point in time when I'm dealing with a professional that offers ANY service.

I still don’t get the double standard accusation.

If someone doesn’t trade for services, either to get or to give: how is that a double standard?

If someone accepts that others may trade for services, but they don’t; how is that a double standard?

atl?

To me, yes. I'm happy to work with an accountant who offers services to escorts, but I want to pay him for his work with money. I don't want to be asked to provide sexual favours at any point in time when I'm dealing with a professional that offers ANY service. Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

WOW.

I see what atlcomedy is getting at, but his economics of word made it more difficult than it should have been to figure it out.

If I got it right the question that is being asked is:

If an accountant marketed his services to escorts would it be insulting to the accountant if the escort offered a barter arrangement? Originally Posted by discreetgent

I read that wrong earlier.

If an escort offers to barter with a professional, does he have the right to be offended?

I think so. I know of at least one photographer that finds it unsettling that women contact him with offers to exchange services. In fact his words to me were: "I just want to earn a living and pay my rent like everyone else!"

So when either side feels offended by the offer, how do the willing find each other, without annoying the unwilling in the process?

Lol.
Why not refrain from being offended, and accept good offers as they come, delete the sketchy/wierd ones...really, like any other networking tasks.

A business svcs board may be a good idea...didn't ASPD have one? How active&effective was it?

WAY back in my youth, I loved bartering. I used to buy/sell/trade racing bikes so much that I was known as "Ed of a 1000 bikes". Now, after seeing many deals, more often than not, one or both sides feel taken advantage of. One time, a friend was offered a "smoking deal" by one of his clients. When everything settled, he felt that the client was using the "great deal" as leverage to get a more favorable cash deal. I later found out, the client felt they earned more favorable terms on their contracts.

Now I won't barter at all. I feel your trying to cheapen my work by offering to barter. It causes more problems than it's worth.

Ed, who only barters in cash

I have to say that in my experience, the worst people for soliciting are photographers. They'll find you on your Eros ad and contact you offering a photo session for a BCD session. As a result photographers really creep me out. One of the reasons that I used Santillo on my last shoot was not just the quality of his work BUT more importantly the knowledge that he is a total pro with no seedy ulterior motive that was going to suface throughout the session. Photographers have a terrible reputation generally in this business. Terrible.

As for women bartering with men...I don't see how that could work for me. My lawyer and accountant are not in any way connected to the hobby. I would never use a client for these services. I want someone that is NOT involved in this business to help me so how would I approach them for a barter even if I was inclined to trade that way...which I'm not. I would think that would be really crass and insulting to them and they would be offended. I should make clear that I wouldn't use a lawyer or accountant that was a client in my daytime consulting job. What if I have a problem with that lawyer I am consulting for? He now knows far more about my buiness than he would were he just a client. Silly position to one self in.

I completely agree with the sentiment of avoiding bartering for professional services for all the good reasons mentioned above.

Having said that, this idea appeals to me greatly:

I love bartering! Anyone have a condo in one of the following ski resorts... Vail, Sun Valley, Deer Valley or Taos? Throw in airfare and i'm yours for the week. Originally Posted by Exotic Lily

What I am finding is that I don't spend money on myself "frivolously". Once I have the cash, it's saved or invested. Professional services are investment to me, hence I am happy to pay for them.

But I feel guilty spending cash on fun. I've been enjoying transition and non-profit work while building large savings that to me, signify the ultimate freedom to only ever do the work I want to do. Every time I spend a significant amount on something purely experiential, I feel that I am compromising that freedom.

So sometimes I wonder, if bartering could be a way around it, especially travel - since it is something I otherwise keep postponing indefinitely...

As for women bartering with men...I don't see how that could work for me. My lawyer and accountant are not in any way connected to the hobby. Originally Posted by Camille

I don't know about accountants, but in every state in the Union it is unethical for a lawyer to have sex with a client, and the lawyer can be disciplined for it, up to and including disbarment. Because of this penalty, I'd be very cautious with attorneys who want to trade services.

However, it is not unethical for attorneys to get money or goods for their services. I've known attorneys to take car titles, house titles and other merchandise in trade for services.

Invariably, this doesn't work out so well for the attorney. When the client is under the kind of stress that makes them seek out an attorney, they are most willing to pay whatever it will take for the attorney's protection. As time goes by, the client starts to believe that they could do as good or better as the attorney did on the issue (whether true or not), and that belief (false or not) causes the client to believe that s/he was cheated on the fee.

I think it's clear to see from this thread that people have strong opinions about bartering. We should respect each persons views on bartering.

Just my .02.

I do not put down anyone who makes arrangements that are mutually beneficial. I like the discrete dropping of the envelope with the required simoleans and having my fun, and exiting with a smile on my face. It is elegant,but business like and everyone goes home a winner. I don't like the idea of haggling and bartering and making a deal. For me it robs the anonymous pleasure I get from spending a quiet hour with my favorite lady, or two, and being finished and done.Exchanging sex for car repair or house painting or handyman services puts me too much into the lady's life when the whole point is staying pleasantly detached, but involved at the time I choose.
The whole deal about barter so a lady won't have to spend money she can't afford begs another question. If she cannot generate enough business to keep her bills paid, she is very likely to be the sort of provider who tells you her problems which causes me no end of penile shrinkage, which I really can't afford. No,money is just so convenient... and dare I say classier?

So when either side feels offended by the offer, how do the willing find each other, without annoying the unwilling in the process? Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

On aspd there was an exchange of services type forum towards the bottom of the main page.
Anyone could list their services and links to examples of their work and let it be known that they were willing to barter. It mostly had website designers and photographers.

I could very well be wrong in my opinion on this as it's based on personal reaction - I think offering to barter with a lady who can't afford her pictures is taking advantage of her state of poverty. . Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

What is the difference between a woman contacting a photographer and him paying her $500 to fuc and then she turns around and pays him $500 for pictures?

If what he charge's match's with what she charge's? Then really is there anyone taken advantage of anyone else?

What difference is there in bartering with a SO in regards to how 'open' their relationship becomes and this?

I believe the preception of a level/unlevel playing field is the only difference.


BACK TO BARTERING. If I wanted some pictures taken and a lady I wanted to fuc was a photographer and instead of her asking me for money, she politely asked for me to fuc her lenses out, I would not be offended. If she was butt ass ugly, I still would not be offended. I may go get paid by someone that was begging me to fuc'em and who I wanted to fuc and bring that money back to the butt ass ugly photographer. No offense to butt ass ugly photographers.

I don't barter because I want to, not because I don't have to. Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

Please translate.

Lol.
Why not refrain from being offended, and accept good offers as they come, delete the sketchy/wierd ones...really, like any other networking tasks. Originally Posted by Nineveh

Is this not the key to life folks?

People that are easily offended are the one's that think life is all about them, IMHO.

All that being said...I have just bought a new camera and my new bartering motto is..."My rates are your rates!" or should it be "Your rates are my rates"?

. . . my new bartering motto is..."My rates are your rates!" Originally Posted by WTF

That is just TFF!

But I feel guilty spending cash on fun. I've been enjoying transition and non-profit work while building large savings that to me, signify the ultimate freedom to only ever do the work I want to do. Every time I spend a significant amount on something purely experiential, I feel that I am compromising that freedom.

... Originally Posted by Thais

Some are focused on the journey, some the destination.