Open carry from Jan 1st 2016... Who's ready ?

Open carry = toothpick penis. You gun tards have fun.

Why give up the element of surprise Originally Posted by tbone2u

I am probably giving the bad guys too much intelligence, but I suspect open carry soils put you at the top of the list for being taken out during a holdup.

But I do like the fact that inadvertent brandishing would be anice issue any more.

I don't even really see the attraction. When someone looks at me, I don't want them to say,"That guy's got a gun." I want them to say, "I wonder if that guy's got a gun?"

Boardman, by using a drop leg holster for open carry you will be able to easily get in and out of your car. A drop leg holster is mounted to your belt which is the requirement in the law. It will not get in the way of your seatbelt.

Oh Tebow...now we have to put up with drop-leg tacticool douchebags toting around Houston???

I'm going to throw up...

Yes, I think the tacticool people will be out there.

Yes, I think the tacticool people will be out there. Originally Posted by nu2

Without question. It'll be the same idiots that dress up in full camo and chest rigs, just to go to the shooting range.

The next few months will be interesting.

You're an idiot. It is not against the law to verify your capacity to legally carry a pistol in plain view. Let me know how that works out for you. Everyone else here will be watching the news of you being shot by a police officer because you don't actually know the law. Originally Posted by Powerdrive

No I think you need to check your ego and learn something before acting like a child and engaging in an unprovoked name calling contest, something like we see in an elementary school playground.



Let me make this simple, as it applies to a lot more than just open carry.


There are three general levels of LEO interaction with citizens: a consensual interaction, a Terry stop and an arrest.

An officer may ask a person Open Carrying to ID/show license in a consensual scenario. The key word being “consensual.” The officer may ask to see a CHL (or the new version), but the citizen does not have to agree to show the permit. Them refusing is not a crime and cannot be used as probable cause.

If the officer has other probable cause, they can demand you ID. Refusal is not a good idea there.

The bills author, Senator Estes, has asserted the officer cannot detain/arrest you for failing to produce your license. You are under 4th Amendment protections granted by the US Constitution’s protection against unreasonable searches and seizures.

You are protected in the same way as in that LEO can't stop you for no other reason than to just to check your drivers license. Check out Delaware v. Prouse, 440 U.S. 648 ruling by the U.S.Supreme Court.

You might also check out the 6th Circuit ruling in Northrup v. Toledo Police Department and how they ruled in a situation where officers responded to a 'man with a gun' call and interacted with him. (I do know we are in the 5th Circuits area, but justices tend to look at rulings in other comparable courts when deciding their own cases.)

Another thing to look at is the 4th Circuits ruling on the case of Nathaniel Black, a felon found to be in possession of a concealed firearm during an open carry stop of his group by LEO. He was protected by the 4th from search, and beat the case.

One thing the legislators that enacted this law did for us was to make their intent clear, regarding open carrying being probably cause. They put their notes into the record for this purpose in case it needed to be brought up in court.

You can read some of those notes here.

http://www.journals.senate.state.tx....F.PDF#page=241

and here......................

http://www.journals.house.state.tx.u...L.PDF#page=317


I am not saying that this is the best course of action, but you do need to know your rights and what LEO can and cannot do. As responsible adults you can make your own, hopefully educated, decisions about how your personal LE interactions unfold.

They are trying to lie and bullshit their way into making the public (aka sheep) believe they can do something they are not legally authorized to do.


Do you understand now, or do you want to engage in more juvenile behavior without providing any substantial grounds for your debate point????





Also consider that open carry is allowed in some form or another in 44 states. Texas is late to the party on this issue. No wild, wild west issues with those other places or the number of states that have 'constitutional carry. Constitutional carry is where there is no need by the citizen to be authorized by the state to carry a weapon either concealed or open. Those states are another reason Texas is behind the ball on gun laws, we are not near the best state in the nation for this.

Final thought, a right that has to have government permission to exercise is no longer a right, it has become a privilege that can be denied and taken away.

(Disclaimer I do not offer this as legal advice, just observations and 'food for thought' to help in a civil discussion of a important topic in our community.)





