Provider's Rates: Self worth vs Perceived Value

Whether you agree with what she says or not, I have a a hard-on for Ms. OH. Take it easy JJ or I may have to reconsider grandfathering my rates for you my dear friend...my love for you both runs deep Originally Posted by YummyMarie

He certainly won't stop now

So what if anything have we learned here?

So what if anything have we learned here? Originally Posted by Luxury Daphne

Learned? There's educational value on a SOMB??

Yes of course! You can learn something everywhere, including in the slums.

I was made aware that some hobbyists think that all providers base their rate solely on vanity, or a bloated sense of self worth. That was and is the point of this thread.. to see if that is a factual assessment. Most of the providers on this thread have answered that they base their rates according to how much they need to make to cover their expenses, and what they feel like the market will bear for their respective talents.

So negotiating, shorting, and like attempts to not pay a provider's rate really hurts most of us in the long run, depending of course on how many clients you see and if this is just supplementary income opposed to the only source of income as well as other factors.

Most providers rates are well below HDH status. Hell even HDH have to make a certain amount of money to upkeep and maintain that which qualifies them as a HDH, so even that is relative. When dudes do such things (shorting, negotiating a much lower rate when it is unwarranted, NCNS, etc.) it really hurts most provider's bottom line. Though some people may think ''oh well she's just selling her body and there is no overhead in that'' and rest on the assumption that her rates fill some empty egotistical thought process, a lot of times that is just not so.

[QUOTE=OliviaHoward;1053070274]You're a known negotiator, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you've never been a working girl.

You are correct on both counts..!
I do negotiate and am not a female... But you know from personal experience,both of these items to be fact.!
Strangely, many here seem to think negotiating is a problem rather than an opportunity for the provider. after all, they can always say no.

"Yes, stay away from known hagglers".......very good advice Originally Posted by tbone2u

See, here we have an example of someone highly experienced in the game...but his advice to the provider is to lose the business rather than negotiate with the prospect.
This advice completely ignores the possibility that they may NEED to make some money.
Almost no businesses can get 100% retail pricing for what they sell all the time.
Check any basic business text and learn about how this kills business.
Or lets keep it simple...read "The Richest Man In Babylon" it is a very short book and has been around since dirt...without change... all these discussions will then go away.

Nothing at all wrong with a provider setting her rates at what the market demands and adjusting accordingly....As long as free market forces are all that is driving it. Problems arise when people try manipulating the market. Originally Posted by boardman

I agree w/ boardman here...though we apparently rarely see things the same.
They only thing I might point out is that someone is always trying to manipulate the market.(def. PIMP) ..any market...any time.

I always thought the same and was perplexed when we last met, socially, as to why I got a cold shoulder from her. Something had changed toward me on her part. Originally Posted by surcher

I too have had a similar experience with OH...but like her prices, it is her perogative to do as she wishes and with whom she wishes to associate.
It would be considered more civilized to advise the person of any percieved wrongs they may have done her, so they could be resolved...or not. But that too is her perogative.

Yes of course! You can learn something everywhere, including in the slums.
So negotiating, shorting, and like attempts to not pay a provider's rate really hurts most of us in the long run, depending of course on how many clients you see and if this is just supplementary income opposed to the only source of income as well as other factors.
Most providers rates are well below HDH status.
When dudes do such things (shorting, negotiating a much lower rate when it is unwarranted, NCNS, etc.) it really hurts most provider's bottom line. Originally Posted by Luxury Daphne

Luv ya LD.... but can't agree with your logic above...
First...please do not put negotiating and shorting in the same category.
One is a common business practice and is completely legitimate while the other is stealing.
Second, Negotiating does not hurt a business' bottom line...it may get a sale that would have otherwise gone to a competitor. You are only looking at the reduced profit and are ignoring that reduced profit is much better than none at all.

