What makes it wrong to kill, steal, etc?...other than a sense of morality based upon some spiritual belief? Without such basis, then if I believe I need what you have, then I take it. Why wouldn't I? The only thing stopping me would be a fear of law, or a fear that you might whup my ass. But if I'm confident I can whup your ass, then nothing other than a sense of morality keeps me from doing so. Civilization evolved to be somewhat civilized out of a common need for purpose. That common need for purpose manifested itself as serving a higher being. You can say that is ignorance, and you can be right, but you can be wrong too.
Society's view of morality changes with popularity. There was a day when slavery was not immoral...at least as viewed by society. My belief is that things are either moral or immoral. And the whims of society, or the passing of time, does not change that.
The laws we pass, and try to adhear to, are no more than an attempt by man, to live together, without violating most people's mores. But don't mistake laws for morality. They are not even close to the same thing. And if some form of religion is a basic part of most of society (which it most definately is) it is fools play to try and exclude those fundemental tenants from the discussion.
Originally Posted by Rudyard K
Edit: You miss my point. Morals are inherent, hard wired somewhat in a normal rational person's brain. It wasn't any religion that created that, and you don't need religion to have morals. If it is some religious more that is keeping you from hurting someone, because your afraid someone in the sky is going to punish you later on after death, then there is indeed something wrong.
"Questions of morality are questions about happiness and suffering, This is why you and I do not have moral obligations toward rocks. To the degree that our actions can affect the experience of other creatures positively or negatively, questions of morality apply. The idea that the bible is a perfect guide to morality is simply astounding, given it's contents of the book. "
"Questions about values--about meaning, morality, and life's larger purpose--are really questions about the well being of conscious creatures. Values, therefore, translate into facts that can be scientifically understood: regarding positive and negative social emotions, retributive impulses, the effects of specific laws and social institutions on human relationships, the neurophysiology of happiness and suffering, etc. "
What stops you from hurting others is that you realize the basic concepts of right and wrong and the logic behind it. Now if you are rationalizing that laws based on some religious mores are laws worth keeping, whatever that might be, I disagree. Like I said "just because someone likes it doesn't make it right". A murderer might decide in his/her un rational thinking that it's ok to make laws to let them kill people. Absurd right? In addition there are laws based on religious mores that are not based on actual facts or logic. Include in the many case and point "prostitution". As controversial as it may be, most of the reasoning behind keeping it prohibited is that most believe it is immoral. Discriminatory laws are pretty much the same. It's more about irrational thinking about another race, gender, not based on actual facts.
And yes, you are right as people become more educated on the real facts of issues, as time goes by they change the laws.