Illegal immigration...your thoughts

I just heard on the radio today about some group who was upset over Travis county having the highest deportation rate on undocumented workers even though they didn't have criminal records.

I guess it slipped past their radar that the very fact of coming here *illegally* makes them a criminal?

[quote=Spacemtn;477970]Glockaffion,
So far, you have posted 4 times and the 2 that I have read have been patently offensive. I know you are new here, but we "encourage" our members to be civil to one another. Sixxbach has already indicated this to you.
If you plan on staying in our community for very long, I would advise that you adopt a different tone in your posts. Everyone's welcome to post if it is relevant to the topic, but when it has nothing to do with the topic and is only to irritate others, then the Moderator staff must act.

Had no idea Robert Gibbs was an eccie moderator.

Obama is doing a great job on this issue and many others! this country is Heaven for illegal immigrants and their tons of children born&braught here all the benefits they recieve as I mentioned in an earlier post, compared to mexico Where not even Primary school is free! ; It is litterally a Demographic Bomb of population and costs for their benefits, goodbye social security & responsibility; hello deficits!

Despite all this i'm a Huge 'traditional' Democratic supporter and $Donator and support Obama




"Damn what the hell is up with Magic Johson? that fools' ballin"

Nothing like an economic downturn and antiquated drug laws to make us divisive and narrow of mind.

To onehitwonder I wish you all the best but the SC management decided what demographic to cater to and they set the ground rules for employment. It is the profit motive, which we all salute, that took your job away. Do you have a beef - yes, do you have a case - I don't know.

I have always wondered what the real cost/benefit of illegals gives or takes from our country but polls and studies always seem skewed and political. Would appreciate any leads on real fact studies. All my contacts with illegals have been rewarding and have even made trips into rural Mexico to visit their families, makes it a little different when you see the reason some of these Illegals risk their lives to come earn some money and lift themselves from poverty.

Again...............

[quote=onehitwonder;486576]

. And I get that it can only help to speak other languages but to be almost forced into it in my hometown so I can feed my family is a little much to take.

And other issue with the assistance is tough to "sit through" too. I need help and can't get it. I can't help feeling its because someone who didn't need it or deserved it, abused it. What about Ms minimum wage over here?


I am not above helping others no matter race creed color etc

I can't help feeling it's because someone WHO IS NOT FROM HERE or didn't truly need it or deserved it ABUSED it.

Ugh! I'm over it........

''Why is this country the only one in the world which extends automatic citizenship to anyone born here? No other country permits this pernicous practice of anchor babies."
I do not know about children born in other countries to mothers in those countries illegally but I DO know that MANY nations extend citizenship to the children born there. Maybe, most. In fact, they extend citizenship to the children of those children....For example, my father was born in Argentina, lived there only 6 months or so. I am allowed to have Argentinean citizenship.

Nuglet,
You make some valid points but here's the thing. We are no longer the country we were 200 years ago. 200 years ago we were not over a trillion dollars in debt, (our founding fathers actually had this crazy notion of balancing the budget), and the government for the most part let the people sort things out themselves, the government simply wasn't near as intrusive as they are today. The last thing our founding fathers would have sought to do was to sue a colony in court because the people living in that colony wanted to pass a law of one kind or another. So irregardless of how our country started or what it's people did 200 years ago, we have to deal with the reality of today. By allowing millions upon millions of people to flee their countries in Mexico and Central America, we are basically opening a pressure valve which ensures that the leaders of those countries get a free ride. A free ride to continue being corrupt, to continue to not pay their people fair wages and to continue to oppress them. Since anyone that doesn't like that simply packs up and leaves and comes to the USA, no real change takes place in those countries. No serious pressure or opposition builds from the people themselves to change their government and their living conditions. It's simply easier to leave and come to the USA. I would venture to say we're not really helping out those countries in the long run. Then there's the issue within our country.
The reason immigration worked for so long in this country is because of the attitude and willingness of the immigrants to assimilate themselves into our society. Most adopted our culture, at least outwardly. For example...Italians or Germans that came here made SURE they're children learned English. They WANTED them to grow up as Americans. That didn't mean they were not proud of their heritage, it didn't mean they didn't keep some traditions in their homes or celebrate their holidays. When it came right down to it though, they identified themselves as Americans. They didn't demand that we have Italian or German speaking teachers in our schools to teach their kids in that language. They didn't sue to try to change our culture and make us fit theirs. This is why there is a growing backlash in our country against illegal immigrants. Many of today's immigrants want to take what the USA has to offer in terms of opportunities and benefits but they don't want to assimilate themselves. Case in point. There is a huge Nigerian population in Houston, Texas. Yet, when you call a business in Houston, you're not prompted to push 1 to hear the options in Nigerian, 2 to hear the options in Chinese and 3 to hear the options in Arabic. No, the ONLY option you're forced to choose from and the ONLY language you're forced to listen to is Spanish. How is that fair to all the other immigrants that come to our country? How does that make THEM feel that we are constantly making exceptions for Spanish speaking illegal immigrants but not for anyone else? Maybe we should hold ALL immigrants to the same standard. Learn our language, understand our culture, work, pay TAXES and I think you will find that you'll be welcomed with open arms.
Just some thoughts.

