WARNING

How are viruses not living when they can be killed by uv light and disinfectants? Originally Posted by royamcr

A very good question but if I understood oeb's article, they are saying they can be both depending on definitions one chooses to use.



Way over my head.

Thank you - the word I chose was in relation to a poster. and on-going behavior.

Perseveration is when someone “gets stuck” on a topic or an idea. You may have heard the term in regard to autism , but it can affect others, too. People who perseverate often say the same thing or behave in the same way over and over again. But they can get stuck on their emotions, actions, and thoughts, too.


Including TDS and Trump Hatred. Originally Posted by oeb11

My apologies for thinking just because I encountered a word I had never heard before, it must have been a spelling error. I should have looked it up first.

My apologies for thinking just because I encountered a word I had never heard before, it must have been a spelling error. I should have looked it up first.
Originally Posted by HedonistForever

Thank you - no apology necessary - you were civil, courteous, and appropriate!

Wherein lies the question, "does it know that and act accordingly". Originally Posted by HedonistForever

It's completely random mutations.

Unfavorable mutations will be replaced by favorable mutations by natural selection.

It's just completely random, but random mutations that favor survivability and more offspring will naturally pervade the species.

This is middle school biology.

That's basic evolution, and I'm not even one who "believes" in evolution, but your question about whether a virus knows how to mutate is probably best answered by evolution. In other words, a virus doesn't know how to mutate. It's completely random.

This is middle school biology. Originally Posted by Strokey_McDingDong

You've just dated yourself... they don't teach that stuff now until sophomore year of college...

They're too busy learning personal pronouns.

Thanks oeb, an interesting read but I would be lying if I said I understood it all They seem to be fixed on the definition of alive or not alive, while I'm still pondering whether they are thinking or not thinking, if I do "this" will I survive or will I die and act accordingly. The "is it live" question seems silly to me because if they can change, they are alive. A rock can not change on it's own, so it is not a live.



So please, in your own words, do viruses change their behavior due to what they encounter and re-act chemically or do they have a plan that they can change after a thoughtful process?


I guess I've run into something beyond what I am capable of understanding.

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

HF - you pose a very thoughtful question - and it is perhaps at teh limit of current understanding of Virology.



My personal take - an individual virus is not capable of thought, or independent behavior. a virus is a 'thing' - a strand of dna/rna inside a glycoprotein capsule - that attches by a receptor to a cell , injects its dna/rna - which takes over teh cell processes to replicate million more identical viruses -which destroys the cell as the membrane ruptures and releases the new viruses.

Viruses do change their dna/rna by natural selection - how viruses are selected out for survival according to the body's immune response. this is not a 'thoughtful process' - and viruses have no consciousness.

Thus - no 'plan' to 'change' - changes in viruses happens as natural selection - the process that engineered humans arising from the very early one-called species that created the blueprint for life.

A given - not intending to naysay anyone's religious belief in a higher power.



Food for thought - there are many things in nature we understand poorly as humans. I would agree that an army ant is alive - but likely not capable of independent thought /reasoning.

Yet colonies of army ants display behavior in hunting, colony relocation, and coordination of millions of member - mediated by pheromones - but how this happens is a mystery.

How a great biomass of ants can behave in a 'pseudo-intelligent' manner - I/scientists do not yet understand.

Could a large biomass of viruses coordinate for 'independent thought' - that concept is currently beyond our science.


Perhaps one day we will learn.

Corollary -' magic' - is just science - not understood by the beholder.

Imagine medeival monks confronted with gunpowder, firearms,lasers, and airplanes. How would they react??


for all our achievements - human beings are still fragile creatures limited to a very small biosphere on our planet - and much of space is intractably hostile to our fragile bodies.

And with our limitations physically - also comes a limitation of intellect - we may never understand teh cosmos - as so much is far beyond our reach - due to the limitation of teh constant of speed of light.

Just some additional thoughts to throw out the in one of the best civilized and thought provoking discussions in this forum.

