Provider's Rates: Self worth vs Perceived Value

LD your thread is, in fact, the bees' knees. Thanks for providing such an amazing topic. I haven't replied because I've been busy slowly implementing the thoughts and opinions that would fit in to where I stand in the hobby.

But a few questions before I move on to my comments.




What is the popular definition of a 'nicer location'? Is it limited to the area of town a gentleman has to venture to? 5 star hotels? A private apartment?


How does someone go about assessing their own skills? I give it my all each time, but opinions vary depending on who you ask after a date.


Also, market value: I did a search within a range of criteria, (keeping my own current stats in the middle or null in the cases of hair and eyes.) and I came back with three providers. Only three. As far as rates go I'm already in the middle, so what else besides just the physical traits, do gentlemen consider before deciding if a lady is 'worth' her rate or tries to haggle her down?








My opinion on the negotiation in relation to a lady's needs and the prospect of loosing a chance to possibly maintain a regular.


This advice completely ignores the possibility that they may NEED to make some money.
Almost no businesses can get 100% retail pricing for what they sell all the time.
Check any basic business text and learn about how this kills business.


I value honest opinion and thank you for sharing this. I completely understand where this logic is coming from.


any basic business


This is a business, however I'm not Walmart. I can't price match because it isn't conceivable to draw the lost funds from the next gentleman. Also I'm not part of a multi million dollar company that can afford to let the one person out of thousands that DAY out of 1 STORE to get away with saving a few bucks through said price match.


In addition what I'm selling can't be returned with a receipt or exchanged. I know I'm still wet behind the ears, but I know and have been through enough to know that this is far from being any basic businesses. If you just need a release, I hear good things about those flesh lights.


I get that negotiation is a common businesses practice which is perfectly acceptable. What we're not taking into consideration is the overhead, as it is for me currently. If you were to ask to see me for a half hour at my rate of $120, but you need gas money so you're only going to have $100. The incall I rent is beautifully furnished and not you're typical notell room. The owners know that so they charge $40 for one hour. That leaves me with $80. Or worse, You have a particular outfit, color, accessory, etc. you like a provider to wear that I don't have. It says right in my profile that I will don anything specific and if I don't live up to that, it'll get blasted in a review, so I stop and pick up that neon green dress that you say will drive you wild. That's another $20 invested in our appointment based off the potential chance that you may become a regular. I learned the hard way not to bite that bait every time it's cast, and I think that it's unfortunate that it has been used so frequently as a ploy in negotiations. Especially when, again speaking for myself, when there are clear and easy ways to get the EXACT same discount any old day in my showcase under CURRENT SPECIALS in bold lettering.


I also am guessing that the definition of regular needs to addressed too. What is everyone's definition of a regular? Seeing me once at my newbie bp rate and making an appointment to see me, mentioning my old rate implying you're a “regular” does not make it so. Seeing me twice last year does not make you my regular.


For me, my regular gets priority when it comes to planning my day. We can go for lunch and dinner dates, even the movies ... then go play and not once do I need to check the envelope that you slipped to me. You can text me anytime you like just to chat. When you're away on trips for an extended time, you get detailed referrals from me so she has a heads up on exactly what you like. For me it's not just about the frequency of visits. We have to earn the privilege of being your ATF. If you're my regular, you'll know it because you've earned it.


NEED


I understand that there are ladies who don't need a dime and get a rush from the thought of meeting a mysterious stranger at a secret and discreet, exclusive hotel and ravishing each others bodies for hours on end, pausing long enough for a sip of cognac, dipping cherries into the chocolate pooled in her navel, etc. And at the end of it all, made enough to go on Burberry shopping trip.


I also get that there are even more providers that have careers that they love, and only want to live the lives they deserve.


But, and if I'm wrong on this by all means correct me, I think most ladies have an inherent need once they've decided to enter the hobby. I know that I had steps before reaching this. I did everything that society said to do in order to be successful: Go to school, get good grades, go to college, get better grades, kiss ass, don't make waves and then.... nothing. The universe still flicks you off. Am I the only one?


Go to work and earn 1k a week? I'll be pleased as punch to see 2k by the end of the month. The boss and hours don't overshadow that prospect at all, trust me. (Or ask any other barely paid intern for that matter.)




Sorry that was so long. But I figure one post is better than spamming it with my newbish ramblings.

I know that I had steps before reaching this. I did everything that society said to do in order to be successful: Go to school, get good grades, go to college, get better grades, kiss ass, don't make waves and then.... nothing. The universe still flicks you off. Am I the only one?

