The Rich Get Richer

Thanks for the history lesson, ladies and gents, but we're getting off topic.

The United States, like any country requires contributions from its citizens in the forms of taxes in order to build, develop and maintain roads, schools, military defense, space exploration and countless other major projects.

While nobody really likes to pay taxes they still all want the benefits that such taxes provide.

. . . The central question here is can we afford to have a President leading this country who is a living example of how to screw the country out of its life blood?


Originally Posted by Fast Gunn

But I don't want the benefits of helping a person open a car dealership in Ukraine.
I don't want the benefit of assisting countries that hate us.
I don't want the benefit of endless wars that line the pockets of defense and oil profiteers.
I don't want the benefit of starting a manufacturing plant in Finland.
I don't want the benefit of sending arms to Mexican drug cartels.
I don't want the benefit of funding failing "green" firms like Solyndra that pocket the money for themselves.
I don't want the benefit of being protected from raw milk and lemonade.
I don't want the benefit of sending our First Family on vacations all over the world.
I don't want the benefit of having my every move spied on.
I don't want the benefit of having the UN in the US.
I don't want the benefit of paying people to not work, when they can.
I don't want the benefit of a Justice Department investigating political enemies instead of criminals.
I don't want the benefit of being an an owner of a car company that will never pay us back.
I don't want the benefit of giving money to corrupt banks that are "too big to fail".
I don't want the benefit of a space program whose mission is to make Muslims feel good, rather than explore space.
I don't want the benefit of allowing people to enter this country illegally and unhindered.
I don't want the benefit of a military that is commanded by a person who wants an American empire, rather than protection of vital national interests.
I don't want the benefit of a military that is not allowed to win wars started by old men who want their buddies to make money on the implements of war.
I don't want the benefit of a government that regulates the size and value of the money supply to benefit banks and not people.
I don't want the benefit of bureaucratic regulators who write stupid regulations to inhibit the free market.
I don't want the benefit of a tax system that is used to manipulate by regulating what I can do and how much I can make, and force me to report all that the government that does not have my best interest at heart.
I don't want the benefit of being indefinitely detained.
And I don't want the benefit of spending a Presidential campaign focused on stupid issues like tax returns instead of addressing the real issues of spending and freedom.

Don't tell me that I want services but don't want to pay for them. Try providing service that are worth paying for.

Rather, tell me how you are going to turn around the deplorable downsizing of freedom, and outrageous increase in spending that's happening in this country.

STFU about tax returns and address the real issues. The only reason the tax returns are an issue is because Obama has such a deplorable and indefensible record on spending and freedom. He is hoping that people will forget how awful he is as a President if he can create some class warfare innuendo.

I don't know how anyone could support that man. He is the most corrupt, anti-American president in history, by far.

It's important to understand how the tax code works?

Well, that is a tall order, buddy!

I doubt even the accountants fully know that!

The tax code should be streamlined, condensed and simplified.

However, that is really a different matter than what we're talking about here.

My contention is that anyone making millions of dollars in income should pay more than 13% income tax.

. . . If you are running for President then you will be scrutinized even more and must set an example of how to be a good citizen not a good tax dodger!

I am a CPA and have an advanced law degree in taxation. The law is ridiculous and needs to be replaced. There is no reform to it.

Tax dodgers go to jail. Tax avoiders get rich. Why not have a system where you make it on your own, and don't have to depend on favorable tax treatment? Let the market determine the value of your investments and decisions.

But this tax return issue the real dodge. Address the issues, dammit! Tax returns are not issues unless a crime has been committed. The IRS would have found that out.

Give it up, and move on.

what is disconcerting is obama's attempt to make the issue of Mr. Romney's tax return a real live campaign topic....and people go along with it.

we have the destruction of american before us, the deficits caused by obama are beyond anything comprehensible, and with nothing, nothing to show for it....and romney knows that to play along with this stupid tactic by providing tax returns just feeds into the idiocy of obama's campaign

I'm not seeing the point the OP intends, I don't think. When you're coming from the other side (like I seem to be) This argument is so blatently a red herring away from the stuff that matters.

When Romney wins, I'm TOTALLY down for hearing stuff he has actually done that is wrong or folks he's in with that are super bad news. But getting down on a guy that is good enough to only LEGALLY pay 13% is my hero {(anyone that pays less than 15% legally is pretty damn smart, even if he was just smart enough to hire the right folks to get his taxes that low.)

I think the difference between the rising movement and Republicians/tea party/democrats, is that we want the truth. The truth has no agenda. I want to hear the absolute truth about every single politician out there and if it's R that is screwing up, I will be equally as hard on them as I would any D. The letters do not matter anymore. Whether or not you are good or bad, matters. Period.

what is disconcerting is obama's attempt to make the issue of Mr. Romney's tax return a real live campaign topic....and people go along with it.

we have the destruction of american before us , Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

This coming from a birther!

Well, at least we agree on the tax code issue, but that is not the focus of this conversation.

Further, no one has said that Romney broke the law, just that he paid far too little for someone who has made so many millions.

As to the "real" issues, well, that is a real part of the problem, not a dodge, as you put it when you just don't want to face up to the problem.

Some one who aspires to the highest office in the land, must be prepared to put his tax returns out there from the start, not hem and haw saying that the matter is not relevant and we finally discover that he was probably embarrassed that people would find out that he paid less taxes than a hard working maid.

