True or False? You Decide. White House Insider: Obama Hesitated – Panetta Issued Order to Kill Osama Bin Laden

They do call him the Dali Lama for a reason.

That was fucking funny.

As of a few weeks ago Toolman (and Donald Trump) were among the few left willing to continue the pursuit of the "Birther" dream Toolman has chased for 2 1/2 + years. And now we find out today that the Secretary of Defense has shot down the latest conspiracy theory advanced by Toolman! http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/55022.html

Geez, Toolman has had a bad couple of weeks!

Toolman can run but he can't hide! Unless he decides to hide on the next flight out of Roswell to the land of his origin! Up, up and away!

You have to give credit where credit is due. There may not be much substance to Toolman's far reaching conspiracy theories. But they are entertaining! Move over Mel Gibson, there is a new Sheriff in town!

His Holiness strikes again.

And now we find out today that the Secretary of Defense has shot down the latest conspiracy theory advanced by Toolman! http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/55022.html Originally Posted by bigtex

I didn't read that in the article. Gates said Obama made a gutsy call. Panetta is up for confirmation. Hillary is ..... well, we shall see.

This story may be all hogwash, but BT you are a little premature on calling it. The planning of the operation in the story is consistent with SOP, and the discussion of options is also.

I am still giving him, the President, atta-boys for giving the green light, but I am not dispelling the "rumor" until sufficient time has passed to air out the details of the political decisions to go forward. That may take until some folks are in the heat of the campaign and out of the administration.

As for Gates, I would expect nothing less than his support for his boss.....either one.

I didn't read that in the article. Gates said Obama made a gutsy call. Panetta is up for confirmation. Hillary is ..... well, we shall see.

This story may be all hogwash, but BT you are a little premature on calling it. The planning of the operation in the story is consistent with SOP, and the discussion of options is also. Originally Posted by LexusLover

LL, given the fact that Secretary Gates claimed "this is one of the most courageous calls – decisions — that I think I’ve ever seen a president make” goes a long way toward dispelling Toolman's latest "magical mystery tour." It seems highly unlikely that a high ranking insider (who happpened to be in the room) would be giving kudos to the Prez, if it took a coup to actually kill OBL. If that were the case, it seems Gates would have said nothing. Instead he gave the Prez the highest level of praise possible. Then again, perhaps Toolman was in the room selling the Prez a Craftsman socket wrench set while the meeting was going on.

In any event, as of yet Toolman has not revealed his source. In and of itself, that reveals yet another story! As a self-proclaimed, life-long Democrat you apparently remain unconvinced. Will you at least acknowledge that the ridiculous "birther" myth has been put behind us? Or would you prefer to remain a passenger on that slow moving train to nowhere, as well?

If that were the case, it seems Gates would have said nothing. Instead he gave the Prez the highest level of praise possible. Originally Posted by bigtex

I can go back and look, but if I recall, Gates had planned to leave at the end of this year... not July. Even President's whose cabinet members resign under questionable circumstances give praise to the departing personnel. Gates has nothing to loose by giving the praise, and he has nothing to win by revealing any "inside" information. I would expect him to hold the line on the decision making. So, having said that I pay attention to what he says, but I am unwilling to dismiss alll of the "rumor" on his word. I respect the man and will continue to do so.

As I previously mentioned, did you have questions about the "attack" in the Gulf of Tonkin ... back then ... BEFORE the "resolution"?

Were you aware that when Kennedy was sworn HE DID NOT know of "our" presence in S.E. Asia ..... BEFORE he was sworn?

Now, reread what Gates said .... not just the headline.

"“I think the hardest thing for me to deal with … is leading a department that is organized to plan for war but not to fight a war. And so everything that I’ve wanted to do to try and help the men and women in the field I’ve had to do outside the normal Pentagon bureaucracy. And I’ve had to be directly involved on a week-to-week basis to make sure that it got done. That’s been very frustrating.”

I do not believe in coincidences ... the "shake up" and announcement of the changes just before the operation ... and you and I know that this WAS in the planning stages for months.....even as reported now .... with the information being gathered for years.

