The leading cause of death in the United States last week was cardiac arrest

Strange how you didn't bring up how Top Experts estimated an additional 2 million Americans would be dead because of COVID back in February. Originally Posted by gnadfly

Could you please explain gnadfly. You appeared to believe that Covid is a hoax, but now are pointing to 2 million deaths. That makes any of the so called flips that Fauci made look pretty small in comparison

Quit blaming Trump ... the so-called "election" was last month. Originally Posted by LexusLover

This is rich. I haven't blamed Trump any more than I've blamed Cuomo, the FDA, the CDC, thousands of governors and mayors and public health officials, and people who don't use common sense to protect themselves and people around them. But hypothetically say that wasn't true. Why wouldn't I still be blaming Trump? He's still president isn't he.

The estimates of 2 million deaths due to COVID-19 was based on the assumption that NOTHING was done -- no shut downs or school closings, no requiring of mask wearing/social distancing/no hand washing. The majority of the people in this country have accepted the limitations put on their lives and followed recommendations.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/u...-estimate.html

I have said before that I believe Trump's Operation Warp Speed was a definite positive, although Pfizer did not participate and was the first out the door with a vaccine. What I think Trump should have done differently was push the wearing of masks and social distancing instead of trying to be macho-man and holding rallies and functions where people seemingly contracted the COVID-19 virus. I do think Governors such as Abbott in Texas are acting appropriately and shutting down or limiting certain businesses such as bars and restaurants when deemed appropriate. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Very good post SpeedRacer, and your NYT article on 3/18/2020 has stood the test of time. In fact, if you assume 80% infection rate to get to herd immunity and the CDC's current best guess of 0.65% infection fatality rate, you get right at the top end of their 200,000 to 1.7 million death estimate.

Tiny - we disagree - the true number of deaths attributable to wuhan virus cannot be determined, and the case mortality rates are totally off base due to confounding variables. Any numbers published are unreliable . the case mortality rates are compromised by unknown fale pos and neg rates of the antigen tests, and unknown status of the number of asymptomatic and minimally symptomatic patients never tested. That denominator drops the rates - as I believe it is much larger than accepted by LSM propaganda (ie NYT). .

IMHO.

fact - i do accept that older folks and those with underlying disease processes which predispose to poor outcomes are more vulnerable to poor wuhan virus outcomes.



vaccination - thalidomide is just a warning - let's don't go too fast - let's be sure of safety and efficacy - and I am a vaccine proponent - having seen personally the effects of smallpox and polio vaccination - not to mention the DPT and other vaccinations. I agree the complications (severe ones) will be likely rare. let's hope there are no undiscovered long- term complications due to the RNA technology that occur late after vaccination. I think this is unlikely.

the efficacy ans safety reviews are underway in the FDA - and States are planning vaccine rollouts - so hopefully we can see the beginning of movement to herd immunity and light at the end of the tunnel.



Now - let's look at China - and how they used their Wuhan virus to distract the democracies - while they have been busy at work extending their CCP grasp of many areas - sudan just signed on to let China establish military bases in a 25 year treaty - and now China effectively will control that part of Africa.



the good part - i hope Xi pours Billions of $ into their African shit holes - and wind up with not squat for their money. the Africans will be more than happy to corruptly relieve the CCP of its' investments - LOL!


howling indoctrinated DPST's and Anti-Vaxxers may now post their usual nonsense!!
thanks you - yr/mm/mm/hh/obo/sf/ the marxists posters - multiple handles.



hey - you DPST's are all indoctrinated and spouting the same marxist, racist, propaganda dictated by your DNC. and led by a biden puppet who owes everything to CCP money and corruption!!!

Welcome back DOTY.

Welcome back DOTY. Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Talking to yourself?

Thank U - yr/mm/hh/mm/other multiple DPST racist, marxist handles.
usual waste of bandwidth.

Tiny - we disagree - the true number of deaths attributable to wuhan virus cannot be determined, and the case mortality rates are totally off base due to confounding variables. Any numbers published are unreliable . the case mortality rates are compromised by unknown fale pos and neg rates of the antigen tests, and unknown status of the number of asymptomatic and minimally symptomatic patients never tested. That denominator drops the rates - as I believe it is much larger than accepted by LSM propaganda (ie NYT). .

IMHO.

fact - i do accept that older folks and those with underlying disease processes which predispose to poor outcomes are more vulnerable to poor wuhan virus outcomes.



vaccination - thalidomide is just a warning - let's don't go too fast - let's be sure of safety and efficacy - and I am a vaccine proponent - having seen personally the effects of smallpox and polio vaccination - not to mention the DPT and other vaccinations. I agree the complications (severe ones) will be likely rare. let's hope there are no undiscovered long- term complications due to the RNA technology that occur late after vaccination. I think this is unlikely. Originally Posted by oeb11

Oeb, The CDC excess deaths web page is hard to navigate, but they do periodically look at the total number of deaths in 2020 and compare to previous years. The range of excess deaths they came up with the last time I looked was around or a bit higher than the semi-official Covid deaths you see in the press.

In other words, if you just look at excess deaths compared to past years, you sidestep the unreliable, confounding variables and the false positives that you mentioned.

