POLL: WHAT'S MORE IMPORTANT EQUALITY OR LIBERTY ???

So was Obamacare a victory for both liberty and equality ?

And it actually is a zero sum equation; you are nieve to say otherwise. Expanded federal government happens at the expense of individual liberties.

WTF and BigTex: If you didn't vote, so be it.

Why are you so afraid to say that you are willing to give up your liberties in exchange for equality? Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Whirly, if you are willing to re-write your poll to say something along these lines:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

If you do so, I might consider casting my vote! Otherwise, I am not participating!

I am not fishing for your vote. Just flushing out the phonies who say they support liberty, but throw it overboard by supporting an ever expanding federal government.

If you are not in that group, so be it. But no one has yet explained how the Federal Government can increase in size and power and liberty not be diminished.

If you are not in that group, so be it. But no one has yet explained how the Federal Government can increase in size and power and liberty not be diminished. Originally Posted by Whirlaway

That has nothing to do with equality...

God Damnn, where do you come up with these conclusions.

You and JD would be great at 6 dergee's of seperation.

Just flushing out the phonies Originally Posted by Whirlaway

If you're "flushing out the phonies," flush yours and SOF's commodes.

Leave mine alone!

Ok WTF, you are in the Alice In Wonderland camp that thinks society can have an expanding Federal Government AND NOT diminish individual liberties !

Like I said, you are in the dumb and dumber category.

HA.......good one BigTex, bet you slay them with your sharp wit at the local bar.

If you're "flushing out the phonies," flush yours and SOF's commodes.

Leave mine alone! Originally Posted by bigtex

Ok WTF, you are in the Alice In Wonderland camp that thinks society can have an expanding Federal Government AND NOT diminish individual liberties !

Like I said, you are in the dumb and dumber category. Originally Posted by Whirlaway

The government can not increase it's power without taking freedom from the individual. It's a zero-sum game.

Whiry, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you are wrong once again. I know that will shock everybody! Originally Posted by bigtex

HA.......good one BigTex, bet you slay them with your sharp wit at the local bar. Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Wrong once again! I stopped hanging out at the "local bars," years ago!

You're batting 1.000 though!

BigTurd, how can one be considered a"patriot" when that person opposes the core principles on which this country was founded? You support a big government, statist system which is antithetical to freedom. And you're a patriot? Not according to Thomas Paine.

The duty of a true patriot is to protect his country from its government. - Thomas Paine Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

I guess you didn't get the memo. Hating America is patriotic. It's Orwellian doublespeak. Hate is love, war is peace, our strength is in our diversity, etc.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men.
George Orwell

Didn't you ever notice that the people who make a platform out of civil rights (liberals) for groups are the same people trying to remove civil rights from other people (Obamacare).

James Madison (the primary architect of the Constitution) called for "limited" government with enumerated powers. Simple enough. A government than can do no more than what the Constitution allows no matter how noble the cause. A government that can do anything for you can also take things from you according to Jefferson. That is the conservative point of view. Limited government with enumerated powers. If you want government to do more then amend the Constitution instead of letting judges decide this stuff and executives issuing orders. How can any American disagree with that? I would really like to know.

That is the most ridiculous example you could've come up with. Originally Posted by icuminpeace

"with liberty and justice for all"

based on that I'd the guy with one brown sock and one blue sock.


but thats just me






eos

Without some rough equality of opportunity, liberty is meaningless for those who lost the opportunity lottery. One cannot exist without the other. To try to prioritize one over the other is a fool's errand.

"Lost the opportunity lottery." LOL! That's a good one, TTH! You used to be free to make your own opportunities, but now, thanks to people like you, opportunities are apportioned by the government. Yep, that's compassion, all right.

But nice to see you again! Hope you're having a great summer! You realize I predicted Obama to win a second term, don't you?

If you're born as a minority, poor, and to uneducated parents, the odds of you rising above that handicap are very poor. If you're white, born to well off parents with graduate degrees it's pretty damned hard to fuck up your life. If both your parents' IQ is 20 points below average, your IQ is very likely to be quite low. If you're parents' IQ are both above 140, the odds of you being very, very smart (though not as smart as they are with regression to the mean) is good. If you are born with a significant physical or mental handicap, the odds are it will effect your chances in man areas. If not, you dodged a bullet.

If you don't think that our opportunities are predominately controlled by things that are beyond our control, I don't really know what to tell you. Surely even the the most ignorant and foolish among the right wingers understand this fundamental truth.