. . . Personally, I believe that such a trait demonstrates a character flaw.

I am a CPA and have an advanced law degree in taxation. The law is ridiculous and needs to be replaced. There is no reform to it.

Tax dodgers go to jail. Tax avoiders get rich. Why not have a system where you make it on your own, and don't have to depend on favorable tax treatment? Let the market determine the value of your investments and decisions.

But this tax return issue the real dodge. Address the issues, dammit! Tax returns are not issues unless a crime has been committed. The IRS would have found that out.

Give it up, and move on. Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

When Romney wins, I'm TOTALLY down for hearing stuff he has actually done that is wrong or folks he's in with that are super bad news. But getting down on a guy that is good enough to only LEGALLY pay 13% is my hero {(anyone that pays less than 15% legally is pretty damn smart, even if he was just smart enough to hire the right folks to get his taxes that low.)

. Originally Posted by LovingKayla

You do understand that with low taxes that you should start building your own roads and schools and paying for your own Defense, pay for your own Cops and Courts and jails. I could go on and on.

Somebody making 20 million a year and paying a 13% tax rate maybe a hero to you but what is does is expose a flaw in the tax system.If it can be used in a teaching moment to clean up all the loopholes in our tax code, fine. Romney would be my hero too, right after we flogged the Mormon out of him.

My point is really quite simple.

Someone who has made millions in this country should pay more than 13%. What is so hard to grasp about that?

However, if you really think that someone who is clever enough to cheat the government out of paying his fair share of taxes is your hero than you must really be hard up for heroes.

. . . A person running for President should be a paragon of virtue, not a clever tax dodger even is such a dubious practice is admired by misguided souls who do not see the consequences on the welfare of the country.

I'm not seeing the point the OP intends, I don't think. When you're coming from the other side (like I seem to be) This argument is so blatently a red herring away from the stuff that matters.

When Romney wins, I'm TOTALLY down for hearing stuff he has actually done that is wrong or folks he's in with that are super bad news. But getting down on a guy that is good enough to only LEGALLY pay 13% is my hero {(anyone that pays less than 15% legally is pretty damn smart, even if he was just smart enough to hire the right folks to get his taxes that low.)

I think the difference between the rising movement and Republicians/tea party/democrats, is that we want the truth. The truth has no agenda. I want to hear the absolute truth about every single politician out there and if it's R that is screwing up, I will be equally as hard on them as I would any D. The letters do not matter anymore. Whether or not you are good or bad, matters. Period. Originally Posted by LovingKayla

My contention is that anyone making millions of dollars in income should pay more than 13% income tax.

Originally Posted by Fast Gunn

Do you understand the difference in earned and investment income?
INVESTMENT is what starts businesses, and helps the country grow. A tax break on investments lures investors into providing the funds to keep the country growing. The rich risk their own money (gamble) on what they hope will give them the best return. Eliminate the benefit, and the smart money will stop investing.

I am sure Mittens would love to swap tax liability with you. He pays 13% on many millions of dollars. You pay 25-30 percent on what he considers pocket change.

So if president Obama took legal deductions to lower his tax rate to the legal minimum for his income level, does that impugn his character? Does it make Warren Buffet a scumbag not worthy of holding office?

. Eliminate the benefit, and the smart money will stop investing.

. Originally Posted by texasjohn1965

Oh , you mean we would not have this huge stock bubble?

So yes , I say Eliminate the fuc out of this huge benefit to the wealthy. How many poor folks you know that invest in stocks and bonds?

If you gave a tax break to people to grow corn to turn into gas, wealthy people would take advantage of it. Wait that is wtf we already do. Is it right?

How about solar energy? Big loans and tax breaks for wealthy folks, is that ok?

So if president Obama took legal deductions to lower his tax rate to the legal minimum for his income level, does that impugn his character? Does it make Warren Buffet a scumbag not worthy of holding office? Originally Posted by Ducbutter

Warren Buffet is to smart to try and run for office!

The point yoiu are missing is not that Mitt is a tax cheat, the point is why are his taxes so God Damn low!

This coming from a birther! Originally Posted by WTF

Oh , you mean we would not have this huge stock bubble?

So yes , I say Eliminate the fuc out of this huge benefit to the wealthy.

If you gave a tax break to people to grow corn to turn into gas, wealthy people would take advantage of it. Wait that is wtf we already do. Is it right?

How about solar energy? Big loans and tax breaks for wealthy folks, is that ok?


Warren Buffet is to smart to try and run for office!

The point yoiu are missing is not that Mitt is a tax cheat, the point is why are his taxes so God Damn low! Originally Posted by WTF

I didn't miss any point. You even say he's not a cheat. Therefore,following your logic, he used legal means to lower his tax rate as low as he could. Nothing unethical about that. It's smart. I'll bet you do it. I know the current president does. Romney just started with a lower rate as most of his income was taxed under cap gains.
And Buffet might just be too smart to run for office. But he's also smart enough to take full legal advantage of the tax system. He paid the same percentage as Romney. But I guess since he supports BO there's nothing wrong with him doing it.

I would love to have the same rates as Mitt. I checked my federal income tax rates and my marginal rate is 28% and my effective rate is 19.9% not counting SS & Med. taxes I've paid. LT capital gain rates should be lower than regular rates, but you shouldn't be able to disguise your regular earnings as all LT capital gains which is what veture capitalists have been able to do.