Trafficking

.a hobbyist who decides to turn a girl out or "mentor" her is doing it for his own gain whether he realizes it or not. At some point the lady is going to feel indebted to him and feel that she needs to give him something for what he's done for her. Originally Posted by MsElena

Umm, right. OK. So your motives are pure...and the guys aren't? How do you know? I can use the same story. I've known girls that were going to do this, whether they were mentored or not. If they didn't have someone help them, they were going to walk into the lion's den and get swallowed. Isn't the reasoning the same? And to say you get nothing in return is also false. You get a girl you can do doubles with that increases your income.

Bottom line is this. Get off your high horse. You have consistently stated that when a guy helps a girl, he's taking advantage of her. Simple economics lesson honey, NO ONE does something for free. It's the "invisible hand" concept that is the basis of our free market economy. It's been proven that even when someone gives to charity, the are getting something for the effort, even if it was only a warm and fuzzy feeling. So your belief that you asked for, and got nothing, in return is false. And your stance that a guy is always taking advantage of a girl is, again, also false.

And don't even get me started about "just come out and say it" and not hint. You and a few others have been hinting at me for weeks about this topic, even though I haven't even been around. It's obvious you've got your opinions and I have mine. Not likely either of us are going to change. But don't make backhanded comments and then pretend you're innocent, 'cuz innocent you ain't.

I'm going to continue to bring this up because I guess it hasn't made an impact. Your version of "helping" included telling me there was no way I could charge as much as the agency was. Self serving much? Originally Posted by SillyGirl

OK. Let's be honest. You were shitfaced, so I'm surprised you even remember ANYTHING I said. And for the 20th, and LAST time, what I said, which is 100% true is this. You are not a 18 y.o. super model. As such, you were not going to be able to charge more than the market rate unless you were a tiger in bed. You said you were, and I said that EVERY girl says that, and few are. But, if you remember, which, again, I doubt you do, AFTER we were together, I told you that you were going to do just fine. Self serving? What did I ever get for helping you? I never touched your money. I never set a date. We talked. You got a chip on your shoulder and did your own thing. Good for you. But there was nothing I got from you that was anything other than a fucking headache.

I'm going to continue to bring this up because I guess it hasn't made an impact. Your version of "helping" included telling me there was no way I could charge as much as the agency was. Self serving much? Originally Posted by SillyGirl

If its a consensual agreement, there's nothing wrong with it. But, in most cases there's no agreement made and the guys are expecting a discount, freebie or as Allie put it, a kickback. Not once have I heard of a consensual agreement to this day.

I don't see it as hobbyist mentoring evil and provider mentoring good, I see it as stupid and smart. One wrong move by the hobbyist and the cops get you for pandering. Do you know where that fine line is?

I'll play devils advocate too. Do the hobbyists know everything about hobby? Do they know the best sites to advertise on? Would he be able to set up a decent price structure that is going to be to the advantage of the lady and not just the guys? Do they know the best times to her to work? Toys? Lingerie? Hotels? Supplies? Pics? Are they going to ask other ladies to work doubles with her? Will he be able to tell her the best way to handle a drunk client? A client who is pissed? A client who is disappointed? Does the guy know about the laws and city ordinances? And the list goes on and on and on.

As Allie stated about herself, I helped those ladies because I wanted to and asked nothing in return. Originally Posted by MsElena

I can also play devil's advocate. If a girl ONLY listens to other girls, she's probably not going to get good advice. You can be as "friendly" as you want, but you're still competition. And don't tell me for a minute that older providers are just going to open up and help a younger new girl. Because we know better. Most of you providers will flay that girl alive and roll them in salt and then try to make yourself look better.

/snerk

We're not gonna protest!

No, I'm not an 18yo super model.......I'm 32, badass, and awesome.

Also german/irish....shitfaced is relative.

To me this whole thing boils down to just a few sentences.

If you think you are going to get free sex from a provider for "mentoring" or offering advice or even just "helping her out" you are not correct.

In fact pursuing a mentor style relationship will, most of the time, just open yourself up to abuse from LE or her existing contacts.

If you think you have "more than a professional relationship" with a provider its because she is a good provider and tells you what you want to hear.

If you think you are friends with her, think of this acid test. Would she help you move? If not, then she is not your friend she is a friendly provider.

Every person has their own reasons for hobbying. Some of us are delusional. Some of us are lonely. Some of us can't get laid any other way. Some like a thrill. But when you pursue more than the commodity the provider is providing...it can lead to nothing but trouble.

Lilianna

Me too so I can offer this for your viewing pleasure without it being a shot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XqbJkm0VZU

Live long and prosper fellow geek.

No, I'm not an 18yo super model.......I'm 32, badass, and awesome. Originally Posted by SillyGirl

Very true!

No, I'm not an 18yo super model.......I'm 32, badass, and awesome.

Also german/irish....shitfaced is relative. Originally Posted by SillyGirl

"chicken feet, bowling ball". I love that qoute, the funniest shit I have read!!
And you look like a badass for sure!

Why is it that almost every chicklette that Sens raves about ends up disliking him after a certain amount of time. It can't just be us ladies.

You must have a guilty conscience.

I help the ladies because its the right thing to do. Do you honestly think I want one of them to get hurt? Robbed? NCNS'd? etc....

