UTR: Pros in sheep's clothing....Deceptive?

Ahem, and I say this politely; ANY TIME YOU EXPECT A LADY TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU IN EXCHANGE FOR SPENDING MONEY ON HER, IT'S PLAY FOR PAY. And don't gimme that shit like she's not expected to.

We don't mention the males on these sites who want sex on the first date. Only then can I see the situation turning P4P. Because I'm not promiscuous in my real life, I could see myself quoting my rates to some loser who thought dinner and the promise of a monthly stipend would get me into bed.

But you want to know what I really find deceptive? A MARRIED ASS MAN trying to make a SINGLE woman feel like she owes him to be faithful at ANY POINT because he pays her. That finely-worded contract between him and his wife isn't enough to keep him faithful. Why would he expect fidelity from ANYONE?? Does the SB have grounds to be mad and with hold sex from her SD because he had sex with his wife? Unprotected, and potentially affecting HER health? Does she still get paid if she decides to stop fucking him like the wife? That is just confusing. And one-sided. This is why I gives two- no, THREE fucks what you professional young girl manipulators have to say about deception.

I know this statement seems to support the myth to some about Companions not being good Sugarbabies. But there are some real Sugardaddys out there who know nothing is for free, and they understand what they're doing. They're paying for companionship. Most of their wives wouldn't hang around without the money, so there's no difference. To say that because a woman can't be manipulated by some MUNDANE, UNPROVABLE, ONE-SIDED rule to be faithful to an unfaithful man that she can't be a good SB is a play on my intelligence. You can go somewhere else with that bull...

For the most part, a lady doesn't have to bill herself as some naive young demure young lady who's going to school or some broke single mom in order to get a sugardaddy. I'm proof of that. That concept only appeals to some men's need to deflower young girls and take advantage of needy women. Would it be deceptive of a woman who claims she's looking for quality men, and turn around and ask for money? Yes. Because there are some good ones out there. But there are some that let you know they're all about the fun.

What I would hope that you gents would understand is that you're either a man secure enough to know that it takes money to deal with women (especially if you like them) or you're not, and would like to dilute yourself to believing that young broke women will flock to you for your good looks alone without expectation of financial contribution to her book fund, or light bill. Whether a woman has ONE GOOD TRICK or a bunch, she's still a ho. Some of your wives are professional gold diggers, and knew exactly what to do to land you. Everything she said or did from the day she met you was a means to get a ring. The day you can see past the financial aspect of dealing with women and can see good in her, or something worth spending your money on, you have officially grown as a person.

You don't have to manipulate a woman to be a Sugardaddy.
<I think we need an intersession to allow the hobbyists a chance to regroup after Tiffani's post.....cause she just shut y'all asses DOWN>
Cpalmson's Avatar
I said maybe.

It depends on which site the girl is using. If it is a sugarbaby/sugardaddy site, then the answer is definitely no. It is not deceptive because every guy who goes to that site knows he is expected to pay in some form to get the sex. Now if she is on a site like Match.com or some other mainstream dating site, then yes, it is deceptive. Guys going onto those sites are not expecting to find a P4P relationship. Heck most guys going to these sites probably don't even know about the hobby world in detail. Matters become gray when talking about sites like Ashley Madison and other hook up sites. These sites are geared toward getting laid versus simple dating. On these sites, you have hobbyists looking for cheap or free sex. You also have non-hobbyists looking to get laid for whatever reason. While these types of guys probably wouldn't be shocked if a girl asked for some type of payment or assistance, they probably didn't expect to be asked.

I've been on all the types of sites mentioned. I've seen plenty of known providers in all locations. Since I'm in the hobby, it doesn't phase me to see a gal I know who is P4P. For me, I don't consider it deceptive, but I'm not the average guy who might be offended or taken aback with a blatant P4P approach.
Gotyour6's Avatar
I am getting confused.

I assumed that SD/SB relationships involved some sort of exchange of money for time spent together. I see many mentioning there is helping with bills.

So is the debate between a pro and a SB the rate and how long of time is spent together?

