Fighting the Guilt

Jack, I'm not passing judgement on anyone, and I am no saint. ...

I guess my point is that if you have an SO, and you are seeing other people to have your sexual needs met, and you do not have your SOs expressed permission to do so, you are cheating. Yes, it is that simple.

Everyone can delude themselves into believing that it is ok by whatever mental gymnastics they have to preform to come up with a rational reason. All I'm saying is if you think it is ok, then why not tell your SO? And for those that really think their SO doesnt know after years of them not having sex, that is the biggest delusion of all. They may not want to admit it or confront it, but they know when they are being cheated on. Trust me, I've been on that side of the fence. Originally Posted by Das Ubersoldat

I invented 'NormalBob' because I felt like I had spent many, many years making sure those around me were taken care of. After spending over nine months in a combat zone and coming back to a hardened wall and menopause, I felt entitled to:

- Sex
- Hot sex
- Some deep intimacy and honesty
- A chance to shut the doors with incredibly beautiful women who were experts are various forms of fucking

'NormalBob' was an invention of selfish self-interest on selfish steroids.

But...

I never have been more honest with anyone let alone with women than I have been as a hobbyist.

Guilt?

Yes, but....

Integrity with the wife?

Not fully, but...

I wish I were perfect, but...

'NormalBob' could die and I could focus my energies on healthier, less selfish things. If that were to happen, it would be 1/30th of a marriage working through the weird shit life throws at you if you stay with someone long enough.

I hadn't realized that there was such hostility in this community towards married guys straying as I've seen in the past month. It's been a fascinating exposure of perspectives.

Das, don't get me wrong. My remark was not directed at you, or most other single guys who do not take a black-and-white stand on this issue.

While i don't think anyone would feel the need to hide from anyone the fact they stole a key from some terrorist, or killed someone in self defense (on the assumption they'd be believed, of course), not one person in here has indicated they've been willing to be open with their wives about what it is they do. Originally Posted by Doove

Das, don't get me wrong. My remark was not directed at you, or most other single guys who do not take a black-and-white stand on this issue. Originally Posted by jackfengshui

As another that does not take a black-and-white stand on this issue. I would hide the fact, if I took a key from terrorist. Or that I have killed. And that I am in the hobby from others not in the hobby that I know of. Other than a few not in the hobby, but on this board.

Of the single males on this board there are 3 types. Never married, the divorced( not living with and legally separated), and the widowed(is that the right term for a male). I am not surprised that a male that is single again from "till death do us part", may have a stronger leaning to not hobby if married. But I am not sure if there is a good way for a male(or female) widow with this view. To sugar coat his view with out ruffing the feathers of the guys, and a few providers that are married. Most providers that I know that got married gave up the hobby. If they came back they are divorced, or started the paperwork to that end. But a few are married.

One provider that I know that is married. Well is she really. She got married in her 20's. Problems started with in 6 months. At about a year he hit her(not open hand, in a closed fist.). She walked out, never looked back. He did not look for her that she knows of. She never filed, never looked to see if he did. Never got mail about it. She is now in her 40's. So if the law says she is still married. One more thing to add to a very long list of things not right that needs to be fixed.

PS: and do not most providers that are married, not tell most of us of the fact she is. Thinking it would keep some from seeing her. Yet not me being married is that others persons problem, not mine. For at one time rather/other than P4P. I would hit chat rooms with the name "Men are form Mars, Women are from Venus". till a few close calls, then P4P was the way the go, as I saw it.

I hadn't realized that there was such hostility in this community towards married guys straying as I've seen in the past month. It's been a fascinating exposure of perspectives. Originally Posted by NormalBob

I think "hostility" is a bit of an overstatement, at least as it relates to the viewpoint of the majority of single guys. I get the sense that most are simply stating what they feel is the reality of it, without actually passing judgment on the gentlemen involved. I, for one, realize that without the married hobbiest, there'd likely be no providers. So for that, i salute all of you. Well, ok, most of you.

Though i will say, there are some married men who i believe take their overall involvement in the hobby to such a level that it far exceeds any legitimate justification.

Doove, you're right.

In essentially one year, I've reviewed over 90 times and have probably met on a P4P basis another 30 times. That's about twice a week for a year.

I've made some mistakes along the way. It's been crazy. I've been crazy.

But, I've always remembered that two of my aunts raised my dad by hooking. His job was to change his sister's sheets and put fresh toilet paper out between clients while he was between the ages of 12 and 14.

This perspective on what a provider goes through to take care of her family has always been part of my hobbying while I've gone totally nuts as a hobbyist.

I don't think "hostility" towards married hobbyists is an overstatement based on the past month of threads. It's out there.

Here are my worst mistakes in the past year:

[Staff edit by jackfengshui: Inappropriate content involving ECCIE Private areas removed]

- I had an appointment for a duo and bought some toys. This was my first duo and I was not able to contain myself. I ended up putting the toys on her porch while texting her continuously so that they would be taken in and cleaned for our appointment. Big mistake. I should have just backed off and brought the toys in later since the provider hadn't given me permission to drop them off. My juvenile jumping about in excitement of my first duo caused me in part to be stupid.

- I wept in China Doll's arms as I talked about my life's biggest regret. I supported my future bride as she decided to abort a child of ours out of wedlock. Worst example of failing to be a man in my life. There was something about the sweetness of China that let me feel open enough to be vulnerable in that moment. Dumb.

- I thought I was a better judge of character than I really am. Several providers that I thought I knew pretty well stunned me during a period of false accusations. A few were pretty great though in trusting what they knew about me instead of what was said about me.

