Degeneration

I am amazed to find myself agreeing to a large extent with the general thrust Woodyboyd; except I'll note that a difference in opinion over matters of economic interpretation in the referenced thread is not necessarily a form of trying to make women nod their heads.

The simple fact is that controversial subjects where a person will deviate from the politically correct view are THE subjects where actual progress is made. Nothing is ever advanced by adhering to conventional wisdom.

The problem is that the forces of political correctness have harnessed powerful sociological forces in their service. Specifically, mechanisms such as dynamic silence and pathologization of dissent. In essence, anyone who espouses a viewpoint outside orthodoxy may even be subjected to economic sanction along with ostracism.

Self-interested parties have made (or attempted to make) many topics a third-rail in terms of discussion within a variety of realms.

Medically, anyone who doesn't believe humans should be eating a grain-based diet is seen as a kook. Anyone who thinks a sales/businesswoman should be subject to negotiation is seen as disrespectful, etc.

Your example on the divergence of IQ at the extremes is, in fact, true. However, I am not convinced that IQ tells the entire tale about what constitutes "intelligence." Certainly, it is predictive of success in certain arenas; but if you have ever met highly intelligent people still living in their parents' basement and playing video games all day, you know there is more to the equation of intelligence -- there are also the personality traits necessary to make that intelligence effective.

woodyboyd - "When I was in college, a friend of mine chastised me for telling a woman the truth. He said, "Woody, what you said was exactly right, but you don't tell women the truth if you want to get anywhere with them. You have to tell them what they want to hear."


That's so funny! That's what women tend to think of men.

@ WTF - quotes by “. .” translated [BTW I do not speak or read Greek – the second quote was/is a challenge]

ἁρμονίη ἀφανὴς φανερῆς κρείττων

“A hidden connection is stronger than an obvious one.” ~ Heraclitus


Πᾶσα γυνὴ χόλος ἐστίν· ἔχει δ᾿ἀγαθὰς δύο ὥρας·
τὴν μίαν ἐν θαλάμῳ, τὴν μίαν ἐν θανάτῳ

“Every woman is bitter [flawed]; she has two [good] hours [times or sides]/Once [one] in bed and once [one] when dead.” ~ Palladas of Alexandria


“It's no surprise the 'Good Old Days' seem better than the Present ... They've spent more time in Editing!”
TOM WILSON, Ziggy.

I agree with Leah. The guys are bigger assholes and the women providers today are simply not as good as they used to be. Definitely degenerated to me and somewhat regressive. Used to you could actually look in the provider ads on ASPD and find a decent courtesan fairly easily. More and more today you find street trash with 43 piercings and 22 different artworks. Spelling is a lost art as is knowing how to be a lady and a gentleman in the hobby. Even P411 has been overrun with ex-Craigslist providers. You can do better at Walmart on Saturday night. It is getting harder and harder to find quality. I DO NOT miss the Diva Minded psycho bitches.

Exceptions noted. Originally Posted by Introuble

Absolutely. And really, I'm not saying that to be contentious.

It's a sad fact that many men today use the present economic crisis to degrade and manipulate women even more. In or out of the business. What I feel sadder for is the girls who try to get some decent behaviour out of the business. It's a sad and bizarre fact that one often gets better treatment in this business. Go figure.

And if you haven't noticed that - you are so in the minority it's amazing.

If someone is going to complain about psycho-bitches, please be specific as to which psycho-bitch. There have been so many over the years. Originally Posted by pjorourke

True.

Although I'm not going to mention names as I'm so not going to get into some petty bitch-fest which is a waste of time for me.

“It's no surprise the 'Good Old Days' seem better than the Present ... They've spent more time in Editing!” - TOM WILSON, Ziggy. Originally Posted by I B Hankering

No shit, Sherlock! That's about the best one I've seen about "The Good Old Days."

I'm still trying to be the best degenerate possible.....

It's a sad fact that many men today use the present economic crisis to degrade and manipulate women even more. Originally Posted by Leah Ireland

And this is wrong because...why? It's an evolutionary rule. Survival of the fittest.

And this is wrong because...why? It's an evolutionary rule. Survival of the fittest. Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Originally Posted by FLWrite

True.

...I'm so not going to get into some petty bitch-fest which is a waste of time for me. Originally Posted by Leah Ireland

But oh so entertaining for us.

But oh so entertaining for us. Originally Posted by FLWrite

Word!!

Your one liner about telling men what they wanted to hear was great. Olivia's post was insightful as was WTF's. PJ linking the intelligence studies took balls, and Laurenitis agreeing with someone he previously clashed was refreshing. Still, political correctness and pettiness were in a far too abundant quantity.

Sure most women do like money; but even the most greedy woman I've ever met wasn't really fully motivated by money alone. Originally Posted by ..

Here we go again with making women nod by telling a half truth that is positive about women. I agree and admire the fact that women care less about money when it comes to employment, but when it comes to a potential spouse, money is a much more important factor for women than men.