It may be a fictitious rumor .... but I am willing to let it get aired....not the operational details, but the decision making among the named parties....and not jump at the first headline to support what I want to believe. Like I said .... I give him the "atta-boy" ... even if he was pushed to give the green light.

LL, for some reason you forgot to reveal your position on the "birther" story!

The fact remains that Toolman seems to relish in chasing the wild, outlandish stories circulating on the internet about the Prez. Why would the OBL 'coup' story be any different than the "birther" story?

Toolman did not even take the time to reveal his "coup" story source. Duh! Earth to LL! Consider your source! When there is no reliable source offered, you probably should take that into consideration, as well!

LL, for some reason you forgot to reveal your position on the "birther" story! Originally Posted by bigtex

I had no "position" on the .... errr .... " 'birther' story" .. I consistently had a position on the release of Mr. Obama's ORIGINAL birth certificate, as opposed to an agency produced document containing information purportedly from the "ORIGINAL" ... which had disappeared for several years!

My position was, and is, he should release it, get it over, and move on.

He chose another route. That's his choice, but it is hardly "transparent"!

My reasoning: If the "Feds" question my birth place, I will have to satisfy the "Feds" with the documentation the "Feds" request. If they want a certified copy of the ORIGINAL, then I go to the Courthouse in the county where I was born and have the Clerk dig up the ORIGNAL and certify a copy of it. And return it to the "Fed" that asked for it.

If Mr. President believes in equal treatment, then set an example.

Now back to the topic of the thread.

Transparency.

LL, for some reason you forgot to reveal your position on the "birther" story! Originally Posted by bigtex

And for some reason you "forget to reveal your position" on:
1. Gulf of Tonkin;
2. JFK not having been informed in pre-swearing briefings about "our war"!

Why is that? The absence of credible information is similarly relevant.

My reasoning: If the "Feds" question my birth place, I will have to satisfy the "Feds" with the documentation the "Feds" request. If they want a certified copy of the ORIGINAL, then I go to the Courthouse in the county where I was born and have the Clerk dig up the ORIGNAL and certify a copy of it. And return it to the "Fed" that asked for it. . Originally Posted by LexusLover

Perhaps the reason the Prez failed to release a copy to the "Feds" was because the "Feds" never questioned his birth place. Just a thought!

Perhaps the reason the Prez failed to release a copy to the "Feds" was because the "Feds" never questioned his birth place. Just a thought! Originally Posted by bigtex

Hillary was the one who started all this BS in the first place and all BO had to do this whole time was make a phone call and it would have been all cleared up. BO liked the rational that if you had any doubts about his birth then you were some how a racist and that's why he hung onto it for this long. Now he has finally released a BC and it seems to be in question.

I think he wants the Birther issue to stay alive.

Perhaps the reason the Prez failed to release a copy to the "Feds" was because the "Feds" never questioned his birth place. Just a thought! Originally Posted by bigtex

Which is why I don't release a copy of my original birth certificate to myself.

Just a thought!

Now. Who really did make the "kill" decision?

1. A guy that can't find his own original birth certificate for two years, or ......
2. a woman who can't find shoe boxes of cancelled checks in her closet in the living quarters of the White House, or ...
3. Joe Biden who can't find his ass with both hands ... any where ...

4. or ....Panetta, Patraeus, and/or Gates?

Just asking. Since we must speculate.

Which is why I don't release a copy of my original birth certificate to myself.

Just a thought!

Now. Who really did make the "kill" decision?
Originally Posted by LexusLover

Just a thought....

Isn't it interesting that it was OK to shoot and kill an unarmed man but...God forbid we put a little water up his nose?

Isn't it interesting that it was OK to shoot and kill an unarmed man but...God forbid we put a little water up his nose? Originally Posted by TheDaliLama

I think we did both. Correct? Praise the Lord.

Note to self: I thought OBL had both arms when he died.

I think we did both. Correct? Praise the Lord. Originally Posted by LexusLover

Mission accomplished.