- I lent a provider $5K because she was in a usury situation. To her great credit, despite a shit storm, she has continued to repay me ahead of our previously agreed upon repayment plan. This was stupid on my part on several levels but I'm impressed she has shown the integrity to continue repayment.

- I made some other mistakes like being rude to Anita Germaine when I was undergoing my initial screening, getting too intrusive with Erica, approaching Gabrielle with too much familiarity too quickly and...well, I'm sure a woman in Binghamton thinks I was horrible but she's just wrong. When you go from never doing this shit to doing it twice a week, you're likely to make a few mistakes.


The biggest mistake of all was not knowing how to talk to my wife after nearly 30 years of marriage about her needs, my needs and why we were having such trouble after my being away for a year.

'NormalBob' needs to die and I need to return to my real life with much better focus.

I may have a disease though that keeps me from killing the bastard.

What I've NEVER done:

[Staff edit by jackfengshui: Inappropriate content involving ECCIE Private areas removed]

While I'm chucking stones at your glass house, I'm saddened to admit that I've been a pathetic individual, devoid of the character I aimed for in my youth. 'NormalBob' deserves to return to his status as an imaginary character existing largely, if not entirely, in my memory.

[Staff edit by jackfengshui: Quote of Post #50 removed]

Make that to the fourth power. You should have never volunteered that information here.

....uh, okay....that about wraps up this thread!

NB my friend, . I can not think what more to say at this time.

NB,

My feelings for you are, i'm sure, no secret. But i'll applaud you for this post.

I hope you're able to follow through in at least taking a few steps away from the hobby and back in the direction of your family. Good luck.

Though i will say, there are some married men who i believe take their overall involvement in the hobby to such a level that it far exceeds any legitimate justification. Originally Posted by Doove

I agree. While my own self-imposed parameters may seem a bit extreme, they are what I think makes sense. I require surrogacy for sex and more or less normal male/female interaction.

All that really justifies in and of itself is periodic visits with one woman. And 75% of all my hobby visits have indeed had that intent. However, providers have moved, retired, or in one case tried to turn me into their real BF. So then there is some searching.

What I have settled on is 8 visits a year, 5 of which are with the same woman, and 3 of which are with other women; of which no more than two can be with people I have not already seen. So no more than two new sex partners a year. This allows me the flexibility to be able to replace the services of whatever lady I usually see when she moves, retires, etc. plus prevents me from becoming too attached. Of the 4.5 years I've hobbied, two of those years I was able to have no new sex partners. So far, in that time, I have had 9 sex partners, 4 of whom moved or retired. Some years I can't squeeze in 8 visits. Sometimes it has been as few as 4.

I don't worry too much about the fees as long as they fit the yearly and per-session budget I established. The budget is derived from half the interest on money I put in the bank long ago from book royalties; and doesn't come from regular income. I don't roll the budget over from year to year.

I try to choose really great women -- and so far I have had good luck; and remain friends with all providers I have ever seen except one; including those who have moved/retired.

The fact my wife can't do the sex thing doesn't justify me sleeping either with large numbers of women, having gobs of appointments, or with women that I wouldn't otherwise choose to sleep with under other circumstances.

Wow, somehow I feel as if I yelled "fire" in a crowded movie theater. I guess it is good to know that the feelings I am having are not unique. And even though the conversation got heated, I do appreciate all the suggestions and, most of all, I like the honesty of everyone. The passion of the opinions means that you care, and, that is a good trait.

I have yet to pull the trigger because I would rather be 100% in the decision I make and make it a little later than do something half-assed. I am taking some time and trying to understand what is important to me and the reasons I am doing what I am doing.

So, once again, thanks ladies and gentleman for all the information. If you can think of anything you want to add, PM me, I am around.

Have Fun!

Guy

I am taking some time and trying to understand what is important to me and the reasons I am doing what I am doing. Originally Posted by guyincognito

Fantastic Guy. Very wise.

I don't know about anyone else......but I have looked at this topic multiple times since I first saw the weekend posts, on Monday morning......

.......and certain of these posts remind me of a horrible train wreck....I don't want to look....but can't help myself, by staring at the carnage.....

Ouch. Ouch. Ouch........

I've spent an hour trying to compose this....and quite honestly,
words simply fail me. (For once, some might say....)........

elg.....

PS....I thought this was supposed to be fun, as someone once said. Sheesh......

I don't know about anyone else......but I have looked at this topic multiple times since I first saw the weekend posts, on Monday morning......

.......and certain of these posts remind me of a horrible train wreck....I don't want to look....but can't help myself, by staring at the carnage.....

Ouch. Ouch. Ouch........

I've spent an hour trying to compose this....and quite honestly,
words simply fail me. (For once, some might say....)........

elg.....

PS....I thought this was supposed to be fun, as someone once said. Sheesh...... Originally Posted by elghund

Yeah dude.

I used to wonder why the hell providers charged so much, I mean sex is fun who the hell charges for that.

After reading some of this shit it's like, they should be paid more.

From a Provider's standpoint: Recap Everyone on here has their own reasons for hobbying as we are all grown adults with individual circumstances and individual reasons that have led to the hobby. Who is to say what is right or wrong with someone else's life and the choices we chose to make within our own individual lives? Fact of the matter is the basis of the hobby to being with is Fantasy and Escape from Reality. From my standpoint as a provider the hobby is so much more than just entering into the phyisical realm of possibily it provides to some extent an individual psychological need as well and once that Fantasy encounter has ended it becomes much easier for the most part to return to Reality. It has all the benefits and possiblities of taking a 2 wk vacation in the space of an hr...