While We're on the Subject of IOP, Let's Address the White Elephant ...

Only to a batshit crazy chubby ho! Be careful or you'll call yourself out...!

Besides, there was only ever room for one Marvelous and we all know that's ME!

I am pretty anti the illusion of anything. I would say I am a ymmv hobbiest. I spend a fair amount of time doing my research and then communicating prior to and during the session. I want to see if their is chemistry.
I try to treat it like picking up a girl at a bar to take home for lack of a better example. One needs to be interesting and be interesting. I am genuinely interested. Then when bcd it doesn't seem so awkward to me.
With unlimited time and budget would I prefer the girl get an O. Yes of course.
With limited time, I will make an attempt in trying to get myself there.
Maybe I am wrong, I think most providers would rather the guy get his than be focusing on her I. Let's face it, it is a mystery down there and up there. Its not possible to get one every time.
I don't need an illusion. No reason to try to create one. If its not their, so the session and on to the next.

This is one of the reasons I made the decision to be more of a swinger than a hobbyist. The ladies I meet are genuinely happy to make a real connection. Use real names, real addresses, phone numbers, etc. Come over for a cookout and a night of board games and then head home or to bed for a romp depending on how you're feeling that day.

There's no risk of arrest, or outing. When fear is removed from the equation, passion can be more of a reality than an illusion. When your wife knows and either wants the play by play related to her later, or to join in, that amps up the passion as well. If you're having fun that's a double good because telling her about it later will get her motor running and lead to more fun. If you had a dead fish experience that won't do much for her later. So you'll essentially have struck out twice. Better put some effort into it!

I think the social taboo, legal risk, financial strain, and other fear generating aspects make passion a lot harder to maintain in the hobby than in swinging. The risks in swinging are mostly emotional entanglements, differing expectations, and communication of ground rules. And those can be enormous problems of course. But if managed well they enable passion to flow in both directions. Originally Posted by dmcleod

I totally agree with you, Mr. McCleod. But even in the demimonde, there are women with whom you don't have to worry about arrests, emotional entanglements, social taboo, fear-generating factors or an illusion.

They differentiate themselves in the way they carry themselves, and the way they conduct their business. There are women who are swingers that have issues that drive them to swinging and promiscuity in general that are more detrimental than the need for cash. And not every provider is driven to Companionship by the need of money. The difference is very noticeable.

We're all just women. Some of us have issues that keep us from being genuine during NSA encounters. Some of us know ourselves, and what it takes for us to be genuine.

For some of us, it's money. Some of these fellas' wives get wet like a fire hydrant when they get a promotion and dry like the desert if they lose their job. For a lady like me whose not promiscuous in her real life, I would like every interaction with men to be as genuine as possible. The more you need, the more I have to give.

Some swingers are using sex to fill a hole, and they're filling the wrong ones. Either with sex workers or swingers, you're spending time with consenting women and getting what you want. It seems that in either case, the emotion behind the person's actions isn't considered.

If you judge women differently because they choose not to have sex with strangers for free, remember we're all being judged. Just as no sin is greater than the other, no sub sect of a demimonde is better than the other.

I totally agree with you, Mr. McCleod. But even in the demimonde, there are women with whom you don't have to worry about arrests, emotional entanglements, social taboo, fear-generating factors or an illusion.

They differentiate themselves in the way they carry themselves, and the way they conduct their business. There are women who are swingers that have issues that drive them to swinging and promiscuity in general that are more detrimental than the need for cash. And not every provider is driven to Companionship by the need of money. The difference is very noticeable.

I couldn't have said it better!

We're all just women. Some of us have issues that keep us from being genuine during NSA encounters. Some of us know ourselves, and what it takes for us to be genuine.

For some of us, it's money. Some of these fellas' wives get wet like a fire hydrant when they get a promotion and dry like the desert if they lose their job. For a lady like me whose not promiscuous in her real life, I would like every interaction with men to be as genuine as possible. The more you need, the more I have to give.

Some swingers are using sex to fill a hole, and they're filling the wrong ones. Either with sex workers or swingers, you're spending time with consenting women and getting what you want. It seems that in either case, the emotion behind the person's actions isn't considered.

If you judge women differently because they choose not to have sex with strangers for free, remember we're all being judged. Just as no sin is greater than the other, no sub sect of a demimonde is better than the other.

Originally Posted by Tiffani Jameson

Well said Tiffany ...

