Just Curious...The 14th Amendment Debate What Do You Think?

The bottom line is that we as a country are screwed. We can easily, remove (deport) most foreign born nationals, criminal and non-criminals, from the Western hemisphere, with the exception of Cubans. And there is nothing special about Cubans.

It is the rest of foreign national we should worry about. And I am talking about
continents, not countries. Asia, Europe, Africa. We cannot remove/deport them unless we have that country's permission. But we let them in as refugees or visitors. And both are bogus.

We should just load them up planes, and return them to the continent they come from and let them play "Survivor" for real.

Or better yet, equip them and send them send then to Iraq or Afghanstan. That will be the best remedy from them coming back.

That will solve the Immigration dilemain the United States.

If the United States would treat each immigrant as the do Mexican Nationals we would be better off as a nation. Or better yet adopt Mexico Immigration laws.

When Mexico has a bunch of foreing nationals that need deporting, such as Chinese, when a plane arrives from China, those get loaded on the plane first, then the "paying" customers get placed on stand by.

A few years ago, the United States paid Mexico to detain everyone in transit to the U.S., and let Mexico deport them. For whatever reason that was discontinued.

At the current rate, The U.S.A. will only last about three or four generations. Originally Posted by greenhorn1960

Evolutionary Biologist posit that the ability to rationalize and reason is a fairly recent progression in the timeline of the development of the Homo sapien species:
"Humans have a highly developed brain, capable of abstract reasoning, language, introspection, and problem solving. This mental capability, combined with an erect body carriage that frees the hands for manipulating objects, has allowed humans to make far greater use of tools than any other living species on Earth. Other higher-level thought processes of humans, such as self-awareness, rationality, and sapience,[7][8][9] are considered to be defining features of what constitutes a "person". - Wiki
However, that progression, the ability to reason and rationalize, has not taken place at an equal pace for all of those amongst us and that is truly saddening because the rest of society has to compensate for these individuals. This dynamic is obviously taking place in reference to your commentary and probably transcends most of your interaction with those around you and that is truly unfortunate and I wish you the best.

At it's inception, babies born in USA of immigrants are natural citizens and I have had no problem with that. However.....with SO MANY ILLEGALS coming in and creating these so-called "anchor babies", I am now AGAINST it. Originally Posted by whitetail32

The Pew Hispanic center, which is recognized as a leader in statistical research in this area, does offer evidence that the undocumented are having a significant number of children in the US. Here is an article from TIME magazine that you might be interested in:

http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010...or-baby-myths/

Greenhorn, with all due respect...that was a tad painful to read.

Done legally? What the fuck does the USA know about legal or moral issues? We don’t! Manipulate all u can and when done get them the hell out, got to face our history and cant deny that one buddy. Indians, lets use them to live and then give them blankets infested with small pox and beak up their land and tell them where they can live. Africans, lets build our future w/cheap labor and destroy soil for lots of cash, o wait we created a super human, give them no rights and lets see how they manage(no one thought how sports would be effected). Asians, we need a railroad to connect our country so bring them over and let them set it up then we will exclude them from everything. Mexicans, 1850 lets make them choose what side they want to live on and 85yrs later tell them they have no papers and send them all back to create jobs and free land, sounds familiar. Its all bull shit! The US has always manipulated the laws to benefit our situation. Always fuckn over the little guy, I know survival of the fittest but when ur always changing the rules how can anyone establish themselves, they cant. Its all good cuz pockets will get fat and life goes on.

Done legally? What the fuck does the USA know about legal or moral issues? We don’t! Manipulate all u can and when done get them the hell out, got to face our history and cant deny that one buddy. Indians, lets use them to live and then give them blankets infested with small pox and beak up their land and tell them where they can live. Africans, lets build our future w/cheap labor and destroy soil for lots of cash, o wait we created a super human, give them no rights and lets see how they manage(no one thought how sports would be effected). Asians, we need a railroad to connect our country so bring them over and let them set it up then we will exclude them from everything. Mexicans, 1850 lets make them choose what side they want to live on and 85yrs later tell them they have no papers and send them all back to create jobs and free land, sounds familiar. Its all bull shit! The US has always manipulated the laws to benefit our situation. Always fuckn over the little guy, I know survival of the fittest but when ur always changing the rules how can anyone establish themselves, they cant. Its all good cuz pockets will get fat and life goes on. Originally Posted by imurjob

