I think everyone needs to have a glass of wine and chill out before posting on this thread. Originally Posted by Nicole PrestonOkay, just had two bottles with friends at a Venezuelan restaurant. Hey PWI!!!
- Guest083011
- 02-05-2010, 06:59 PM
- jessejames
- 02-05-2010, 09:25 PM
you have good taste...
- atlcomedy
- 02-05-2010, 09:28 PM
- jessejames
- 02-05-2010, 09:31 PM
had two glasses of two angels cab. $40 a bottle and worth it.
- Guest083011
- 02-05-2010, 09:33 PM
PWI is better than DWI/DUIDisclaimer: The friends drove. I haven't been working for six hours or so. My co-workers would debate the "working" part, period.
answering work emails while intoxicated? dedending on the circumstances, maybe about as bad as DWI..... Originally Posted by atlcomedy
I was the designated drunk. 
- rekcaSxT
- 02-05-2010, 11:03 PM
CharlesTudor pm'd me and asked me to talk a little here about white wine.
The thing about white grapes is that there are just as many as there are red grapes. But you wouldn't know by walking into most grocery stores or liquors stores, if you go by that you would think there were only about half a dozen white grapes at most.
(Lets start with those usual suspects, I will do a "new world" and "old world" comparison)
Chardonnay: we ALL know this usual suspect.
-Take Kendall Jackson for example, most cali chards until recently were in this style. LOTS of OAK, and the wine goes through (dont let this trip you up) Malolactic Fermentation. This is where the malic acid convert to lactic acid (Think Milk). These wines are often referred to as being "Buttery". While Malolactic is desired in most red wine, it is not that popular in white wine, except in a lot of American Chardonnay. (California and American wine drinkers are moving away from this style slowly.) Chardonnays in this style are not typically suited for wine pairing (IMHO).
-Another style of Chardonnay is the French White Burgundy. These are almost always completely un-oaked, and NEVER go through Malolactic Fermentation. Do not worry about brands with French wine too much, if they government allows the label to say Burgundy (or any other AOC) it is fit to drink, and you should be able to find good white Burgundy for less than $30 easily.
Sauvingon Blanc:
-In the US and other places in the world Sauv Blanc takes more of a citrus characteristic. Like grapefruit, and some peachiness at times. Marlboro New Zealand is a great place to find affordable Sauv Blanc. Thes pair very well with asian food, seafood, and medium spicy food.
-In the old world (namely Loire Valley and Bordeaux France) the Sauv Blanc will be more minerally. The fruit is much less evident and the flavors are more "flinty". If you are ever at a wine shop and you hear a wine geek refer to a white wine from these areas as smelling like "cat urine on a gooseberry" don't let that phase you. It is a desired thing!
Pinot Grigio:
-New world PG is VERY apply, and medium sweet. It is a pretty simple wine, nothing too intriuguing really, but nothing wrong with them either.
-Italy is the home to the PG grape. Honestly the old world and new world PG are very similar. The fruit might be a little less evident and not as sweet, but most PG you see if meant for the American drinker. (if you like Pinot Grigio and want to try something similar that is a little classier look for a Falanghina, it is a very very fine alternative to Pinot Grigio.)
Riesling:
With this one I am going a little off format. I could post a picture of the German wine Pyramid here, but you all probably wouldn't care to see that. If you are buying a NEW WORLD Riesling, expect it to be SWEET unless the label says otherwise. German Rieslings can be very dry to VERY sweet. If you like desert wine a German Eiswein is a Riesling made from grapes that froze on the vine. If you like Dry look for German "Erstes Gewaches" or "First Growths" they are almost all dry. German Rieslings marked Qualitatswein BearenAuslese <QBA> are allowed to sweeten the wine with unfermented grape juice. The Qualitatswein Mit Pradikat <QMP> (meaning With Atribute) can not ad that juice. These are picked from the vine based on sugar level. Starting with Kabinet (least sugar) to Spatlese (Late Harvest) Auslese (later harvest) Baeren Auslese (even more sugar) etc.... ad nauseum. (the erstes Gewaches will use the Pradikat or Atribute to tell you the beginning sugar amounts, but these have been fermented DRY so do not confuse them with the Spatlese or Auslese QMPs)
They also grow Rielsing in the Alsace of France, these are ALL dry.