Here are links to the CDC page, also something that gnadfly found that's easier on the eyes,

Take a look at the excess deaths page on the CDC web site:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ess_deaths.htm

If you go about halfway down the page you'll see a graph, "weekly number of deaths (from all causes)" going back to January, 2017. Ignore the orange line and the red crosses and concentrate on the blue bars, which are the number of weekly deaths. If you look at this on a laptop (it may be hard to see on a handphone) you'll see there have been a lot more deaths in the USA, from all causes, since March 15, 2020, than there were in previous years. What's causing this? It damn well better be Covid because if it's not, if the cause is something we don't know about, we're in a heap of trouble. Originally Posted by Tiny

Here's an interesting graph a linked article uses.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/e...e&region=WorldI don't know if they used CDC data or not. Notice the graph for sake of drama starts at 50K. The NYC area "Cumocaust" could alone be responsible for that spike in those months. I think he or she has a good point, expecially as it relates to certain percentages in certain age groups. Originally Posted by gnadfly

As to rushing the vaccines, which fortunately Trump is doing, if you hold them up you're going to have tens of thousands more deaths than if you don't. Or hundreds of thousands if you wait for "undiscovered long- term complications due to the RNA technology that occur late after vaccination" to manifest themselves.

With these rushed vaccinations we could be creating mutations in the human body. Which have the potential of long term suffering and illness.
No thank you! Ya'll get in line and do as you're told like good sheeple.

In other words, if you just look at excess deaths compared to past years, you sidestep the unreliable, confounding variables and the false positives that you mentioned. Originally Posted by Tiny

A comparative increase in total deaths is not "proof" of alleged Covid-19 deaths in 2020. Let me give you an example.

30 or so years ago a newspaper JOURNALIST (they actually were 30 years ago!) decided to got "undercover" to discover the "cause" of increased shooting deaths in Washington D.C. vs. St. Louis, Missouri. St. Louis had more shootings, but fewer firearm deaths. After some careful examination and extensive experience it turned out that St. Louis had a shorter EMS response time to the shooting scenes and St. Louis officers cleared the scenes faster for EMS to get in and tend to those shot. The shorter time periods saved more lives .... = fewer deaths.

There's a uptick in the Covid "cases" .... more testing.

And "cases" doesn't mean a trip to the hospital. An increase in hospitalizations can mean more beds available and an increase in revenues for the hospitals by admitting patients instead of sending them packing with prescriptions. Detaining them in isolation in the hospital can be a protocol to attempt to reduce spread as well. Hasn't the death rate from complications fallen?

When the "election" is "over" ... things will start looking better!

This is rich. I haven't blamed Trump any more than I've blamed Cuomo, the FDA, the CDC, thousands of governors and mayors and public health officials, and people who don't use common sense to protect themselves and people around them.

So you do blame Trump! Got it! Exactly what did you want Trump to do? If you can provide specifics. Otherwise save your bloviating for someone else.

As I've mentioned in here before ....

... I never saw a "movie critic" who actually made a movie.

With these rushed vaccinations we could be creating mutations in the human body. Which have the potential of long term suffering and illness.
No thank you! Ya'll get in line and do as you're told like good sheeple. Originally Posted by winn dixie

I definitely will. With a 95% effectiveness rate I'll no longer fear for my life every time I walk into a strip bar. And I won't feel compelled to wear the diver's helmet any longer. Carrying around an oxygen tank everywhere I go is a royal pain in the ass.

A comparative increase in total deaths is not "proof" of alleged Covid-19 deaths in 2020. Let me give you an example.

30 or so years ago a newspaper JOURNALIST (they actually were 30 years ago!) decided to got "undercover" to discover the "cause" of increased shooting deaths in Washington D.C. vs. St. Louis, Missouri. St. Louis had more shootings, but fewer firearm deaths. After some careful examination and extensive experience it turned out that St. Louis had a shorter EMS response time to the shooting scenes and St. Louis officers cleared the scenes faster for EMS to get in and tend to those shot. The shorter time periods saved more lives .... = fewer deaths. Originally Posted by LexusLover

Agreed, the existence of excess deaths doesn't prove they're because of Covid. But if that's not the cause, what is? Like I said above, if these deaths are being caused by something else and we don't even know what, we're in a heap of trouble.

I wrote: "I haven't blamed Trump any more than I've blamed Cuomo, the FDA, the CDC, thousands of governors and mayors and public health officials, and people who don't use common sense to protect themselves and people around them."

You wrote:

So you do blame Trump! Got it! Exactly what did you want Trump to do? If you can provide specifics. Otherwise save your bloviating for someone else.

As I've mentioned in here before .... I never saw a "movie critic" who actually made a movie. Originally Posted by LexusLover

So I said there are millions of people who should share the blame and you reply with "So you blame Trump!"

If you want specifics, he could have done better in two ways,

Pumped more resources into testing and PPE, including masks. Back at the start of the epidemic, pumped resources into helping states and municipalities contract trace. We're too far gone now for that to work, unfortunately.

Set a good example for others by social distancing and wearing a mask. He could have gotten on his bully pulpit and persuaded people to behave responsibly. Instead he's a poster child for everything you can do wrong, to spread an epidemic. He shouldn't have downplayed the epidemic.

Trump's not the killer some people on the left paint him out to be though. You can't blame the lion's share of our failure to contain this on Trump. Like I said above, there's lots of blame to go around. Our economy has been doing better than most of the European countries too. You can attribute that in part to the great base we had coming into the epidemic, and part to less disruption from lockdowns.

Thank U - yr/mm/hh/mm/other multiple DPST racist, marxist handles.
usual waste of bandwidth. Originally Posted by oeb11

Who are YOU calling a racist and marxist?

Thanks for wasting the bandwidth to make yet another flippant and baseless accusation.

You need to go back to your own thread. Or post a cartoon, Deppity Dawg!

I definitely will. With a 95% effectiveness rate I'll no longer fear for my life every time I walk into a strip bar. And I won't feel compelled to wear the diver's helmet any longer. Carrying around an oxygen tank everywhere I go is a royal pain in the ass. Originally Posted by Tiny

Bravo!