UTR: Pros in sheep's clothing....Deceptive?

I don't understand why this an issue.

There is a whole spectrum of hobby venues from SW quickie through BP, Agency, Indy and SB/SD arrangements blending into the "life-style"s and casual sex hook-ups.

Whats the big deal? If you are looking for an informal hook-up and she wants money, go find someone else. If you want in to the swinger scene and the SO won't play along, bring in a pro.

What ever you do, it will cost you.

You have a very interesting POV when it comes to guys, SBs and motivations behind one (guy or girl) entering into a SD/SB relationship. It is not as simplistic as you seem to make it appear. Granted, a lot of what you say is true to some degree. Yes, there are guys out there who adamantly feel a "real" SB can't come from a background of being pro in the sex business. There are some who think it is possible for a pro to be an SB. Then you have the motivation factors. Some guys love the thrill of the hunt. For them, a pro is not much of a challenge b/c she knows she is getting paid-- one way or another. For them, the non-pros are best b/c they have no expectations or limited expectations. As for the pro ladies, we all know what the motivating factor is; however, for the non-pro, they may or may not be aware of financial benefits that they may be able to reap from an SD/SB relationship. Also, some non-pros may look at assistance with rent, or paying a bill here and there, or tuition money to not be the same as being a provider or escort. You can't over simplify how one approaches this type of arrangement.

Also, I wouldn't go as far as to call some one misogynistic based on how they view providers and civie women. With a provider, it is a business transaction at the core of the matter. No matter how one looks at it; the bottom line is a P4P arrangement. There are no expectations of affection after the session is over. Sure during the session, there might be passion and intimacy beyond just the various acts. Heck, both people might actually "click", but at the end of the day, both people know the name of the game. Sure, they may even see each other again. That is why we call this an ATF.

Now, when it comes to civie relationships and even an SD/SB thing, it goes beyond a simple P4P arrangement. Hopefully with this type of arrangement, there are some types of mutual feelings. Both parties might consider the financial arrangement to be of secondary importance when compared to having a good time together. In a civie or SD/SB arrangement, one party should be able to call the other party (with reasonable notice) to set up a date and have a good time together without the notion of payment or assistance coming into play. With this type of arrangement, the parties see time together as a very important aspect of the relationship.

It really is too complex to make it one size fits all. I'm sure there are other situations and factors that I haven't even considered. That is what makes it complex, but enticing. Originally Posted by Cpalmson

Well said, CPalmson!! I do not think that a provider can become a SB, I KNOW that a provider can become a SB!! Like almost any situation regarding human beings, it depends on the individual person. We are all different and unique, something many of the folks on here forget. Providers are people, with all the differences and variances of personality and emotions found in the civie world. What they choose to do for a living is not neccessarily who they are.

You hit the nail right on the head when you said that there must be mutual feelings and that both parties feel that the finanacial arrangement is secondary to having a good time together. Also, they must have a genuine desire to make each others lives better. While my SB and I see each other an average of twice per week, we also talk on the phone almost every day; not because we have to, but because we want to. Sometimes our phone conversations will last for hours. Our lives are entwined because we genuinely care about each other. There are times when she will have to cancel a date, or cut a date short because her daughter is sick. That's one of the things I most admire about her, she is a great mom and her daughter always comes first.

I understand that some people here have no desire for our type of relationship, and that's fine. To each, his/her own. That is why they make both vanilla and chocolate, my friend. Perhaps, we can just agree to disagree on this topic and understand that what works for one, may not work for everyone and move on.

There is a famous story about sex and money that I have heard in myriad variations. A man asks a woman if she would be willing to sleep with him if he pays her an exorbitant sum. She replies affirmatively. He then names a paltry amount and asks if she would still be willing to sleep with him for the revised fee. The woman is greatly offended and replies as follows:

She: What kind of woman do you think I am?

He: We’ve already established that. Now we’re just haggling over the price.


The SB vs Hooker debate seem to be one of those "beaten to death" topics on this board. Some people need to put labels on their preferred ways of PLAY FOR PAY in order to make themselves feel better about their personal choices. Its called self delusion.

What does it matter if someone charging/paying another person a house (marriage), salary (monthly retainer) or fee (hourly compensation)? As long as underlying basis for the relationship is MONEY, it is P4P.

As for pros on dating sites. Being a companion is PROFESSION not personality attribute. Plenty of women who work as escorts actually have interests outside of P4P. They want friendship, companionship, love, relationships. They have goals and aspirations. They have "pro" persona and "civvie" persona, just like our clients who have "hobby" accounts on ECCIE and "civvie" accounts on Match.com

I am not on vanilla dating sites because between being Ms. Lina and running real life business I have no time for traditional dating. I do however have a profile on swing site. Swing lifestyle is part of my personal life and has absolutely nothing to do with my professional life. If John Doe contacts me via my swing lifestyle I could not care less about how much money he has, what he does for living. I do however want to see pics and certificates.