Go to work and earn 1k a week? I'll be pleased as punch to see 2k by the end of the month. The boss and hours don't overshadow that prospect at all, trust me. (Or ask any other barely paid intern for that matter.) Originally Posted by Glynette

Wow, that was long, but you have a good head on your shoulders and it shows. You seem to be doing everything a "good" way even if there might not be a "right" way.

The universe, culture and society do flick you off and no, by no means, you are not the only one.

2K take home is so so, and hard to live on by yourself. On 1K a week I bought a house here in Austin several years ago and did OK. I was lucky (both timing and location) and have been luckier since then, but things are harder since 2008 and especially if you are young, female and minority (the statistics definitely show it right or wrong, believe it or not). I don't have any hard and fast answers for you on all this, but am hoping to visit have lunch or dinner and share thoughts.

The one thing statistics do show is that on average, in the long run the biggest differentiator between higher earning and lower earnings over a life time is education. You've done that now all you need is to be prepared and have some luck and then work hard. That is the way it usually goes. Good luck and kisses. Maybe one of these days when I zip down to Houston I'll be lucky enough to asses your skills

Being 10 or 20 bucks short is not a big deal to me. More than that is pushing it, and at 50 I may decline to see you again. I've noticed that once a guy shorts you or negotiates to a lower rate, every time you see him that will be your rate, mostly because that's all he's willing to give. And you are correct, this business we're in is not a commodity, its a luxury. Originally Posted by Luxury Daphne

I would never see a lady without access to enough cash to tip nicely and make up any misunderstanding on the rate, but that is just me. My first date at home I was $20 short and it was noticed just before driving off and mentioned. I had misread the reviews and showcase, but made it right immediately. Anyone who plays games here IMHO is a jerk and deserves to be declined and outed.

LD your thread is, in fact, the bees' knees. Thanks for providing such an amazing topic. I haven't replied because I've been busy slowly implementing the thoughts and opinions that would fit in to where I stand in the hobby.

But a few questions before I move on to my comments.




What is the popular definition of a 'nicer location'? Is it limited to the area of town a gentleman has to venture to? 5 star hotels? A private apartment?


How does someone go about assessing their own skills? I give it my all each time, but opinions vary depending on who you ask after a date.


Also, market value: I did a search within a range of criteria, (keeping my own current stats in the middle or null in the cases of hair and eyes.) and I came back with three providers. Only three. As far as rates go I'm already in the middle, so what else besides just the physical traits, do gentlemen consider before deciding if a lady is 'worth' her rate or tries to haggle her down?








My opinion on the negotiation in relation to a lady's needs and the prospect of loosing a chance to possibly maintain a regular.


This advice completely ignores the possibility that they may NEED to make some money.
Almost no businesses can get 100% retail pricing for what they sell all the time.
Check any basic business text and learn about how this kills business.


I value honest opinion and thank you for sharing this. I completely understand where this logic is coming from.


any basic business


This is a business, however I'm not Walmart. I can't price match because it isn't conceivable to draw the lost funds from the next gentleman. Also I'm not part of a multi million dollar company that can afford to let the one person out of thousands that DAY out of 1 STORE to get away with saving a few bucks through said price match.


In addition what I'm selling can't be returned with a receipt or exchanged. I know I'm still wet behind the ears, but I know and have been through enough to know that this is far from being any basic businesses. If you just need a release, I hear good things about those flesh lights.


I get that negotiation is a common businesses practice which is perfectly acceptable. What we're not taking into consideration is the overhead, as it is for me currently. If you were to ask to see me for a half hour at my rate of $120, but you need gas money so you're only going to have $100. The incall I rent is beautifully furnished and not you're typical notell room. The owners know that so they charge $40 for one hour. That leaves me with $80. Or worse, You have a particular outfit, color, accessory, etc. you like a provider to wear that I don't have. It says right in my profile that I will don anything specific and if I don't live up to that, it'll get blasted in a review, so I stop and pick up that neon green dress that you say will drive you wild. That's another $20 invested in our appointment based off the potential chance that you may become a regular. I learned the hard way not to bite that bait every time it's cast, and I think that it's unfortunate that it has been used so frequently as a ploy in negotiations. Especially when, again speaking for myself, when there are clear and easy ways to get the EXACT same discount any old day in my showcase under CURRENT SPECIALS in bold lettering.


I also am guessing that the definition of regular needs to addressed too. What is everyone's definition of a regular? Seeing me once at my newbie bp rate and making an appointment to see me, mentioning my old rate implying you're a “regular” does not make it so. Seeing me twice last year does not make you my regular.


For me, my regular gets priority when it comes to planning my day. We can go for lunch and dinner dates, even the movies ... then go play and not once do I need to check the envelope that you slipped to me. You can text me anytime you like just to chat. When you're away on trips for an extended time, you get detailed referrals from me so she has a heads up on exactly what you like. For me it's not just about the frequency of visits. We have to earn the privilege of being your ATF. If you're my regular, you'll know it because you've earned it.