You will find many dry and sweet Rieslings from the US and Germany that are under $30. Look to Washington for great ones like Bonny Doon.
-------------------
Fun Whites.
Here are some white wines/grapes you may never have heard of. Again you will find these for less than $30 easily.
Viura:
This is a Spanish grape that has been exciting me lately. I have had it as a single varietal and in blends. This is a nice dry wine that goes GREAT with shellfish. Think Seafood Paella.
Albarino:
Paella makes me think of Albarino it is also Spanish. This is an "Off-Dry" (winespeak for not sweet, not dry) white that is a great transition for people from sweet to dry. I always think shellfish with this one.
Vinho Verde:
Portugese version of Albarino. Albarino is the grape used in this wine actually. The Verde refers to the fact that the wine is young and fresh and should be enjoyed that way. Drink Vinho Verde now, do not try to age it.
Falanghina I mentioned earlier.
Chenin Blanc: Called Steen in S. Africa, sometimes Vouvray in the Loire Valley, and Chenin Blanc everywhere in the new world, it is a light bodied white with a lot of flavor. Peaches and Pear are very evident in the flavors. The Vouvrays will be sweeter typically.
Gewurtstraminer: A German grape from the Traminer family (huge grape family that MANY other grapes are related to). The German ones will be sweet, the Alsace ones will be dry. Again the new world ones will say sweet or dry typically. The flavors will be similar to Riesling, but the nose is VERY perfumy. I always joke that they smell like my grandma's purse.
Muscadelle and Picpoul are other effervescent whites from France that are dry and are very nice and can be inexpensive.
-----------------
Rose Wine
White Zinfandel was made by mistake. If you go into a wine or liquor store and ask for Zinfandel, you will be shown the Red Wine section. Real Zinfandel is a deep bold Red Wine.
The color of red wine comes from the skins of the red grapes. So when the juice is only allowed contact with the skins for a short period of time you get pink or Rose wine.
Rose wine will range from very dry to sweet. Most old world Roses are dry.
---------------------
Desert Wine. I thought I would talk just a bit about desert wine.
Moscato:
You will see Moscato in many forms. Martini and Rossi Asti (aka Asti Spumanti) is a sweet sparkling wine made from the Moscato grape. A Moscato d'Asti, is a Moscato from the Asti region of Italy.
Moscatos will almost always be sweet. Muscadelle and other wines that start with MUSCA may not be sweet. If you are looking for a sweet Moscato the best bet is to stick with the d'Asti.
I talked about Eiswein. Also look at Trocken Baeren Auslese for really sweet wines.
Tokaji is Hungarian desert wine. It is very sweet and syrupy.
Sauternes is a desert wine made in Bordeaux from Sauvingon Blanc. What happens is the grapes on the vine get a mold on them that is called Noble Rot, from Botrytis. This concentrates the sugar in the wine. You can find some Sauternes for less than $30 but I don't reccomend them. The best Sauternes are very pricey.
Vin Santo is an Italian desert wine. These are some of the finest desert wines on the planet. I love Vin Santo.
Port Wine. This will be hard not to go off on several paragraphs, I will try to give just the basics.
Port is red wine that is allowed to ferment for half the time of dry wine, so only half the sugar is converted to alcohol. The fermentation is stopped by added Neutral Grape Spirit (unaged brandy) this increases the alcohol content to 20%, but the wine is still sweet.
Port aged in smaller oak barrels or "Pipes" have a more brick or "Tawny" color and are called Tawny's. The flavors will be toffee, nuts, caramel, brown sugar etc...