As for HDH rates...
This used to be if her rates were 3X what the hobbiest made in an hour.
By that calculation a hobbiest making $100K/yr would be seeking HDHs if she were more than 150/hr. So most did not.
Most hobbiests do not make $100K/yr.
So from that you can see that many on this board are quoting HDH rates.
ECCIE is known as a public HDH board...
One could verify by just check providers using multiple boards and seeing if ECCIE is often the highest priced.
BP has some ECCIE providers on it...that would make it easy to check.

Just my $0.02...

Forgive my simplistic response but it seems pretty elementary to me. In my experience - which is worth pretty much nothing - the very same people attempting to negotiate rates are the same ones who regularly short. Which is something I honestly didn't experience until going back to work in Houston since retirement in 2006. That aside, negotiations in any business transaction need to take all of the minutiae unique to the product , buyer and seller into mind. And frankly, that's not what's taking place. And I think we can all agree that it's pretty obvious. I may very well need the money. But in the end, I'm confident that most of us, as providers are fully aware that we can find other means to earn the necessary income we lack and many of us regularly walk away because the of the subject of this very discussion and the exhaustion it tends to create. I've only been back to work for less than a month and I can already understand why other providers refuse to even entertain the negotiation of rates.

Sorry to hear you have had the experience of being shorted and have connected that with people that negotiate in good faith.

One thing I can tell you from my experience...those who claim they WILL NOT negotiate OFTEN DO accept different rates and have no problem with those transactions.
There are a variety of problems that come up in life where guys have helped a lady out for an exchange of her services...this is really no ones business but theirs.
It goes the other way as well.

My suggestion is to make it easy on yourself...do as you wish.
No one is forcing you to accept an offer...you can always decline...right..?

Please do not confuse people who negotiate and do as they have agreed with other people who lie and short others on money...or services.
This too goes the other way as well.

ijs
L8r
r9

Forgive my simplistic response but it seems pretty elementary to me. In my experience - which is worth pretty much nothing - the very same people attempting to negotiate rates are the same ones who regularly short. Which is something I honestly didn't experience until going back to work in Houston since retirement in 2006. That aside, negotiations in any business transaction need to take all of the minutiae unique to the product , buyer and seller into mind. And frankly, that's not what's taking place. And I think we can all agree that it's pretty obvious. I may very well need the money. But in the end, I'm confident that most of us, as providers are fully aware that we can find other means to earn the necessary income we lack and many of us regularly walk away because the of the subject of this very discussion and the exhaustion it tends to create. I've only been back to work for less than a month and I can already understand why other providers refuse to even entertain the negotiation of rates. Originally Posted by gingerrjamison

If you don't want to or can't pay my rates, wait til it goes on special. Then you will know when I "need" the money bad enough to take a lower donation. Do you go to Macys and negotiate with them too, or do you just wait until it goes on sale?

To address your thoughts in a coherrent way:

1 - Yes, I know you aren't female.
2 - My experience with you has been to limit your access to my private functions for all the obvious reasons.
3 - Yes, it is my, as with any person, perogative to run their business anyway they see fit.
4 - I've never said to charge full retail all the time.
5 - Yes, it is better to turn down business instead of running your mind, body and soul ragged.
6 - It is also better to avoid men like you thave utterly no respect for the women or the service they provide.
7 - You are speaking from the "get your rocks" side of" as cheaply as possible side of the equation. Most gentlemen prefer the entire experience over the sucking your dick for a sweaty of twenties
8 - An HDH isn't $150 / hour. In fact that is an unreasonable amount particularly for what a lady sells off when she decides to enter the demimonde.
9 - He said let the market decide it. Not predators like you spending what has to an enorfant amount of time looking for those desparate. Pay her rate and she may not be desparate. In short you are manipulating the market.

If you don't want to or can't pay my rates, wait til it goes on special. Then you will know when I "need" the money bad enough to take a lower donation. Do you go to Macys and negotiate with them too, or do you just wait until it goes on sale? Originally Posted by Luxury Daphne

Thank you for clearing that up...
Just to be sure I have this straight...if a gent is short 10-20 for an hour session...he should not even call you...just call the next provider on the list.
You would not be interested in agreeing to a session for 20 less and getting him to be a regular client...
Seems clear, you do not need more regular clients. Many are not so lucky.