UV or disinfectant inactivated of covid virus. This article is the easiest to understand that I found:

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/es3029473

In simple speak, they damage the molecular structure of the viral nucleotides or capsule rendering it inactive. Complex stuff and seems to be variable.

"Choosing a mutation". Other than man, I suppose no other entity thinks about it...Mother Nature does that for them. Humans have and still try to influence natural (or unnatural) selection, like genetic engineering of crops, but unintended consequences can occur even from simple non-engineered introduction of new species into a biome.

Most mutations are fatal and never get off the ground. Some "bad" mutations can be good. Sickle cell anemia is a mutation in the formation of the hemoglobin molecule that can cause crippling, even fatal, symptoms. However, it confers a degree of resistance to Malaria infection, such that those with the sickle mutation stood a perhaps greater chance of reaching reproductive age in areas where Malaria was prevalent. Again natural selection by Mother Nature.

It's also interesting to discuss viruses in terms of them being a parasite. I used to love parasitology, and a general principle was that it seemed the more highly evolved parasites developed/evolved a symbiotic relationship with their host, in that they don't kill the host, but "live with it", since there is then a better chance of producing multiple offspring transferred to other hosts thereby giving their genome a better chance in nature's lottery. Seems to me (opinion only) that this doesn't apply to most viruses, maybe because they produce millions of "offspring" in a short time and the mechanisms by which the offspring spread are relatively efficient.

Too much, I know. Guess this topic "triggers" me.

sm - #79 - very good, and accurate points, as we understand teh science.



rd1951 - agreed - and you are precisely accurate about the sickle cell trait and malaria - which is still endemic in Africa and other parts of the world . Not common in America - but overseas travelers sometimes bring it home.



Parasite - see 'Venom' - Tom hardy. a dark humor romp about a parasite which arrives on Earth.

You've just dated yourself... they don't teach that stuff now until sophomore year of college...

They're too busy learning personal pronouns. Originally Posted by texassapper

LOL

Some people just have this innate belief in Government and that Government is going to "take care of us"


BTW I am obviously NOT one of those people, but there are plenty of them out there, fortunately they are still a minority here in Texas, but with all the Californians et al moving here I'd hate to bet on how long that will last. Originally Posted by GaGambler

Maybe there was a time when Governments were sincere and on the level, but those days are long gone. The little cartoon clip below really depicts how fucked up things have gotten.

https://youtu.be/qiTqonCJjrk

Can’t believe the stupidity. Get the shot and maybe help stop the next mutation. New stricter CDC bs is garbage but use your brains people. Talk to experts. Your buddy isn’t an expert.

Can’t believe the stupidity. Get the shot and maybe help stop the next mutation. New stricter CDC bs is garbage but use your brains people. Talk to experts. Your buddy isn’t an expert. Originally Posted by Charley3

Neither are you. You’re not in a position to tell others what to do with their healthcare choices. I’ve worked in the HC industry for 40yrs. I know some of the top researchers/Physicians/ surgeons in Pgh. There’s not a consensus on the vaccine, or COVID in general. Just sayin.

Can’t believe the stupidity. Get the shot and maybe help stop the next mutation. New stricter CDC bs is garbage but use your brains people. Talk to experts. Your buddy isn’t an expert. Originally Posted by Charley3

Where is your outrage at china? Jus axeing

Neither are you. You’re not in a position to tell others what to do with their healthcare choices. I’ve worked in the HC industry for 40yrs. I know some of the top researchers/Physicians/ surgeons in Pgh. There’s not a consensus on the vaccine, or COVID in general. Just sayin. Originally Posted by bambino

I don't doubt that for a second.

Neither are you. You’re not in a position to tell others what to do with their healthcare choices. I’ve worked in the HC industry for 40yrs. I know some of the top researchers/Physicians/ surgeons in Pgh. There’s not a consensus on the vaccine, or COVID in general. Just sayin. Originally Posted by bambino

Did I say I was? Read before you respond. And I don’t believe a thing from you.
You spew your internet videos like that is the expert. Or back up Berry like he knows what the hell he’s talking to. That’s scary.
I get my advice from my doctor….face to face. You should do the same and get off the internet.