Maybe I am wrong, I think most providers would rather the guy get his than be focusing on her

I've had some conversations with a guy from Denmark, and he goes across the border to Germany to the "Health Clubs" and he said the culture of guys there is very different from here. There it's thought inconsiderate to give a provider orgasms, because it tires her out, and makes it difficult for her to see enough clients in a day to make decent money. He recounted stories of seeing some American tourist, who he thought was probably using Viagra, come swaggering out of one of the private rooms with his companion walking a bit unsteadily beside him and the locals just shook their heads. The working girls in these clubs make much less on a per encounter basis than an escort does in the U.S. so he essentially diminished her earning power for the day by getting her off instead of just himself.

I found that attitude surprising. I would have imagined the occasional orgasm to be a welcome event for a provider, but I can understood that true passion, and the accompanying recovery period afterward, would be a detriment to business in some cases. Kind of like that co worker who stops by for the last hour of the day for a lovely chat, but you find yourself working late afterward so you don't miss deadlines.

If you judge women differently because they choose not to have sex with strangers for free, remember we're all being judged. Just as no sin is greater than the other, no sub sect of a demimonde is better than the other. Originally Posted by Tiffani Jameson

I apologize if I was coming across as saying swingers were objectively better than providers/hobbyists. As you correctly observe, both communities are made up of people. And people, no matter what labels may be applied to them, fall all along the spectrum of "having your shit together." It's entirely possible to be ruined, legally, financially, and socially due to activities in either sphere. As in so many things, discretion and careful discernment is the better part of valor.

I've had some conversations with a guy from Denmark, and he goes across the border to Germany to the "Health Clubs" and he said the culture of guys there is very different from here. There it's thought inconsiderate to give a provider orgasms, because it tires her out, and makes it difficult for her to see enough clients in a day to make decent money. He recounted stories of seeing some American tourist, who he thought was probably using Viagra, come swaggering out of one of the private rooms with his companion walking a bit unsteadily beside him and the locals just shook their heads. The working girls in these clubs make much less on a per encounter basis than an escort does in the U.S. so he essentially diminished her earning power for the day by getting her off instead of just himself. Originally Posted by dmcleod

That's an accurate assumption for a woman who works at that pace/price range. IOP is not an expectation anywhere it's legal I noticed. It's actually looked on as a bonus. The lady who can pull off IOP under those working conditions, or being obviously high volume I take my hat off to her/them.

It's better than some guys in the US who want to pay the lowest prices but have the highest expectations. And then to have the audacity to say that you don't care how the lady feels because you're paying? And you wonder why she didn't seem into you. Like Ms. Eva said, you get what you give.

I found that attitude surprising. I would have imagined the occasional orgasm to be a welcome event for a provider, but I can understood that true passion, and the accompanying recovery period afterward, would be a detriment to business in some cases. Kind of like that co worker who stops by for the last hour of the day for a lovely chat, but you find yourself working late afterward so you don't miss deadlines.

Recovery period? Detriment? Can you please explain this? I don't feel that you recover from passion, especially true passion. It's an energy to be used. Especially for women. Passion makes you happy. Passion is the difference between "Now Serving #5" and structuring your service so that you can look forward to your next client. True passion doesn't mean you're falling in love with anyone. It's being aware that you're enjoying a moment, and being okay with that enjoyment and letting go of the person because the moment is a part of you.

Anyone who's ever asked me for a reference for my clients, no matter how long it's been, can tell you I remember these jokers like the back of my hand. It's not only attributed to a good memory, but they have also touched me in some way. And it's never anything big (pun intended ), but it's little things like how his mustache tickled my thighs, or the intense look in his eyes, or the way he grabs my face as he kisses me. I like that guy who recognizes the difference in the time he has when he's met a happy companion.

I apologize if I was coming across as saying swingers were objectively better than providers/hobbyists. As you correctly observe, both communities are made up of people. And people, no matter what labels may be applied to them, fall all along the spectrum of "having your shit together." It's entirely possible to be ruined, legally, financially, and socially due to activities in either sphere. As in so many things, discretion and careful discernment is the better part of valor. Originally Posted by dmcleod

Duncan McCleod of the Clan McCleod (both an assumption and an association), you are indeed valiant. No need to apologize. At least you've given it some thought. You do have to have your shit together to do either. I love that quote, by the way.