Of course I know they're my competition, but that doesn't matter to me because I don't live in KC, just visit. Its the same in whatever city I travel to or live in. I will help the ladies if I can period. The only reason that might be behind my helping is that I'd like to keep any ladies safe who I might be contacting as a reference. Oh no, Elena's horrible for doing it for that reason. OMG call the cops.

Don't try pulling the "you older gals won't help the younger gals cause you'll lose your business to them" shit with me. When will some of you realize, there's always a jack for every jill and just because some of us don't have 200 reviews doesn't mean we're not keeping busy.

Just because you have a dick and pay for pussy doesn't mean you know everything about the business. You know a portion of it unless you're a pimp.

I love sens55 econ 101 advice. Supply and demand and the market... Yes I'm kinda drunk but also Irish/German so mostly laugh at people trying to apply economics to escorting or gambling or other irrational business models.

Why is it that almost every chicklette that Sens raves about ends up disliking him after a certain amount of time. It can't just be us ladies.

You must have a guilty conscience.

I help the ladies because its the right thing to do. Do you honestly think I want one of them to get hurt? Robbed? NCNS'd? etc....

Of course I know they're my competition, but that doesn't matter to me because I don't live in KC, just visit. Its the same in whatever city I travel to or live in. I will help the ladies if I can period. The only reason that might be behind my helping is that I'd like to keep any ladies safe who I might be contacting as a reference. Oh no, Elena's horrible for doing it for that reason. OMG call the cops.

Don't try pulling the "you older gals won't help the younger gals cause you'll lose your business to them" shit with me. When will some of you realize, there's always a jack for every jill and just because some of us don't have 200 reviews doesn't mean we're not keeping busy.

Just because you have a dick and pay for pussy doesn't mean you know everything about the business. You know a portion of it unless you're a pimp. Originally Posted by MsElena

See, that's where you're wrong. Most of the girls I work with, DON'T end up disliking me. Most girls I meet NEVER come out publicly. Just the ones that come on here. Wonder why? I'm sure no providers around her would whisper in their ear that I'm an asshole or anything. But, make no mistake, I AM an asshole. And that accounts for a good percentage of the dislike. They love you when you're putting money in their pockets. They hate you when they find out they're not that special and that you've got three other girls just as good on the line. And some are even "regular" girls that "GASP" don't take money but do it for free. Yes. That's right. Some girls fuck for free.

And, you're right. I don't know everything about running the business. But I know more than 95% of the girls that try it. That whole MBA thing kinda comes in handy there. You make it seem like it's rocket science. It's business. And, yes, there are peculiarities to the business (as there are in ALL businesses) that one could never learn without doing it. But from a larger perspective, it's the only business I've ever seen where there are virtually no barriers to market entry (i.e., you don't have to have a license, a degree or start up capital), you don't have to have experience. You don't even really have to be very good at it. Heck, we regularly see girls come on here provide crappy service, argue with the customer, don't show up and are have in the bag when they do...and guys STILL line up to give them money. Even in a bad economy. Mind boggling

Omg yah super jealous.

................ And some are even "regular" girls that "GASP" don't take money but do it for free. Yes. That's right. Some girls fuck for free. ................. Originally Posted by Sens55

Let's look at that statement again. In truth, there is a huge amount of girls that do it for free. A single guy who is over 30 has more women lined up to give away free sex than most guys can dream of. I have had two women die so far and there were girls lined up at my door before they were cold in the grave. My third wife is ill, and I take care of her: but she is still alive, and the girls have made it clear that they are available.

So what good is the hobby; when you don't want a relationship started that will complicate your life.

JR

Let's look at that statement again. In truth, there is a huge amount of girls that do it for free. A single guy who is over 30 has more women lined up to give away free sex than most guys can dream of. I have had two women die so far and there were girls lined up at my door before they were cold in the grave. My third wife is ill, and I take care of her: but she is still alive, and the girls have made it clear that they are available.

So what good is the hobby; when you don't want a relationship started that will complicate your life.

JR Originally Posted by JRLawrence

See. I used to think the reason I hobbied was because the were the unspoken ethos that once you leave, it's over. Like the old joke. You don't pay for the sex. You pay them to leave afterward. A part of that was true. But I was stupid to think that. Some of these girls DO bring it to your doorstep. At least try. In fact, the very ones that go out of their way to tell you they're better than the others because of how "professional" they are, are the very ones that will cross those lines. Or have their handlers do it. Whatever.

Point is, I didn't join the hobby to be popular. I didn't join to have girls like, or love me. I joined it because it made sense to have a business like transaction without the emotion. And I've met some great, GREAT girls in the hobby. But so many are such a pain in the ass I can't figure out why I need to give them money? But make no mistake, there are girls that have done this for a while that still have the passion for it, are very professional and provide great value for the price. They are not necessarily CHEAPER. They just provide better value for the same money as others here. What pisses off a lot of girls is when they raise their prices and I say "you're not worth that much to me". Again, if I fucked her at $200 and she raises it to $250, what extra value do I get for the increase? Usually by that time, their services starts to wain anyway. Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe a girl should charge as much as they need to to maintain the level of business they want. And I totally get the "charge more, work less, make same" argument. But I also know I don't need to pay more if I think I can get similar value elsewhere. And unless she's stepped up her game or was already in a league by herself, not likely. But when you tell them that you don't see a reason to pay that much for their services....they take it personally. Go figure. Oh well. NEXT!