As hard as it is to hear that about our country, it is the truth. We have got to stay involved in the political process and be aware of what's happening and make the most informed decisions when we vote. It is a long and difficult road and it will take many years to right the ship, but I really believe that we have started to do that. Ignorance, hate, racism and greed are all easily motivated and mobilized by our corporate overlords. It will be a never ending battle where vigilance by the electorate will be key.

interesting country of immigrants dont like immigrants

Let's get back on topic: the 14th Amendment. It should NOT be repealed, amended or modified. I love the USA but what is it with us that anytime the economy is in the toilet we blame others? Undocumented immigrants are the new scapegoats. As stated earlier anyone in the US is subject to its laws, its protections and its consequences. It would be inane to repeal the amendment because it is working exactly as it was meant to. I think most people are unfamiliar with immigration law. There's no such thing as anchor babies. A US citizen has to be 21 in order to petition for a parent. What anchor takes 21 years to take hold? In any event. There can't be a rational immigration reform until the vitriol, partinsanship, and attack politics dies down. PS sorry about the spelling I'm typing on a frigin iPhone.

Let's get back on topic: the 14th Amendment. It should NOT be repealed, amended or modified. I love the USA but what is it with us that anytime the economy is in the toilet we blame others? Undocumented immigrants are the new scapegoats. As stated earlier anyone in the US is subject to its laws, its protections and its consequences. It would be inane to repeal the amendment because it is working exactly as it was meant to. I think most people are unfamiliar with immigration law. There's no such thing as anchor babies. A US citizen has to be 21 in order to petition for a parent. What anchor takes 21 years to take hold? In any event. There can't be a rational immigration reform until the vitriol, partinsanship, and attack politics dies down. PS sorry about the spelling I'm typing on a frigin iPhone. Originally Posted by eddiecruz

Agreed.

I'm just going to hold my tongue for another 30 years or so. According to the US Census Bureau that's just about the time the population demographic will have shifted significantly enough that this won't be a real issue any longer.

As a side note the requirements to become a citizen a 100 years ago were not nearly as complicated as they are today. Basically if you could catch a boat ride over and make it to Ellis Island you were given a pat on the back and let in. America is made stronger by immigrants and it always has been. The same anti-immigrant arguments that groups are making today are the exact same arguments that were being used against Irish and Italian immigrants 100 years ago... full circle stupidity runs in our national DNA I guess, lol.

Actually California has documented that the illegal anchor babies cost it more than 400 million dollars last year. It seems some perverted do gooders think that the parents can collect welfare and social security while they stay here with their children. Why, I don't know.

A week after birth, they should all be deported, not supported.

We fail as a country to enforce our own laws. Arizona is trying, but they are catching hell for it. Then there is the border fence, that is being delayed because the EPA said it might interfere with some animal's habitat. Then you have US citizens giving people in Mexico maps on how to evade capture. ANd don't forget those 2 border patrol agents who are in jail for shooting a drug dealer who snuck into our country.

raedy4funn45 please check your facts before repeating them on the net. I looked up your "fact" and surprise it comes from many,many right wing conservative websites, columns, and articles. Do some more checking.

Undocumented workers CANNOT collect welfare or social security. They may be eligible for WIC or emergency medicare for the birth but that's it. Why is it that only California is having this problem? Why not us here in Texas? It seems to me conservatives right wingers have used California's money woes and have tried to blame it on undocumented people.

We don't fail to enforce our own laws. We enforce them just fine. Hundreds of thousands of people are deported each year from the United States, as well as being caught by Border Patrol or Customs, or ICE. You mistakenly believe that many people sneak into the US via the border. That's not the case. The majority of people here undocumented came with a visa and overstayed. Let's leave Arizona alone for the time being. The border wall was a dumb idea to begin with. And finally the two border patrol agents. Let's hear it straight form the horse's mouth:

U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton issued a statement in response to allegations the agents were prosecuted for "just doing their job," saying "nothing could be further from the truth."

"These agents shot someone who they knew to be unarmed and running away," Sutton said. "They destroyed evidence, covered up a crime scene and then filed false reports about what happened. It is shocking that there are people who believe it is OK for agents to shoot an unarmed suspect who is running away."

Sutton said that during the two-and-a-half-week trial, evidence showed that around 1 p.m. on Feb. 17, 2005, Davila initially ran from the agents, but tried to surrender with his empty hands raised after Compean pointed a shotgun at him. When Compean tried to push Davila to the ground with his gun, the agent tripped and fell. Davila then ran toward the Rio Grande River and Mexico. Compean chased Davila, firing at him with his pistol 14 times, pausing once to reload, Sutton said. Ramos shot once and struck Davila in the buttocks.