NEED


I understand that there are ladies who don't need a dime and get a rush from the thought of meeting a mysterious stranger at a secret and discreet, exclusive hotel and ravishing each others bodies for hours on end, pausing long enough for a sip of cognac, dipping cherries into the chocolate pooled in her navel, etc. And at the end of it all, made enough to go on Burberry shopping trip.


I also get that there are even more providers that have careers that they love, and only want to live the lives they deserve.


But, and if I'm wrong on this by all means correct me, I think most ladies have an inherent need once they've decided to enter the hobby. I know that I had steps before reaching this. I did everything that society said to do in order to be successful: Go to school, get good grades, go to college, get better grades, kiss ass, don't make waves and then.... nothing. The universe still flicks you off. Am I the only one?


Go to work and earn 1k a week? I'll be pleased as punch to see 2k by the end of the month. The boss and hours don't overshadow that prospect at all, trust me. (Or ask any other barely paid intern for that matter.)




Sorry that was so long. But I figure one post is better than spamming it with my newbish ramblings. Originally Posted by Glynette

Glynette, although the post was long it sets the tone for anyone that might be considering seeing you. Providers and hobbyists have different motivations for being in the hobby, but in the end providers want to make money and hobbyists want certain experiences. I am in a very similar situation to you. I have a regular job that I love, but barely pays the bills, and in a service industry for supplemental income as well. While my side job is not exactly the same, and I don't pretend to know all the challenges that you girls face, a lot of the same pricing/marketing/lifestyle principles apply. At first I was concerned that I wouldn't have enough clients, so I took on clients too cheaply and took on too many clients. Over the course of time, I gradually raised my rates and limited my cliental. Now I only see people that I'm excited about working with, and that respect me. Those people never short me, but it took me a lot of trial and error, failed marketing plans, and listening to my clients to figure out what was important to them and how to get the good ones to stay regulars. Some of my higher paying clients were assholes, and I found they weren't worth the aggravation and found ways to work them out of my schedule once I was secure with the money I was making. Rarely, but occasionally I will reduce my rates to work with someone that I enjoy working with that may not have the financial wherewith-all to continue seeing me as regularly, but this always comes from my end.
In the end there is only one Glynette, Kammye, Luxury Daphne, Yummy Marie etc. There are only so many hours in your days, so what the market bears for someone who looks similar is irrelevant because they won't be the same experience (and you give a pretty good experience)

Glynette, although the post was long it sets the tone for anyone that might be considering seeing you. Providers and hobbyists have different motivations for being in the hobby, but in the end providers want to make money and hobbyists want certain experiences. I am in a very similar situation to you. I have a regular job that I love, but barely pays the bills, and in a service industry for supplemental income as well. While my side job is not exactly the same, and I don't pretend to know all the challenges that you girls face, a lot of the same pricing/marketing/lifestyle principles apply. At first I was concerned that I wouldn't have enough clients, so I took on clients too cheaply and took on too many clients. Over the course of time, I gradually raised my rates and limited my cliental. Now I only see people that I'm excited about working with, and that respect me. Those people never short me, but it took me a lot of trial and error, failed marketing plans, and listening to my clients to figure out what was important to them and how to get the good ones to stay regulars. Some of my higher paying clients were assholes, and I found they weren't worth the aggravation and found ways to work them out of my schedule once I was secure with the money I was making. Rarely, but occasionally I will reduce my rates to work with someone that I enjoy working with that may not have the financial wherewith-all to continue seeing me as regularly, but this always comes from my end.
In the end there is only one Glynette, Kammye, Luxury Daphne, Yummy Marie etc. There are only so many hours in your days, so what the market bears for someone who looks similar is irrelevant because they won't be the same experience (and you give a pretty good experience) Originally Posted by frankskywalker

Very compassionate, thoughtful and insightful post frank, thanks. I too work in a profession that deals with these types of challenges, though it has significant differences. Now I am a regular employee, but have been independent. The goal/challenge there is to try to book 2000 hours a year. It is different in that we tend to work 8-10 hours a day for engagements of weeks or months, but can have weeks or months in between engagements. For anything longer than a week engagement, I HAVE to negotiate a discount. Sometimes up to 20 or 25%.

I also, like providers, have to spend significant time marketing and selling when I'm independent and I don't get paid for that. Most of us hobbiests don't take that time into account in the ladies fees, nor do we probably think about the time spent for hygeine, travel, etc on every single meeting whether it is 30 minutes or overnight.