This is why there is a growing backlash in our country against illegal immigrants. I am assuming you mean illegal mexican immigrants...

Many of today's immigrants want to take what the USA has to offer in terms of opportunities and benefits but they don't want to assimilate themselves. Once again, I am assuming you are talking about Mexican immigrants. How do you know that for a fact? Do you work with any of them or educate them? I would beg to differ on the generality of your statement.

Case in point. There is a huge Nigerian population in Houston, Texas. Yet, when you call a business in Houston, you're not prompted to push 1 to hear the options in Nigerian, 2 to hear the options in Chinese and 3 to hear the options in Arabic. No, the ONLY option you're forced to choose from and the ONLY language you're forced to listen to is Spanish. How is that fair to all the other immigrants that come to our country?

I really think its the fact they we share a border with Mexico is why the number of immigrants is so high and the US tends to cater to that. I would be willing to bet though it can never be proven, that if France shared a border with us with the corruption and mass killings, they would migrate north as well.


How does that make THEM feel that we are constantly making exceptions for Spanish speaking illegal immigrants but not for anyone else? Maybe we should hold ALL immigrants to the same standard. Learn our language, understand our culture, work, pay TAXES and I think you will find that you'll be welcomed with open arms.
Just some thoughts. Originally Posted by mj2749

I totally agree that they should learn our language, no doubt. They do work and pay taxes. It's a shame that some of the laziest people I know were born in the United States. sixx

Sixx,

I wasn't just talking about Mexican illegal immigrants. However it does seem that many of the immigrants from the Central America and Mexico make less of an effort to assimilate than did immigrants in the past.
As far as if I've worked with them or taught them? Well let's just say my career prior to the one I have now brought me in daily contact with them. Meaning I've been to their homes, I've dealt with the aftermath of some of the situations they were involved in, sometimes as victims and sometimes as suspects. I'm no longer in that career field lest anyone start worrying about me being on this site.
I've also had to deal with the consequences of illegals in our school system. When they decided to re-district one summer while my son was in 5th grade, I took him to his "new" school to enroll him. This new school was in Round Rock. The first thing I noticed when I entered the Admin office was that not a single parent in the office was speaking English. They were all addressing the staff in Spanish and vice versa. When I took my son to his classroom, I noticed that the teacher was addressing the kids in Spanish. When she took a break to welcome my son, she agreed to speak to me outside. When I asked her why she was addressing the kids in Spanish she stated that 75% of her class were non English speaking students but that she would instruct in both languages. She further stated this was necessary because most of the non Spanish speaking students had failed the previous years TAKS test and in order to make sure they passed this year they were put in a bi-lingual classroom. Other countries in Europe and such do teach other languages. Having grown up in Germany and attended German schools until the 7th grade I can speak from first hand experience that from the time I enrolled in German Kindergarten until I left Germany at age 13, no one made special accommodations for me because German was not my first language. All instruction was in German and you had to "swim or sink" so to speak. One period a day from 4th grade until 8th grade was devoted to learning English. Our students in the U.S. currently get the same option. Spanish is available for them to take as an elective if they have an interest in learning the language as is French, German and other languages.
I have many Mexican-American friends, co-workers etc. Many of them feel the same as I do about illegal immigration. I'd have to disagree with you about illegals paying taxes. Although it's true that like everyone else, every time they make a purchase they are paying our State sales tax. I think though that studies have proven time and again that most do NOT file Federal Income tax returns and do NOT pay their federal taxes. Most of them do NOT have taxes withheld by their employers because they work for "cash under the table" so to speak.
I don't feel I'm racist and I hope the points I make are taken for what they are, open debate on the issue, that's all. I love traveling in Mexico, I like many things about the Mexican people, their culture, food, etc....That doesn't change the fact that our country is in the middle of a deep economic crisis, that most of the money that illegals make does NOT remain in the USA, it's shipped back home to Mexico, therefor doing little to help our economy. Income from illegals is the 3rd largest source of income for the Mexican economy after Drug money and Oil. These issues have to be addressed in an open and realistic way by our government.