Now off to watch some more bowl games, it is a great time of the year to be a football fan.

Without question. It'll be the same idiots that dress up in full camo and chest rigs, just to go to the shooting range. Originally Posted by john353

I did that when I was in the military all the time. Back then, going to the range with my M4 on my own time was a training exercise. When I'm deployed, I don't shoot my M4 from a bench in shorts, I shoot it with full body armor and helmet.

No need for me to do that now though.

Plain vanilla M4 or a variant?

So who has survived 2016 so far?

I prefer conceal to open carry, because I prefer that people remain calm.
I also prefer the element of surprise.
Imagine how fast the movie Pulp Fiction would have lasted if everyone was carrying in that restaurant.

TJ's thoughts on open carry

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
-- Thomas Jefferson (Quoting Cesare Beccaria)

There are three general levels of LEO interaction with citizens: a consensual interaction, a Terry stop and an arrest.

The bills author, Senator Estes, has asserted the officer cannot detain/arrest you for failing to produce your license. You are under 4th Amendment protections granted by the US Constitution’s protection against unreasonable searches and seizures.

...

One thing the legislators that enacted this law did for us was to make their intent clear, regarding open carrying being probably cause. They put their notes into the record for this purpose in case it needed to be brought up in court.

You can read some of those notes here.

http://www.journals.senate.state.tx....F.PDF#page=241

and here......................

http://www.journals.house.state.tx.u...L.PDF#page=317 Originally Posted by O'Mike

Out of academic curiosity I will read the "notes" of various lawmakers for the same reason I stood with a couple of DA's (not assistants .. "the" DA's.. one rural and one urban) in the final "discussion" in the State Senate when the original concealed carry law was passed. It was "humorous" to say the least.

Our consensus was that state law makers don't make Constitutional Law and their "opinions" on what is or is not pc is probably not worth the air they breathed in before they said it.

IMO is not only will the officer be authorized to request your license, which you are supposed to have in your possession (just like when you drive an automobile) when wearing a handgun, but during his "contact" with the pistol toting "want-a-be" gunfighter, he will be justified/authorized in requesting that he maintain possession of the weapon until the "contact" is complete ... given the ability to articulate facts that made the officer feel "threatened" with the citizen possessing the handgun during the "contact" ... (I would say "attitude" is an element of that justification ... as demonstrated by tone of voice and physical demeanor).....

.. that is within the scope of Terry vs. Ohio ... and New York vs. Sibron that was the case in the official reporter containing Terry right "beside" Terry, which explains Terry and the scope the U.S. Supreme Court intended. (As an aside over the years Terry has been misinterpreted and most particularly by the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals and most of the Courts of Appeals in Texas.......the Texas courts have actually extended the authority of the specific wording of Terry.)

If anyone one desires legal advice before openly carrying, don't get it from this board ... get it from an attorney who has had indepth experience in the legal aspects of firearms training, carrying, licensing, and LE authority .... I have said that many times on this board on many different topics.

If you just want to be a "test" case then "assume" that you don't have to give the officer shit, ok?

(That's how this little *(*^)*^ .. get shot by police! ..... and when the officer wants your weapon you let the officer un-ass it from your holster ... don't you reach for it to hand it to him or her.)

BTW: the new carry license in Texas will require a training supplement for weapons retention as set by the DPS in the regs ... those with current licenses will be "grandfathered" in and will not have to take it ... although I suspect the DPS will have the block of instruction added to the "requalification" ... I recommend that anyone intending to openly carry go find the training and get it .... get it from a seasoned LE firearms instructor who has street experience and knows LE instructional guidelines for the block of instruction that has been taught in police academies through the state ... most importantly the DPS academy... weapons retention is about 10 hours with "classroom" and "practicals."

My vote would be with WU on his assessment on this one .. as a general rule, knowing that pc cases are decided on the facts of each specific case as proven in the courts and/or to a jury.

McDonalds fast food restaurant is ready. They have their 30.07 (no open carry) signs up.