The ones aged in larger oak barrels or "Barriques" will be "Ruby" in color, and are called Ruby's. These have flavors of red fruits, berries, plums etc...
You should be able to find great drinkable port for under $30. Port is practically indestructable. You can keep a bottle of port open for a month or more and it will still taste great. The fortification by brandy prevents the deterioration that tables wines have after a day.
---------------
I hope this helped for the White Wine lovers, and the Rose and Desert Wine drinkers.
Don't let wine intimidate you. Get out there and buy a bottle and start learning the way I did. By drinking it!
The thing about white grapes is that there are just as many as there are red grapes. But you wouldn't know by walking into most grocery stores or liquors stores, if you go by that you would think there were only about half a dozen white grapes at most.
(Lets start with those usual suspects, I will do a "new world" and "old world" comparison)
Chardonnay: we ALL know this usual suspect.
-Take Kendall Jackson for example, most cali chards until recently were in this style. LOTS of OAK, and the wine goes through (dont let this trip you up) Malolactic Fermentation. This is where the malic acid convert to lactic acid (Think Milk). These wines are often referred to as being "Buttery". While Malolactic is desired in most red wine, it is not that popular in white wine, except in a lot of American Chardonnay. (California and American wine drinkers are moving away from this style slowly.) Chardonnays in this style are not typically suited for wine pairing (IMHO).
-Another style of Chardonnay is the French White Burgundy. These are almost always completely un-oaked, and NEVER go through Malolactic Fermentation. Do not worry about brands with French wine too much, if they government allows the label to say Burgundy (or any other AOC) it is fit to drink, and you should be able to find good white Burgundy for less than $30 easily.
Sauvingon Blanc:
-In the US and other places in the world Sauv Blanc takes more of a citrus characteristic. Like grapefruit, and some peachiness at times. Marlboro New Zealand is a great place to find affordable Sauv Blanc. Thes pair very well with asian food, seafood, and medium spicy food.
-In the old world (namely Loire Valley and Bordeaux France) the Sauv Blanc will be more minerally. The fruit is much less evident and the flavors are more "flinty". If you are ever at a wine shop and you hear a wine geek refer to a white wine from these areas as smelling like "cat urine on a gooseberry" don't let that phase you. It is a desired thing!
Pinot Grigio:
-New world PG is VERY apply, and medium sweet. It is a pretty simple wine, nothing too intriuguing really, but nothing wrong with them either.
-Italy is the home to the PG grape. Honestly the old world and new world PG are very similar. The fruit might be a little less evident and not as sweet, but most PG you see if meant for the American drinker. (if you like Pinot Grigio and want to try something similar that is a little classier look for a Falanghina, it is a very very fine alternative to Pinot Grigio.)
Riesling:
With this one I am going a little off format. I could post a picture of the German wine Pyramid here, but you all probably wouldn't care to see that. If you are buying a NEW WORLD Riesling, expect it to be SWEET unless the label says otherwise. German Rieslings can be very dry to VERY sweet. If you like desert wine a German Eiswein is a Riesling made from grapes that froze on the vine. If you like Dry look for German "Erstes Gewaches" or "First Growths" they are almost all dry. German Rieslings marked Qualitatswein BearenAuslese <QBA> are allowed to sweeten the wine with unfermented grape juice. The Qualitatswein Mit Pradikat <QMP> (meaning With Atribute) can not ad that juice. These are picked from the vine based on sugar level. Starting with Kabinet (least sugar) to Spatlese (Late Harvest) Auslese (later harvest) Baeren Auslese (even more sugar) etc.... ad nauseum. (the erstes Gewaches will use the Pradikat or Atribute to tell you the beginning sugar amounts, but these have been fermented DRY so do not confuse them with the Spatlese or Auslese QMPs)
They also grow Rielsing in the Alsace of France, these are ALL dry.