Ultimately both pros and SB are p4p.

Oh and the so call exclusivity - I am sure some are, some say they are, and well... Originally Posted by gigi_gypsy

You couldnt be more wrong on this.

This is what I am talking about.
Gotyour6's Avatar
<I think we need an intersession to allow the hobbyists a chance to regroup after Tiffani's post.....cause she just shut y'all asses DOWN> Originally Posted by ArisRose

Nope, Because she has no idea what a sugar baby is.

Sleep on the first date? Nope
Paid to be with me, nope
People think that an SB is cheap pussy. They are not a SD
People think that I pay so much for so many "Visits" Nope, hooker on retainer.
I have one of those already and he is my lawyer, he fucks me every time I see hime and i pay him good money for it.

Stop watching MTV and 60 minutes.

You all have money as first thing.
Get that out of your head.

I get sex out of my head as number one and I have been seeing the same SB for nine months.
Nope, Because she has no idea what a sugar baby is.

Sleep on the first date? Nope
Paid to be with me, nope
People think that an SB is cheap pussy. They are not a SD
People think that I pay so much for so many "Visits" Nope, hooker on retainer.
I have one of those already and he is my lawyer, he fucks me every time I see hime and i pay him good money for it.

Stop watching MTV and 60 minutes.

You all have money as first thing.
Get that out of your head.

I get sex out of my head as number one and I have been seeing the same SB for nine months. Originally Posted by Gotyour6
Please, I am perplexed. What exactly is a sugar baby? Am I in the wrong business?
Please, I am perplexed. What exactly is a sugar baby? Am I in the wrong business? Originally Posted by brownsugarbaby
Don't entertain his bullshit. He's full of shit.
Nope, Because she has no idea what a sugar baby is.

Sleep on the first date? Nope
Paid to be with me, nope
People think that an SB is cheap pussy. They are not a SD
People think that I pay so much for so many "Visits" Nope, hooker on retainer.
I have one of those already and he is my lawyer, he fucks me every time I see hime and i pay him good money for it.

Stop watching MTV and 60 minutes.

You all have money as first thing.
Get that out of your head.

I get sex out of my head as number one and I have been seeing the same SB for nine months. Originally Posted by Gotyour6

Do you honestly think that cute lil college co-ed would be with you if you were single and not giving her a thing? Not giving her any type of money, no gifts, no trips, no shopping?

If you give a chick money for her bills or tuition or rent or whatever...........its pay for play period.

And I do know what a true sugar daddy/sugar baby relationship is, as I've had 3 in the past.
There are many different ''kinds'' of sugar baby's.The kind i find are the single young moms or collage girls.They have busy schedules no time for dating. Are in need of some support but are not greedy or gold diggers and like a good sexual release that a older gentleman can provide.I have seen providers on SD sights they use some of there same pics you see on there ad's I don't even bother responding i am not looking at a per hour arrangement as a SD I still like seeing providers. I like all types of women do both SB and providers depending on what my time and tastes are for that day
stimulatethemind's Avatar
Really? This discussion/argument again? Seems to come up quite frequently here, with everyone expounding on their opinions regarding the SD/SB relationship and expressing that it must only be the way they see such an arrangement. That's somewhat like saying that marriage can only be the way one individual sees it. Every marriage is somewhat different and unique, so why can't the SD/SB relationship have variances? It's kind of like the discussion of what constitutes a GFE, which I'm sure will be surfacing again soon.

I have a SB, who I originally met as a client/provider. We have a wonderful, loving, caring and fun relationship. We are friends (with benefits) and I CHOOSE to help her financially. I provide a monthly allowance and some frequent gifts. I do not own her or attempt to control her in any way. We are not exclusive, as she has another SD arrangement as well as ours. What we do have is a wonderful relationship with all the good aspects of such and none of the bad qualities of most relationships. We do not judge each other and we are not in the least bit jealous. We see each other an average of twice per week and our time together is always fun. We do not necessarily share BCD activities on every date, although most times we do (because we want to, not because either of us feels we must). We go to dinners, shopping, the theatre and the symphony. We took a wonderful vacation together to Cancun. She is a highly intelligent woman, who is very caring and generous, an excellent conversationalist and has a great sense of humor. I love spending time with her. She has enriched my life so much in the seven months that we have been seeing each other and she tells me that her life is so much better as well.