I apologize for the error above. I wrote that:"she stated that 75% of her class were non English speaking students but that she would instruct in both languages. She further stated this was necessary because most of the non Spanish speaking students had failed the previous years TAKS test and in order to make sure they passed this year they were put in a bi-lingual classroom." Of course the sentence should have read non English speaking students in relation to the TAKS test. Sorry I didn't catch that on my proof read.

With so much material to write, where do I start:

Arizona Law:
US Citizen of Hispanic decent forgets his wallet with his driver's license. Drives through a Stop sign. Gets pulled over (for a valid reason, no racial profiling here). Cop asks for license and registration. Driver states he forgot his license at home. Cop asks for citizenship status. Driver states he's a US citizen. Cop asks for proof. Driver doesn't carry his birth certificate with him (like 99.99% of the rest of the population). Cop pulls driver out of car, reads him his rights, handcuffs him, and takes him in.

White driver, same scenario. No questions asked about proof of citizenship and goes home on the spot with a ticket.

Now you tell me what's wrong with this picture? If the white driver is taken in just like the Hispanic driver, then we're all equal. But I'll bet my year's salary (six-digits) that won't happen.

On paying taxes and use of certain services.

Believe it or not, illegal immigrants do pay taxes. It's called sales tax, property tax, gas tax, etc. Some that get paid with payroll checks also have taxes withheld for Federal, FICA, etc. Therefore, I'd like to know what's the complaining about when it comes to providing education to their children. I fully understand they use the ER as the PCP, which is absolutely wrong, but the Federal government could cover some of these costs with the unclaimed federal taxes.

Is illegal immigration right? Absolutely not, hence it's called illegal immigration, but just like the war on drugs, instead of fixing the problem, we attack the consequence of the problem. The problem is the market for jobs for illegals. Heavily fine the employers, enforce E-Verify, and you'll see how they stop coming. But since no one on both sides of the aisle are interested in fixing the problem, because their financial backers benefit from the problem, they don't care. McCain is such a joke enforcing the Arizona Law now, and he still gets the Republican primary, so you see, it all works out to the benefit of the ruling class (Republicans also have their elite).

So that's my take on illegal immigration.
thehobbydude.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/the-e...gration-policy

The cop has to have reasonable suspicion besides race itself. So taking your scenario, cop stops Hispanic driver who does not have his driver's license. First off, in Austin, that is an arrestable offense. It's not usually enforced unless there's other circumstances involved but you can be arrested for not being able to prove who you are while operating a motor vehicle. So being that the law specifically says that the officer has to have reasonable suspicion about the person's immigration status besides race itself, that means the officer would most likely see how well the driver speaks English, does he have any papers in the car which could help show he's a citizen etc etc. Only then can he take the person into custody. I will say that on a fairly regular basis, people that can't prove their identity whatever race they are, are taken to the police station for identification. Here's my take. People of all races have to show ID in the USA all the time. Many times I go into a store to make a purchase with a credit or debit card and I'm asked to show my ID. Many times I'm stopped by the Police or I go through the checkpoint at the airport or a dozen other circumstances where I'm asked to show proof of who I am. I'm not offended by this. I understand it's the law or that it's done for security purposes. When I enter another country, I always have to prove what my citizen status is. As far as taxes, like I mentioned in the post above, illegals certainly do pay a state sales tax, gasoline tax and things like that. But it's undisputed fact that most do not file federal income taxes and that much of the money they earn is sent to Mexico. If this were not the case then it would not be Mexico's 3rd largest source of income. So Mexico is benefiting while our U.S. Treasury is not.
Personally, I'm for instituting a fair and efficient guest worker visa program. People that can demonstrate that they have a job opportunity in the USA are given a fast track visa after a background check on them is done. They are then issued an ID card, a visa and with this they should have the right to work in the USA, have taxes withheld from their checks etc. This does several things. It ensures that the people that do come here have a job lined up. It ensures that we KNOW who's in the country. In this post 9/11 world, we simply can't afford from a security checkpoint to not know who we're allowing into our country. It's fair to the workers, it's fair to the U.S. citizens, and it's safe for our country.

mj2749 - I agree with you that money going to Latin America in general has turned to be if not the top export for those countries, at least categorized in the top 3, and that's funding a good percentage of those countries GDP. Now, how does that impact the US economy? Let's look at some numbers - If Mexican immigrants send $25B to Mexico every year ($18B in 2005, according to a 2007 study), and the US GDP is $14.3T, that's 0.17% of the US GDP. So their impact to the US economy should be negligible. Of course, people like to throw big numbers to cause and impact, but everything is relative.

thehobbydude

Here is report from a study on non native Hispanic immigrants in Nevada, another perspective.

http://www.planevada.org/index.php?o...104&Itemid=420