OTOH, there is incredible inconsistency in fee differences between incall, outcall, 30, 60 or longer sessions not to mention discrepancies in services (and little clarity) like GFE, PSE, fetishes and up sells. It is confusing for both sides and it seems mostly not well thought through by most providers not to mention the fact that chemistry and the feeling of the moment play a huge part in how the session goes a lot of the time. Amazing it works as well as it does most of the time. I guess that is a testament to how strong the sex and financial drives are in all os us! LOL

Any ladies who would like to get a drink, hang out and discuss this sometime, just PM me (was that just a hobbiest threAD? Rotflmao)

Great post, Glynette!

I'm loving the candid and respectful discourse here with Glynette, atx, and Frank...all very thought-provoking. You were all able to capture the many factors and facets of the business side of things. After all, this is a business...and a very personal one, which can make it hard to discuss tactfully. Kudos to you all. LD, thanks for this thread. I'm glad to see it taking a friendly turn which may educate both providers and clients. We can make better, more informed business decisions as a result :-)

If I were a provider I would charge as much as I possibly could.

The only acronym you would ever see from me would be "ymmv" cause that's exactly how it is.

I would probably never post on an shmb other than an ad.

And you are correct, this business we're in is not a commodity, its a luxury. Originally Posted by Luxury Daphne

This is the defining quote of the whole thread.

If I were a provider I would charge as much as I possibly could.

The only acronym you would ever see from me would be "ymmv" cause that's exactly how it is.

I would probably never post on an shmb other than an ad. Originally Posted by Eccie Addict

The best clients come from three places. Ads on Eros and P411 not here, reviews on TER, and lurkers from posts on here and other message boards. Ads on this site, at least for me, was not the best venue to advertise on except when traveling.

I forget who said it, but she's right when she said that a portion of the potential clientel (sp) don't realize there is signifigant overhead associated with this business and marketing time.

Thank you, LD, for this wonderful topic. It's always nice to start an open, honest dialogue about things that truly matter to a community. I found the article you linked to be valuable in my real life venture, as well as this demimonde one. I think this page (6) is the real winner of the thread. Glynette, I'm always impressed by your posts, I wish you would post more. We need more thoughtful discourse, and you always put a tremendous amount of thought into everything you have to say.
In the end, I think what we're all looking for (on both sides of the hobby) is respect. That can mean different things to different people, of course. People providing a service, no matter what that service might be, wish to be respected for the amount of time, energy, and talent they put into that service. People contracting a service hope that the service provider will respect their budget. Many years ago, upselling was a problem for hobbyists, but that seems to have been eradicated over the years for the most part, so the respect exchange has been working so far.
My main concern as far as those who wish to negotiate a lower rate is that if they cannot afford to see a particular lady at her posted rate, then perhaps their priorities might be out of whack. The hobby can become an addiction rather easily. I never want anyone to suffer financially because they had to feed that need, and it would devastate me to know that I played any part in that - I would rather forgo the business than to put anyone in a bind. I know that if they are that hard up they will find some way to get their fix, but I don't want to be involved in any abject self-destructive behavior. This is a luxury service, NOT a need. As with any true hobby, if you cannot afford to play, you may wish to consider another pastime.

Are you trying to drive fucktards back to the Lionel train shops?

Are you trying to drive fucktards back to the Lionel train shops? Originally Posted by pyramider

Maybe... Trains ARE pretty cool.

And "respect" or lack thereof is one of the reasons I would not post on an shmb if I were a provider.

Not that I don't enjoy it as a member of this site but I'm sure I wouldn't if I were on the other side of the fence.



Rhino though I don't agree with you, you do seem to put a lot of thought into your posts. I have a question for you.

Will/Have you see(n) a provider that has a listed rate over 200 per hour? If so are you ever willing to pay them the rate they have listed?

I am going to do something I seldom do.......write clearly.

I will not bargain/negotiate/beg for a reduced rate from a provider.......it has nothing to do with her math skills (stupid 30min rates vs 2hr rates).......it has nothing to do with determining whether she gives a BBBJ or MSOG.......it has everything to do with the fact that it is her body (not some inanimate object or 3rd person service) and I will not be responsible for determining a persons physical self worth......ijs

I am going to do something I seldom do.......write clearly. Originally Posted by dearhunter

You didn't.

I will not bargain/negotiate/beg for a reduced rate from a provider.......it has nothing to do with her math skills (stupid 30min rates vs 2hr rates).......it has nothing to do with determining whether she gives a BBBJ or MSOG.......it has everything to do with the fact that it is her body (not some inanimate object or 3rd person service) and I will not be responsible for determining a persons physical self worth......ijs Originally Posted by dearhunter

Nobody can determine a person's physical self worth. It's an indeterminate quantity.