My apologies, I conflated the Obamacare mandate that forced everyone to purchase insurance or pay a penalty. That part wasn't constitutional and was pushed via Supreme Court.
Originally Posted by Aoi
Apology accepted. I'll go further and say that Obamacare, despite dealing with a glaring inadequacy in our healthcare (pre-existing conditions), was like replacing a flat tire with your steering wheel. It keeps the car rolling but into territory you don't want to be in. If you have to mandate people to pay into it for it to work, but the mandate is unconstitutional, moving the mandate to tax code is stepping around the process by which these things should go through. What we really need is a European-style multi-payer system or single-payer, but that is a can of worms I'd rather not open.
Conjectures? Yes. But things that should be investigated? Absolutely. If Biden did win and I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. I have no problem in saying that Pedo Joe won the election. But that does not mean questions shouldn't be answered with scrutiny the way Dems always seem to do with Trump.
Originally Posted by Aoi
What evidence have you claimed in any of our past discussions? Your position the vaccine mandate is all over the place and doesn't line up philosophically. And when I questioned you about it, you didn't respond once.
See, when the other guy is rebutting you point by point and you routinely chicken out and strawman, you calling them delusional holds no merit.
Originally Posted by Aoi
Dude, I have provided so many links for a lot of my positions! I don't think I've made any argument that wasn't backed up by evidence. And I think we've both been going point by point, but I have tried to focus on rebutting your points and not strawmanning you. You have, on the other hand, called me a lemming, a government cuck, an authoritarian, a democrat, and I think that's just in this post alone.
Oh, okay. So, when the Democrats cried "The Russians did it, the Russians did it!" about Trump in 16, The house (which was controlled by the Dems) spent north of 10 million dollars on an "investigation" and congressional hearings. That's okay to you? But when conservatives say "hey, that's not normal" regarding numerous irregularities, social media, the mainstream media, and everyone actively censors any and all talk about the election.
Originally Posted by Aoi
The Mueller thing was a huge fucking waste of time for everyone involved because it wasn't going to show any kind of tampering with the actual process of the election (of which there was none). Did the report show a foreign nation trying to influence voters. Yes. But how many other social media advertisements were paid for with foreign donations? It's all public. Was the hacking portion criminal? Sure. Did it make our election more transparent? Undoubtedly. It showed that the DNC was snubbing the popular candidate. We should be thanking those hackers.
Two differences between 2016 and 2020. Number one, evidence. There was a breach and the emails were released to the public. That is HARD evidence of mischief, none of which has been substantiated for 2020. Number two, the Democrats did not contest the
facts of the election. Going off of the evidence of the hack, they investigated but did not question the legitimacy of the government. It did also result in a bunch of indictments for crimes as Trump's associates tried to cover their asses. Giant clown circus on all sides.
But ultimately, this is unrelated to the 2020 election. It's just a "what-about [x]" instead of addressing the lack of evidence for a stolen election.
And you call me delusional? Let's say, for the sake of argument, I'm wrong. Why haven't there been any largescale congressional movements regarding that? Did the Republican's hire a special prosecutor like the Dems hired Mueler to look into "Russia!"? Nope.
Originally Posted by Aoi
How many dozens of lawsuits were filed in the days after the election contesting it?
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-f...-idUSKBN2AF1G1
The Arizona Republican party just concluded an audit where they
DID hire someone to look into their election and now Texas is doing the same. Maybe delusional is too strong a word and I apologize, but what do you call this if not a refutation to your point?
Btw, I say conservatives because the Republicans are even worse that Democrats and do not represent anything their constituents believe.
Originally Posted by Aoi
Well, we have some common ground there. It's why I'm not a Democrat.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/electio...de-11609962846
Originally Posted by Aoi
Let me give you the subheading of the article you just linked:
"President Trump’s campaign and its allies
have lost dozens of court cases challenging President-elect Joe Biden’s win"
A debunked claim does not constitute evidence.