To the gents, how is it that you make a provider feel like SHE'S the only one, and dare I say, special? She may not be your ATF/Regular lady of choice, but do you feel it's equally important to make her feel so? What do you do to show this whilst in her company ?

While in her company I fall back to the way I was raised. I open doors and in general treat her as a lady. I do receive flack at times but it is second nature to me. It is difficult to be an old goat in this hobby. I am into this because I enjoy the women I am with and I am made happy to see a beautiful smile.

To the gents, how is it that you make a provider feel like SHE'S the only one, and dare I say, special? She may not be your ATF/Regular lady of choice, but do you feel it's equally important to make her feel so? What do you do to show this whilst in her company ?

While in her company I fall back to the way I was raised. I open doors and in general treat her as a lady. I do receive flack at times but it is second nature to me. It is difficult to be an old goat in this hobby. I am into this because I enjoy the women I am with and I am made happy to see a beautiful smile. Originally Posted by tucson

Obviously, in this industry, that is difficult to a fault to treat a provider as if she is the only one period, but it is not too hard to accomplish that feat for the time you are with her. Personally, my undivided attention, cleanest hygiene and utmost respect is given to the lady, hoping she gives me hers. Even sometimes starting off the session with giving her a gift at my discretion, to break the ice of a first time meeting, hence why guys should check out the profiles of these ladies as opposed to just looking at the pics.

I do not think the opening of doors is relevant, unless part of your session includes going to dinner, for example, you as a man should always open her car door, close it when you getting in it, then after you have arrived to your destination, get out, open her car door, give her your hand to hold so she can get out, and close the door behind her. Walk with her side by side, then when just before you reach the the door, walk ahead of her so that you can open the door for her. When ordering, ask what she wants on the menu and then you tell the waiter both of your orders, never just order for her without asking her what she wants. After the meal, make sure she is through before you allow anyone to take her plate away, then pay, tip the server and open the doors again for her. If she does not allow some or all of the activities to be done by you, that is her call on what she will allow you to do for her, I know several ladies who told me they would order for themselves. All you as a man have to do it show some initiative and have the wherewithall to do the gentlemanly things, and even if she takes the bull by the horns and does it herself, she should give you the same props as if you actually did everything a gentleman is suppose to do, and the way a provider shows that is simply by making you feel glad you are man when you get back and into the bedroom (the donation plays a small part too).

GOOD GODS DAVID!!! FRIGGIN BREATHE!!!!!

Damn, David sounds stopped up. Hey bud, more fiber in your diet ...

To the gents, how is it that you make a provider feel like SHE'S the only one, and dare I say, special? She may not be your ATF/Regular lady of choice, but do you feel it's equally important to make her feel so? What do you do to show this whilst in her company ?

While in her company I fall back to the way I was raised. I open doors and in general treat her as a lady. I do receive flack at times but it is second nature to me. It is difficult to be an old goat in this hobby. I am into this because I enjoy the women I am with and I am made happy to see a beautiful smile. Originally Posted by tucson

I chew their kitty, tickle their taint, and give them two minutes of hard loving ... that is the same as opening the door, isn't it?

To be honest, I do not want the whole illusion of passion and what not. It is to fake to me, kinds of turns me off. We both know why im there. I dont seek gfe so I do not expect it. Now this does not mean I am in anyway rude, mean or disrespectful. Each lady I see as my attention we can talk about whatever, laugh, joke. But Im there for the sex and thats it .

I give 100% respect in each session.

I have no illusion that there is any romance but the companionship is nice. You young studs can do things your way but it is my money and I will continue to do my thing. Have fun.

I personally, don't believe in "illusion" of anything as well. Either as a provider, you're a true nymph, calling your girlfriend up about what a great cock your recent Lover had (BSB), Or you're just a moaner. My ads say "no illusion of passion" because it's no "illusion" . Chivalry goes a long way on the gents end, but is not the end all. Treating your companion as one, and not an object to which you hurriedly fuck (ok I'll admit I enjoy this with long-term Lovers) feels much better.

Eva
A couple of ladies I see the most are just great fun from the first minute to the last. Dallas Rain has me going in one respect or the other. Emerald7 is another lady that I have fun with. Yummy Marie was my birthday present this year. I look for fun and sex from all of the ladies. I am sure most of the guys are looking for getting their rocks off and not much more. I enjoy the company of women and search for those that have a sense of humor and intelligence.