You will find many dry and sweet Rieslings from the US and Germany that are under $30. Look to Washington for great ones like Bonny Doon.
-------------------
Fun Whites.
Here are some white wines/grapes you may never have heard of. Again you will find these for less than $30 easily.
Viura:
This is a Spanish grape that has been exciting me lately. I have had it as a single varietal and in blends. This is a nice dry wine that goes GREAT with shellfish. Think Seafood Paella.
Albarino:
Paella makes me think of Albarino it is also Spanish. This is an "Off-Dry" (winespeak for not sweet, not dry) white that is a great transition for people from sweet to dry. I always think shellfish with this one.
Vinho Verde:
Portugese version of Albarino. Albarino is the grape used in this wine actually. The Verde refers to the fact that the wine is young and fresh and should be enjoyed that way. Drink Vinho Verde now, do not try to age it.
Falanghina I mentioned earlier.
Chenin Blanc: Called Steen in S. Africa, sometimes Vouvray in the Loire Valley, and Chenin Blanc everywhere in the new world, it is a light bodied white with a lot of flavor. Peaches and Pear are very evident in the flavors. The Vouvrays will be sweeter typically.
Gewurtstraminer: A German grape from the Traminer family (huge grape family that MANY other grapes are related to). The German ones will be sweet, the Alsace ones will be dry. Again the new world ones will say sweet or dry typically. The flavors will be similar to Riesling, but the nose is VERY perfumy. I always joke that they smell like my grandma's purse.
Muscadelle and Picpoul are other effervescent whites from France that are dry and are very nice and can be inexpensive.
-----------------
Rose Wine
White Zinfandel was made by mistake. If you go into a wine or liquor store and ask for Zinfandel, you will be shown the Red Wine section. Real Zinfandel is a deep bold Red Wine.
The color of red wine comes from the skins of the red grapes. So when the juice is only allowed contact with the skins for a short period of time you get pink or Rose wine.
Rose wine will range from very dry to sweet. Most old world Roses are dry.
---------------------
Desert Wine. I thought I would talk just a bit about desert wine.
Moscato:
You will see Moscato in many forms. Martini and Rossi Asti (aka Asti Spumanti) is a sweet sparkling wine made from the Moscato grape. A Moscato d'Asti, is a Moscato from the Asti region of Italy.
Moscatos will almost always be sweet. Muscadelle and other wines that start with MUSCA may not be sweet. If you are looking for a sweet Moscato the best bet is to stick with the d'Asti.
I talked about Eiswein. Also look at Trocken Baeren Auslese for really sweet wines.
Tokaji is Hungarian desert wine. It is very sweet and syrupy.
Sauternes is a desert wine made in Bordeaux from Sauvingon Blanc. What happens is the grapes on the vine get a mold on them that is called Noble Rot, from Botrytis. This concentrates the sugar in the wine. You can find some Sauternes for less than $30 but I don't reccomend them. The best Sauternes are very pricey.
Vin Santo is an Italian desert wine. These are some of the finest desert wines on the planet. I love Vin Santo.
Port Wine. This will be hard not to go off on several paragraphs, I will try to give just the basics.
Port is red wine that is allowed to ferment for half the time of dry wine, so only half the sugar is converted to alcohol. The fermentation is stopped by added Neutral Grape Spirit (unaged brandy) this increases the alcohol content to 20%, but the wine is still sweet.
Port aged in smaller oak barrels or "Pipes" have a more brick or "Tawny" color and are called Tawny's. The flavors will be toffee, nuts, caramel, brown sugar etc...
The ones aged in larger oak barrels or "Barriques" will be "Ruby" in color, and are called Ruby's. These have flavors of red fruits, berries, plums etc...
You should be able to find great drinkable port for under $30. Port is practically indestructable. You can keep a bottle of port open for a month or more and it will still taste great. The fortification by brandy prevents the deterioration that tables wines have after a day.