Are you fucking stupid? When Trump won in 2016, half the country went crazy and there were literal protests and riots. Following up with nonstop crying about how America is racist and how Trump is racist and all that same tired Democrat bullshit. And celebrities even tried to get the electoral college to change their votes because "morals"
You say I don't live in the real world, but you can't even bring this up? Fuck. off.
Originally Posted by Aoi
Tell me: did I say there weren't protests? Did I say there weren't riots? No, it definitely happened in both years, don't strawman me on this. Protests I'm definitely cool with. Riots, I'm not, and I'll condemn them on both sides. But the difference between the two responses was the conduct of the losing candidate.
Oh, and Clinton didn't incite a riot that broke into the Capitol, there was that too
They censored the incredibly damning Biden tapes of him blackmailing a Ukrainian prosecutor over Bursima holdings. Posts were literally deleted about this on FB and Twitter. The mainstream media routinely ignored the numerous racist and damning Biden statements. After the election, Trump was kicked off Twitter.
You're right. You don't know what to say because you clearly don't know a thing. But that's par for the course for you.
Originally Posted by Aoi
The Burisma thing is still in the news though, which is good. The corruption and influence-peddling has to stop, and this back and forth whataboutism isn't helping us get money out of politics. It's bullshit and no one should cover for Hunter Biden.
Trump was booted from twitter because he used the platform to incite a riot. That's not censorship, it's consequences.
I don't follow Mike Lindell beyond having purchased some of his pillows. Why is he relevant again? He isn't. If you look on any social media and Youtube content, people literally cannot question the results of the election for fear of strikes and/or content removal. That's why when independent Youtubers mention Biden winning the election, they have to preface it by saying "I am not sayng "Biden lost but..." Seriously, go to any conservative Youtuber. This is the same thing with the vaccine. People literally can't say "Don't take the vaccine" or there will be hell to pay by the powers that be.
Originally Posted by Aoi
First, let's establish that the federal government is not behind any of this censorship. They have filed no suits (except against protestors that broke into the Capitol).
These companies have decided to censor this content because they have deemed it dangerous misinformation and don't want it on their platforms. I generally disagree with that assessment, I think people can make up their own minds and judge the validity of information on their own (even if they don't actually do it). The judgment that it's "dangerous" kind of makes sense if you view it as dangerous to the institutions that guarantee our rights.
Do I think Trump won every county that he's bitching about? Nope. Is it possible he lost some? Absolutely. I have no problem in saying Trump lost in 2020 fair and square on vote counts alone. However, to say it was a fair election with the mainstream media actively protecting Biden and creating narratives for Trump would be ignorant. When all of the institutions protect one candidate and actively judge and lie about the other, that's cheating.
Originally Posted by Aoi
If your issue is the partisan nature of personality-driven news media, I'm right there with you. It absolutely divides us more than it should. MSNBC, Fox, CNN, I think all of their anchors are a net-negative.
But let's be careful about word choice here. "Cheating" and unfair" could imply voter fraud, and not partisan bias, which you appear to mean.
Also, Trump won in 2016. Do you think the left-wing media was more fair to Trump in 2016 and that's why he won?
I do live in the real world. And in this real world, sometimes we have to ask questions instead of going by what everyone says. Sometimes, we should listen to the people who do speak these fringe ideas. And yes, sometimes those concerns turn out to be nothing. If I'm wrong about something or are proven wrong about something, so be it.
Originally Posted by Aoi
Absolutely. I totally agree with you, up to a point. Assertions require evidence, and if none can be found, well... at what point do you stop listening to the fringe?
Let's say someone believes in unicorns. Now I can't absolutely say unicorns don't exist (you can't prove a negative, after all). And maybe I look everywhere this person says they've seen them and don't find them. Maybe I was unlucky, and maybe they're just good at hiding. There is still that tiny percent chance that I'm wrong. However, I'm not going to make any important life decisions based on that tiny chance.
But you, OTOH.. Tell me, when are you going to stop being such an authoritative ass hole who wants everyone to do what you (or the people you support) wants? When are you going to stop hiding behind your "the rest of us"? When are you going to stop being such a fucking lemming who only follows the big crowds?
Originally Posted by Aoi
How did all this straw get in my shirt again?