As to Macy's.... Well sweetie, for a quick answer...YES.
When I go to Macys...or Walmart...I would only negotiate if
First: Price for that item was higher than others advertised...Items are sometimes mis-priced on the floor.
Second: If I were speaking with someone authorized to make that deal.

You will find that both Walmart and Macy's sometimes will match another company's prices on certain items.
This is really not too relevant as these stores are selling products as a commodity and providers are selling services as a specialty.

When discussions of services and rates are being done, they must be done with someone in authority to make a deal.
If the person you are speaking with is not able to make these decisions, seek the person who understands the business enough to make the deal...
Sometimes this is a PIMP and I walk away immediately.

Many times the prices are reasonable and there is no discussion of them.
Examples of a commonly negotiable rate might be:
You saw a lady one Thursday and when you called her the following Tuesday she quotes a rate 2X what you paid on last Thurs.
A lady that has 1 review, just on the board and is asking prices as high as any other provider on the board.
A lady that has bad reviews and is an uncertain performer.

L8r
r9

I look at things differently r9 and you are right about one thing....we've both been around a long time.
I feel if the lady is in need enough to have to discount her price then it should be her decision and she will run a special or whatever. Do you know what I say to people they want to negotiate a price on the product I sell?
"if I have to go back and re-do the quote....it will be 5% higher".
The only products I am an aggressive negotiator with are cars and houses. Everything else...no..... and especially not with the ladies.

I for one can not understand the logic behind negotiating with a provider. Yeah, you may save 10 or 20 bucks, hell even $100, but she's going into the transaction feeling she's getting shorted. I want a provider satisfied that she's getting what she has deemed appropriate and prepared to offer all she has versus feeling like she's providing a service for less than it's worth. I get to decide if I think it's worth it. If I don't want to pay her price, I move on to someone else. And really!!! Trying to get a $10 discount? Jeez. Stay home and save your lunch money.

I for one can not understand the logic behind negotiating with a provider. Yeah, you may save 10 or 20 bucks, hell even $100, but she's going into the transaction feeling she's getting shorted. I want a provider satisfied that she's getting what she has deemed appropriate and prepared to offer all she has versus feeling like she's providing a service for less than it's worth. I get to decide if I think it's worth it. If I don't want to pay her price, I move on to someone else. And really!!! Trying to get a $10 discount? Jeez. Stay home and save your lunch money. Originally Posted by Sjc21108

It's not $10 or $20 off he's asking for. He's just being stupid. I went to one of the ASPD socials once that they had at that club downtown once. He introduced himself to me and we chatted a while. He got around to asking my rate. I told him when I date it's $350. He asked me how that was working out for me. I told him fine.

Before I could get away he was telling me every lady in the room and then some that has given him a $100 blow job. At this point I was facinated at A, he was saying this at a social, and B, what else he'd say. (I knew was a hobbiest because ladies kept saying hi to him. Guess they needed their lunch money.)

Then, thank you very much, he launched into how to give a blow job. Me. Telling me. A grown ass woman. I just laughed and went about my business. He followed me out at the end of the night. I just got in my SUV and left. Really, the audasity.

So, no, it isn't shaving a little off here and there. He's one of those guys that either fancies himself the smartest guy in the room - and we all know that's not true; the best lover since ever; or the obvious, a guy that likes to degrade women by making them beg.

Am I clear enough now Rhino?

This is awesome. Please don't stop.



Picture deleted by Pistolero

Being 10 or 20 bucks short is not a big deal to me. More than that is pushing it, and at 50 I may decline to see you again. I've noticed that once a guy shorts you or negotiates to a lower rate, every time you see him that will be your rate, mostly because that's all he's willing to give. And you are correct, this business we're in is not a commodity, its a luxury.