So, where is the problem? Our relationship works for us even though it may not fit someone else's strict definition of a SD/SB. Why must it fit anyone's "label" of a SD/SB? Again, it works for us and we are both very happy just the way things are. Can't we all just agree that if a relationship works and makes both parties happy, it doesn't matter what you choose to call it??? Just quit bitching and go find whatever it is that makes you happy!!!
I wanted to start another topic after reading some crazy shit on myredbook.com (the westcoast is full of strange people). The subject of FWB came up and how to find a hot non-crazy female to pursue. Guys basically said if you don't look like Brad Pitt leave it alone, lol.

One thing I notice about guys looking for FWB (no money exchanged) is that they aren't looking to treat the woman as a friend, but more like an unpaid whore.
They expect that I'm supposed to burn my gas to go to them, spread my legs, and leave ASAP...........then they don't even eat ass and will get butthurt if I want to blow their hot buddy (but that's another topic for another day)! I have FWBs and they are true friends and we do all kinds of non-sexual things together: dirt bike riding, fishing, hanging out, cooking for me, etc., and are open to letting their friends join in. And I wouldn't even consider a married man for a FWB position simply for the fact they don't have any free time to spend with me.
I wanted to start another topic after reading some crazy shit on myredbook.com (the westcoast is full of strange people). The subject of FWB came up and how to find a hot non-crazy female to pursue. Guys basically said if you don't look like Brad Pitt leave it alone, lol.

One thing I notice about guys looking for FWB (no money exchanged) is that they aren't looking to treat the woman as a friend, but more like an unpaid whore.
They expect that I'm supposed to burn my gas to go to them, spread my legs, and leave ASAP...........then they don't even eat ass and will get butthurt if I want to blow their hot buddy (but that's another topic for another day)! I have FWBs and they are true friends and we do all kinds of non-sexual things together: dirt bike riding, fishing, hanging out, cooking for me, etc., and are open to letting their friends join in. And I wouldn't even consider a married man for a FWB position simply for the fact they don't have any free time to spend with me. Originally Posted by ArisRose
Well said. Sex is really only about 20 minutes of pleasure. True, "Free", Friend with benefits is exactly what it is...

FRIENDS with benefits! (Sex is the benefit)
It's not STRANGERS who are Horny! (SWAH?)

Friends do things together. It's much more appealing to me to look across the table during a dinner date and look forward to fucking the hell out of my "friend" than some stranger who's just a horny bastard.
One thing I've learned is that misogynistic hobbyists like to separated providers from civie women.

Providers are just about the money.
Civie women love me for who I am.

Sex with a provider is mechanical/scripted.
Sex with a civie is passionate.

You can't BB/DFK/DATY a provider.
You can BB/DFK/DATY a civie.

I would feel like a fool if my woman sucks many dicks.
I would feel like a king if my woman sucked only my dick.


From what I gather on other sites guys feel that there is an emotional involvement in the SD/SB world and that an undercover provider would only be playing the game and reciprocating real love. On MyRedBook I see guys going out of their way to comprise lists of ladies who are on dating/SB sites to warn potentials SDs.

Why y'all trying to act all macho and not say that your little heart is all delicate & shit and you just want to feel loved.
Cpalmson's Avatar
One thing I've learned is that misogynistic hobbyists like to separated providers from civie women.

Providers are just about the money.
Civie women love me for who I am.

Sex with a provider is mechanical/scripted.
Sex with a civie is passionate.

You can't BB/DFK/DATY a provider.
You can BB/DFK/DATY a civie.

I would feel like a fool if my woman sucks many dicks.
I would feel like a king if my woman sucked only my dick.