Neither agent made any further effort to apprehend him, Sutton said, and they threw away the fired shell casings and filed a false report omitting the confrontation.
"If Compean and Ramos truly believed Aldrete [Davila] was a threat, why did they abandon him after shooting him?" Sutton asked. "And if they truly believed the shooting was justified, why did they not report it, leave the scene undisturbed, and let the investigation absolve them? The answer to these questions are simple. The agents knew that Aldrete did not pose a threat as he fled, they knew the shooting was unjustified and unlawful, and they knew an investigation would incriminate them. So they chose to cover up their crimes."

Snow and Sutton have both pointed out that at the time Davila was originally pulled over, the agents didn't know he was an illegal alien, nor did they know he had over 700 pounds of marijuana in his truck. The agents also had arms training the day before the incident, so they knew what was required of them in the case of a shooting, they said.

"The facts of this case are such that I would invite everybody to take a full look at the documented record," Snow said. "This is not the case of the United States saying, 'We are not going to support people who go after drug dealers.' Of course, we are. We think it's incumbent to go after drug dealers, and we also think that it's vitally important to make sure that we provide border security so our people are secure.
"We also believe that the people who are working to secure that border themselves obey the law."

Actually California has documented that the illegal anchor babies cost it more than 400 million dollars last year. It seems some perverted do gooders think that the parents can collect welfare and social security while they stay here with their children. Why, I don't know.

A week after birth, they should all be deported, not supported.

We fail as a country to enforce our own laws. Arizona is trying, but they are catching hell for it. Then there is the border fence, that is being delayed because the EPA said it might interfere with some animal's habitat. Then you have US citizens giving people in Mexico maps on how to evade capture. ANd don't forget those 2 border patrol agents who are in jail for shooting a drug dealer who snuck into our country. Originally Posted by raedy4funn45

This is the type of misinformation and outright lies that are being fed by Fox, and Sociopaths like Limbaugh and Beck to those whom want to absolve themselves of the difficult decisions, like immigration, that we must face as a country. Ignorance, racism, and hatred are easily motivated and does not require reason and rationalization and therefore plays into the hands of the Republican party that loves their constituents good and dumb.

The "illegal" immigrants who poured into Ellis Island from Europe weren't left out in the harbor filling out paperwork for years and years before setting foot on shore. It's the non-European (i.e., non-white) immigrants that have everybody's panties in a wad.

And people who argue for "strict constructionism" or "originalism" when viewing the Constitution are stuck with the 14th Amendment, as written, rather than as a couple of senators explained it. So people who don't allow any context for the First Amendment (currently interpreted to allow unlimited and unidentifiable corporate/union spending on political campaigns) and the Second Amendment (militia? what militia?) can't very well complain about the 14th.

The "illegal" immigrants who poured into Ellis Island from Europe weren't left out in the harbor filling out paperwork for years and years before setting foot on shore. It's the non-European (i.e., non-white) immigrants that have everybody's panties in a wad.

And people who argue for "strict constructionism" or "originalism" when viewing the Constitution are stuck with the 14th Amendment, as written, rather than as a couple of senators explained it. So people who don't allow any context for the First Amendment (currently interpreted to allow unlimited and unidentifiable corporate/union spending on political campaigns) and the Second Amendment (militia? what militia?) can't very well complain about the 14th. Originally Posted by Bebe Rebozo

OFT sorry, but I have to say the Citizens United case has to rank as the single most devastating ruling from a bunch of conservative activist judges ever in the history of SCOTUS rulings. I just wonder how many people actually realize the implications or know what it means to our democracy? Considering the recent revelations about Justices Scalia and Thomas and that Scalia, Thomas and Alito failed to show up at SOTU last night just magnifies my concern over the highly partisan antics of these judges and what damages to our country they will be responsible for in the future.

We're off-topic again (as liberals are wont to do) so back on topic: it's funny how people are so quick to choose which laws they want to follow and what laws they don't. They want a generous interpretation of the 1st and 2nd amendment but a strict interpretation of the 14th. You can't pick and choose. That's why it infuriates me to read "what part of illegal do you not understand." Especially here on this site. That phrase is so brazenly idiotic I don't know why others haven't jumped on this already.