You seem to take great pride in that thread. "Popular" or most posts doesn't make it the best, most interesting or even on topic, but if you want to put that on your C.V. knock yourself out Originally Posted by atlcomedy

ATL, when I read a response from you to me, I know that is going to be a personal insult with the goal of censorship. Here is a novel idea. If you want to shut me up about starting the most popular thread, start up your own and beat it. I think it is pretty clear to everyone by now that I am not your favorite person.

You're not in college now. If you still believe that approach holds then I would say there is your problem...

You are not invested enough in people on an internet forum such as this to want to spend time balancing honesty with tact (and that's generally de rigeur on most parts of the web) but conversely, don't expect people to respond as though you are using that balance...which is what my first post in this thread pertained to. Originally Posted by Camille

Camille before I even read a word you post, I see you respond to me and the words that spring to mind are judgmental, patronizing, and piling on, and you did not disappoint.

You can't balance honesty with anything other than dishonesty. Tact in this sense is equivalent to lying, political correctness, and/or making women nod. I will admit that when it comes to personal comments, white lies are fine, however, outside of that, why should I or anyone else have to balance honesty with dishonesty? That is the number one reason I think the forum has gone down since the early ASPD. Some women are not secure enough to handle the truth, and some men are too chicken to tell it.

Natalie's post I wouldn't put in the petty or PC category, but I think it is worth looking at.

Another variation is the women who insist to men that they only have male friends, because guys are "cooler," "more fun" and "less catty" or "dramatic" than women. I've heard this a lot, and to borrow from Mr. Maher, I'd say it makes men nod. We all like to be flattered, don't we? Originally Posted by Natalie

That doesn't make me nod, and I don't find it flattering. The phrases "less catty" and "dramatic" are codes for how feminine values have become mainstream. Maher's examples were "Feelings are more important than fact" and the real issue for me on this forum "Sensitivity is more important than truth."

Maher then says, "I get it. There are millions of women who are steely eyed realists and men who are anything but."

I am not sure if the HDHs that were my favorites were so much realists as just secure enough to handle alternate POVs, but their tolerance allowed the forum to be a unique place. People could post anything without being beaten over the head and called insensitive.

My example with the intelligence studies had nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with sensitivity, truth, and tolerance.

Using PJ's data, there are four times more male morons than female ones, but four times more male geniuses. This is a completely neutral study but look at where the emphasis was here and what got Summers fired. People ran to discredit or minimize the female genius number but were mum on the male moron number. That is what is so sad.

In the distant ASPD forums, the data would be accepted and discussed not discredited. As for the male geniuses I have seen, about half are socially inept, yet I can't recall social ineptness in any extremely intelligent woman I have met. Autism/Asperger's is much more common in men than women and may be due to testosterone at the fetal level. Many of these men are Rain Man like idiot savants with numbers. The reason then that there may not be a female equivalent of Bill Gates may not be because men are smarter than women, but rather that women have less Asperger's, a condition affecting Mr. Gates.

Here we go again with making women nod by telling a half truth that is positive about women. I agree and admire the fact that women care less about money when it comes to employment, but when it comes to a potential spouse, money is a much more important factor for women than men. Originally Posted by woodyboyd

woodyboyd, no disagreement here! Fully agree!

(You can't buy integrity and once you lose it no amount of money can buy it back.)

Πᾶσα γυνὴ χόλος ἐστίν· ἔχει δ᾿ἀγαθὰς δύο ὥρας·
τὴν μίαν ἐν θαλάμῳ, τὴν μίαν ἐν θανάτῳ

“Every woman is bitter [flawed]; she has two [good] hours [times or sides]/Once [one] in bed and once [one] when dead.” ~ Palladas of Alexandria Originally Posted by I B Hankering

some better translations at least point out the most obvious word play:
http://books.google.com/books?id=HAxf0GR8KBoC&pg=PA341

(the other puns are more subtle, and require a very good command of ancient greek to parse and comprehend them -- still it's quite hard to explain them and impossible to translate.)

ps: I do like I B Hankering's translation of χόλος as bitter / flawed, since it means bile / gall in the proverbial symbolic sense, not bile as real bile. Unfortunately it's impossible to give an exact translation.

Here we go again with making women nod by telling a half truth that is positive about women. I agree and admire the fact that women care less about money when it comes to employment, but when it comes to a potential spouse, money is a much more important factor for women than men.

Not anymore. It's not unheard of to meet a man whose wife makes more than he does. I've heard a man at his bachelor party say he's basically getting married because "Two incomes are better than one", and more often I hear men say they're afraid to leave because they've gotten used to a standard of life that their combined income allows.

The times have changed, and it will become increasingly more common - the rise if te female professional is also the rise of the male companion. These stereotypes are becoming less and less based on gender, more and more based on economic class.

This thread has a lot of generalizations - which is really an excuse to make judgements on people because you can't be bothered to learn about individuals. A few bad experience is no excuse to write off a group of people, instead learn to be a better judge of character.