the az law what you think

OK - I have 2 questions.

First, it was stated above that "...the biggest problem we have, our government doesn't enforce its laws. That's proven time and time again." And, I agree with that statement. Yet, when a state, like Arizona, attempts to enforce the immigration laws, there is outrage and opposition in their attempts to enforce those laws. Is there a dichotomy in this thought process? (Amendment X says that "the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.")

Second - Did anyone agree with the Phoenix Suns wearing their "Los Suns" jerseys during Wednesday night's NBA playoff game? If you did agree with this move, and the reasoning expressed by Suns' management for wearing those jerseys - to support their diverse fan base in light of the Arizona anti-illegal immigration law - would you also be in support of a move by a team like the Utah Jazz, who has a conservative constituancy, if they decided to wear a small patch on their jerseys stating "Choose Life" to support their fan base who is most decidedly anti-abortion? In this case, where to you draw the line?

Immigration Solutions

Force the mexican government to impliment methods to curb the illegal exidice from their country, force them to address the coruption within their government that steals millions of dollars which keeps their people in poverty. Until they do so, freeze all aid to the country, terminate trade agreements, force companies to move back to the USA.

Fast track the legal immigration process, remove some of the buracracy, in general make it easier to immigrate legally.

Impliment severe penalties to include imprisonment for hiring illegal/undocumentated workers. Its obvious that the punishments in effect have not been severe enough to stop the meat company in Martin City from hiring them. They have been fined two times for violations, impliment a $1,000,000.00 per undocumented worker fine.

Begin a country wide sweep for all illegal immigrants regardless of race. Arrest them and deport them, put them on the no fly list. Change the law to state that anyone that has been deported from this country shall not be allowed to return. Those entering the country after being deported are in violation of Federal law and will be imprisoned for a minimum of 10 years and upon completion of their sentence deported again. 2nd violation is a life term.

Change the law which states that if your born here your a US citizen. Your a citizen only if your born here and your parents were legally elligible to be here. If your an illegal immigrant then the baby retains the citizenship of the country of their origin. This is how other countries do it, there is no reason we should be different.

Fritz I believe Elana is talking about eliminating the "pull" factors, in immigration you have push and pull factors, push factors are those which push a person to immigrate, war, poverty, political repression. Pull factors are those things that draw an immigrant to you or pull them towards a country, these include, freedom, economic opportunities etc. If we severly punished those countries that hire illegals you would eliminate a pull factor because there would be fewer opportunites. I also dont believe she is upset with Arizona wanting to do something about immigration she just objects to the profiling involved. A lot of those who are in disagreement, feel the results will not justify the means, do you suspend racial equality to fight a social problem? Here is an interesting note for you. The two times in our nations history where people were imprisoned for their race or political beliefs, the Progressives where in the oval office. 32,000 people were imprisoned by Woodrow Wilson for speaking out in oposition to his policies and the Japanese were imprisoned by FDR.

Elena I appologize if I am speaking out of turn regarding your view points.

I disagreed with the move the Suns made. Oh yeah, Cinco de myo (not sure of the spelling) is not a holiday in Mexico, its a celebration of the Mexican Armys victory over the French army in the battle of Puebla. From what I understand, it was a day established by Corona beer as an advertising ploy that we have turned into a holiday in this country. Its only celebated in Puebla and the US and is not celebrated in Mexico. Its my understanding that Mexican independence day is in Sept. If I am wrong let me know.

Immigration Solutions

Change the law which states that if your born here your a US citizen. Your a citizen only if your born here and your parents were legally elligible to be here. If your an illegal immigrant then the baby retains the citizenship of the country of their origin. This is how other countries do it, there is no reason we should be different. Originally Posted by dirty dog

While I agree that there are a number of possible solutions to the immigration issues, I must respectfully disagree with the solution you propose above. I state that this is one reason that MAKES the U.S. different. Why should the United States adopt any traditions or laws of other countries? It's what people, especially in this administration, are trying to do - drag the United States down to the level of other countries in the world rather than showing, by our example, how great the United States is and how other countries can emulate our example of democracy, representative republic and freedom. It is not the fault of the innocent child born in the U.S. that his/her parent(s) entered the country illegally, but that should not deprive that child of the potential of U.S. citizenship.

I would modify this suggestion, to state that while the child born on U.S. soil may be a U.S. citizen, if his/her parent(s) are in this country illegally at the time of his/her birth the child must return to the country of his/her parent(s) origin with his/her parent(s) until such time as one or both parent(s) obtain legal immigration status or until the child reaches 16 years of age.

If you're born in the United States, you are a citizen of the United States. No if's, and's or but's.

Fritz I believe Elana is talking about eliminating the "pull" factors, in immigration you have push and pull factors, push factors are those which push a person to immigrate, war, poverty, political repression. Pull factors are those things that draw an immigrant to you or pull them towards a country, these include, freedom, economic opportunities etc. If we severly punished those countries that hire illegals you would eliminate a pull factor because there would be fewer opportunites. I also dont believe she is upset with Arizona wanting to do something about immigration she just objects to the profiling involved. A lot of those who are in disagreement, feel the results will not justify the means, do you suspend racial equality to fight a social problem? Here is an interesting note for you. The two times in our nations history where people were imprisoned for their race or political beliefs, the Progressives where in the oval office. 32,000 people were imprisoned by Woodrow Wilson for speaking out in oposition to his policies and the Japanese were imprisoned by FDR.