From what I gather on other sites guys feel that there is an emotional involvement in the SD/SB world and that an undercover provider would only be playing the game and reciprocating real love. On MyRedBook I see guys going out of their way to comprise lists of ladies who are on dating/SB sites to warn potentials SDs.

Why y'all trying to act all macho and not say that your little heart is all delicate & shit and you just want to feel loved. Originally Posted by ArisRose
You have a very interesting POV when it comes to guys, SBs and motivations behind one (guy or girl) entering into a SD/SB relationship. It is not as simplistic as you seem to make it appear. Granted, a lot of what you say is true to some degree. Yes, there are guys out there who adamantly feel a "real" SB can't come from a background of being pro in the sex business. There are some who think it is possible for a pro to be an SB. Then you have the motivation factors. Some guys love the thrill of the hunt. For them, a pro is not much of a challenge b/c she knows she is getting paid-- one way or another. For them, the non-pros are best b/c they have no expectations or limited expectations. As for the pro ladies, we all know what the motivating factor is; however, for the non-pro, they may or may not be aware of financial benefits that they may be able to reap from an SD/SB relationship. Also, some non-pros may look at assistance with rent, or paying a bill here and there, or tuition money to not be the same as being a provider or escort. You can't over simplify how one approaches this type of arrangement.

Also, I wouldn't go as far as to call some one misogynistic based on how they view providers and civie women. With a provider, it is a business transaction at the core of the matter. No matter how one looks at it; the bottom line is a P4P arrangement. There are no expectations of affection after the session is over. Sure during the session, there might be passion and intimacy beyond just the various acts. Heck, both people might actually "click", but at the end of the day, both people know the name of the game. Sure, they may even see each other again. That is why we call this an ATF.

Now, when it comes to civie relationships and even an SD/SB thing, it goes beyond a simple P4P arrangement. Hopefully with this type of arrangement, there are some types of mutual feelings. Both parties might consider the financial arrangement to be of secondary importance when compared to having a good time together. In a civie or SD/SB arrangement, one party should be able to call the other party (with reasonable notice) to set up a date and have a good time together without the notion of payment or assistance coming into play. With this type of arrangement, the parties see time together as a very important aspect of the relationship.

It really is too complex to make it one size fits all. I'm sure there are other situations and factors that I haven't even considered. That is what makes it complex, but enticing.
Really? This discussion/argument again? Seems to come up quite frequently here, with everyone expounding on their opinions regarding the SD/SB relationship and expressing that it must only be the way they see such an arrangement. That's somewhat like saying that marriage can only be the way one individual sees it. Every marriage is somewhat different and unique, so why can't the SD/SB relationship have variances? It's kind of like the discussion of what constitutes a GFE, which I'm sure will be surfacing again soon.

I have a SB, who I originally met as a client/provider. We have a wonderful, loving, caring and fun relationship. We are friends (with benefits) and I CHOOSE to help her financially. I provide a monthly allowance and some frequent gifts. I do not own her or attempt to control her in any way. We are not exclusive, as she has another SD arrangement as well as ours. What we do have is a wonderful relationship with all the good aspects of such and none of the bad qualities of most relationships. We do not judge each other and we are not in the least bit jealous. We see each other an average of twice per week and our time together is always fun. We do not necessarily share BCD activities on every date, although most times we do (because we want to, not because either of us feels we must). We go to dinners, shopping, the theatre and the symphony. We took a wonderful vacation together to Cancun. She is a highly intelligent woman, who is very caring and generous, an excellent conversationalist and has a great sense of humor. I love spending time with her. She has enriched my life so much in the seven months that we have been seeing each other and she tells me that her life is so much better as well.

So, where is the problem? Our relationship works for us even though it may not fit someone else's strict definition of a SD/SB. Why must it fit anyone's "label" of a SD/SB? Again, it works for us and we are both very happy just the way things are. Can't we all just agree that if a relationship works and makes both parties happy, it doesn't matter what you choose to call it??? Just quit bitching and go find whatever it is that makes you happy!!! Originally Posted by stimulatethemind
Thank you!