---------------
I hope this helped for the White Wine lovers, and the Rose and Desert Wine drinkers.
Don't let wine intimidate you. Get out there and buy a bottle and start learning the way I did. By drinking it!
- Judge Smails
- 02-05-2010, 11:44 PM
Rek,
Good stuff, enjoy the advice. Why does it seem that Italian Chard ( or they call it that) is less " stout" then California?
Good stuff, enjoy the advice. Why does it seem that Italian Chard ( or they call it that) is less " stout" then California?
- rekcaSxT
- 02-05-2010, 11:46 PM
- Judge Smails
- 02-06-2010, 12:07 AM
Flavor, don't focus on alc content
- rekcaSxT
- 02-06-2010, 12:21 AM
A common descriptor for California wine is "Fruit Forward" in the US we like our excesses right? Well in our wine we want the sweetest sweet wines, the boldest red, the oakiest Chardonnays etc...
European wines in general are a lot less "Fruit Forward". They also tend to be more subtle and have more finesse with flavor.
This is probably why you feel Cali Chards are more "stout".
Everyone has different pallets and preferences, so a lot of this is subjective.
Hope that helps.
European wines in general are a lot less "Fruit Forward". They also tend to be more subtle and have more finesse with flavor.
This is probably why you feel Cali Chards are more "stout".
Everyone has different pallets and preferences, so a lot of this is subjective.
Hope that helps.
- charlestudor2005
- 02-06-2010, 06:53 AM
Outstanding dissertation!!! 
Thanks so much for taking the time to do this. I've been wanting a short, concise description of whites for some time, but it seems everytime/everywhere I looked, the descriptions seemed to be intricate, convoluted and confusing. This was a great read, and I've copied it to a file on my computer for future reference. 
Thanks so much for taking the time to do this. I've been wanting a short, concise description of whites for some time, but it seems everytime/everywhere I looked, the descriptions seemed to be intricate, convoluted and confusing. This was a great read, and I've copied it to a file on my computer for future reference.
- rekcaSxT
- 02-06-2010, 05:07 PM
Outstanding dissertation!!!Thank you sir.
One little disclaimer though. No one, not even the world's top Sommelier can know everything about wine. If you ever meet anyone who says they know it all when it comes to wine, steer clear. The wine industry is evolving everyday. From vintage to vintage things can change subtly or drastically. Laws change and cyclical weather patterns change that affect wine.
This year I will likely take the plunge to become certified as a Sommelier. I can't wait to be able to legitimize what I do, and join the ranks of Sommeliers from around the world.
- irena
- 02-07-2010, 01:36 PM
No it is a statement of fact. Sobieski (or as you would call it "Sobiesky") is a value brand marketed by the folks from Belvedere Originally Posted by atlcomedyAtl, both is well-distilled industrial vodka, and thus one is unable to taste differences.
Anyhow rekcaSxT is correct here. both is polish wodka, however the labels are owned by two different french holding companies. Vodka Sobiski is a label of Belvedere S.A., and Belvedere Vodka is a label of LVMH.
(Belvedere S.A. and LVMH are actually two very unequal competitors.)
Belvedere S.A.
http://www.belvedere.fr/p-mar.php
LVMH (Moet Hennessy Louis Vuitton)
http://www.lvmh.fr/groupe/pg_societe...0&rub=3&srub=1
- fpguy
- 02-08-2010, 05:13 PM
Nicole, since you are into Pinots, I will have to share a bottle of Pisoni with you only 150 cases made from the Pisoni Vinyard
- HoneyRose
- 02-09-2010, 11:52 AM
My favorite whine?
"I wanna go to Miami!"
....oh, WINE? I just get those little four-packs of Shiraz at the grocery store. They're single servings.
"I wanna go to Miami!"
....oh, WINE? I just get those little four-packs of Shiraz at the grocery store. They're single servings.