Elena I appologize if I am speaking out of turn regarding your view points. Originally Posted by dirty dog

dd - I wasn't speaking specifically to or about Elena's comments, just the quote she stated regarding the government's inability to enforce it's own laws. And, if you go back to page 2 of this discussion, I did reference the previous "knee-jerk" reactions by the government - specifically toward the Japanese (or those of Asian decent) and those of German decent during WWII.

"It's what people, especially in this administration, are trying to do - drag the United States down to the level of other countries in the world rather than showing, by our example, how great the United States is and how other countries can emulate our example of democracy, representative republic and freedom. It is not the fault of the innocent child born in the U.S. that his/her parent(s) entered the country illegally, but that should not deprive that child of the potential of U.S. citizenship."

How is it a benefit to this country to give them citizenship? If your born in Germany and your parents are American then the child should be German. Second your assumign that the child wants to be an American, just because we view it as a good thing they may not. I think your American arrogance is showing their a little Fritz LOL, we are not "depriving" them of anything, just because the water broke in Boston should not make them an automatic citizen.

"And, if you go back to page 2 of this discussion, I did reference the previous "knee-jerk" reactions by the government - specifically toward the Japanese (or those of Asian decent) and those of German decent during WWII."

I only put that in their to highlight that as much as the left likes to paint the right as the evil ones they were the party that imprisoned their own citizens.

How is it a benefit to this country to give them citizenship? If your born in Germany and your parents are American then the child should be German. Second your assumign that the child wants to be an American, just because we view it as a good thing they may not. I think your American arrogance is showing their a little Fritz LOL, we are not "depriving" them of anything, just because the water broke in Boston should not make them an automatic citizen. Originally Posted by dirty dog

Yep - United States citizen and damn proud of it - not of its leadership, but proud of the country. Arrogant - and loving it!!!!

Yes, my point exactly. Originally Posted by john_galt

Huh???

I see I am not the only one who is hearing Gary Coleman "whatcha talking about Willis"

"Yep - United States citizen and damn proud of it - not of its leadership, but proud of the country. Arrogant - and loving it!!!! "

LOL

Fritz I believe Elana is talking about eliminating the "pull" factors, in immigration you have push and pull factors, push factors are those which push a person to immigrate, war, poverty, political repression. Pull factors are those things that draw an immigrant to you or pull them towards a country, these include, freedom, economic opportunities etc. If we severly punished those countries that hire illegals you would eliminate a pull factor because there would be fewer opportunites. I also dont believe she is upset with Arizona wanting to do something about immigration she just objects to the profiling involved. A lot of those who are in disagreement, feel the results will not justify the means, do you suspend racial equality to fight a social problem? Here is an interesting note for you. The two times in our nations history where people were imprisoned for their race or political beliefs, the Progressives where in the oval office. 32,000 people were imprisoned by Woodrow Wilson for speaking out in oposition to his policies and the Japanese were imprisoned by FDR.

Elena I appologize if I am speaking out of turn regarding your view points.

I disagreed with the move the Suns made. Oh yeah, Cinco de myo (not sure of the spelling) is not a holiday in Mexico, its a celebration of the Mexican Armys victory over the French army in the battle of Puebla. From what I understand, it was a day established by Corona beer as an advertising ploy that we have turned into a holiday in this country. Its only celebated in Puebla and the US and is not celebrated in Mexico. Its my understanding that Mexican independence day is in Sept. If I am wrong let me know. Originally Posted by dirty dog

DD,

No problem and you spoke just fine for me. Although I do think that if we were to put them in prison, let it be in their home country. My tax dollars (yes I pay taxes) shouldn't be used to house an illegal in one of our prisons.

As far as Cino de Mayo is concerned, its not celebrated throughout the country. But, the US has "Americanized" it like it does with every other culture. Its turned into another day of drinking, eating and making a fool of yourself when drunk. Kinda like with St. Patricks Day.

If you wish to read up on it here's a few sites for ya:

http://latino.sscnet.ucla.edu/cinco.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinco_de_Mayo

Having looked at it and thought about it...we have to amend the 14th amendment to deny automatic citizenship to any and all born in the US under certain circumstances but we have to consider what this could cause. It would be convienent to say that anyone born in the US or illegal parents must be a citizen of the country of his or her parents birth. What is the new definition of illegal? Can we make it stick? What if only one parent is illegal? Remember such a law applies to everyone as it should. Can we petition the government for an amendment? What are the chances that Congress could do the job of the people?

What are the chances that Congress could do the job of the people? Originally Posted by john_galt

ROTFLMFAO

Man to read some of this stuff makes me sober. Its simple control the airports & the boarder how well it wont happen with out troups.