feel free to flame

But I must again assert: when providers insist "every provider is 'worth' $400/hour and should always use the strictest of screening,"…... Originally Posted by sketchball82

who ever said this? caroline certainly didn't, unless i just missed something. she's much smarter than that.

as for your dissent vs. my comment, don't take it too personally. it's the internets, and i'm just making a point. for every guy who isn't an idiot on this board, there are 4 waiting to prove me right.

the pareto principle is always in effect, breh.

First, I agree 100%. It's your business and your body. You are entitled to whatever practices you choose. If you are happy with your business, then what else needs to be said?

Second, I infer from your physical description comment that thought I was being adversarial. I didn't mean to ever imply that ladies that do not match Caroline's physical description are not absolutely gorgeous and fantastic. There are many gentlemen out here that have varying perspectives on what is beautiful.

Where I disagree with you and Caroline is that while I think there are many fantastic ladies (eccie ladies are amazing: you are la crème de la crème), the brutal reality and as harsh as it sounds, 50% of women have below average appeal. There is an important concept in business: know your product. If you think you have a million dollar product, but the public thinks its worth 20 cents, you're going to go broke because no one will pay your demands. Obviously that is an extreme example, but I think the concept can be extrapolated. It's important to understand your worth.

Think about it this way: what does every provider do if she's getting 8 appointments a day but only wants 3? She tightens screening to make sure she's seeing classy guys and raises per prices. She might as well make more for those 3 session, right? That's exactly what she should do. If there is too much demand, choking supply controls prices (i.e., raises prices), which is good for her. BUT as many provider do not want to admit, the opposite is also true. If you are not getting the business you want, you seriously have to address your pricing and screening, and it's very important that young providers understand this. I've heard many, many providers upset on these forums (and others) because they don't understand why they aren't getting business. The answer is simple: lower prices and loosen screening. Does that mean there is more risk: absolutely. Does that mean that she won't be making as much: possibly (one could theoretically sell on volume as well). Only that provider can decide if the risk, longer hours, and likely lower profit are worth it to her.

But I must again assert: when providers insist "every provider is 'worth' $400/hour and should always use the strictest of screening," they are doing a real disservice to providers with an unsustainable business model. They are imbuing those providers with a mentality that they should always charge $x.00 and should always screen strictly. Respectfully, that mentality that may work for you, but entitlement practices has lost site of, not only this business, but business as a whole. Yes, it is your product. You are entitled to whatever practices you wish. But everyone is not you. Its important to understand that there is a difference between entitled (i.e., can) and what's good for business (i.e., should = making a good profit). In short, many providers that aren't making money read these comments and assume that means that they do have a competitive product when they really do not. Originally Posted by sketchball82

I get what you are trying to say and I agree. Not every lady can charge a premium. However, to suggest that a lady can't screen strictly because her price is or isn't at a certain level is ridiculous. We'd all be better off if the majority of ladies would screen strictly. How many times do you go to the "alert" section and see where a lady was ripped off or injured, and when asked about how she screened him, the answer is often something like "Well, I usually screen rigorously, but this time..." Or when a guy posts that a lady cashed and dashed, or upsold him, or what have you... usually you see them say that these ladies didn't screen them very well, if at all. Does that information tell you nothing about the reliability and benefit on both sides of strict screening?

You feel like I am doing the ladies a disservice by telling them that they can screen strictly. However, I feel like you're doing the ladies a disservice by telling them that they can't. I rarely see a lady bring up strict screening on here without at least a few gents chiming in that they would never put up with it. If a lady is impressionable/inexperienced she might assume this to be true of the majority. In my experience, it is not. I want to at least put the information out there so they might TRY it. If it doesn't work for her, then you were right in her case. If it does, then I was right.

I feel like you are doing the greater disservice. The worst that can happen if they try my way is their business takes a hit for a little while. The worst that could happen if they run with your advice (or God forbid just don't screen at all) is death... not to mention short of that is robbery, injury, jail time, or just ending up in the room with someone they can't stand.

Just my opinions.

caroline understands that, for whatever reason, there are those of us who will blithely, without hesitation, and with no worry for consequences, do whatever a lady asks in the process of setting up a date.

and yes, we look at you whiners, hagglers, entitled slobs, and various other types of fucktard as total and complete shitheads.

that's the difference between a hobbyist and a client. Originally Posted by john_deere

Everyone was playing nice until you started to use names and epithets and made the discussion personal. Why did you do that? To boost your cred as a "hobbyist" (whoop de do) or just to show that you are superior to the rest of us? Either way, it isn't pleasant.

I don't whine, I don't haggle, I don't feel entitled but I do have a sense about my personal security and what is reasonable. That seems to be the viewpoint of a number of posters. All I got from your post is a glimmer at who is the real "fucktard" (boy do I hate that insulting word) and "complete shithead" who can't be nice when discussing something that really has no impact on him. If you are willing to go along with full and complete disclosure, go do it, but keep the vindictive bile to yourself.

Another thread fouled by a fucktard.

No. This is wrong.

Being well informed is not a bad thing. Listening to the bad advice of other guys and thinking you know "how to hobby properly" which is what usually happens on this board can make you a pain in the rear and an unnecessary hassle to deal with.

"Hobbyists" make things too difficult by trying to withhold money until after the session, demanding to be the first appointment of the day, reverse clock watching (meaning being the kind of guy that hopes/tries to go over the appointment time by 20 minutes, leaving disappointed if she DOESN'T give you extra time, and bitching to no end if she shorts you by 5 minutes), rarely tip (even for great service), think that P411 okays should be the last word of screening, etc. etc. I could go on.

"Clients" on the other hand typically behave totally differently. They rarely pull any of the stunts I listed. They are genuinely just there to have a good time, laugh, have a drink, enjoy the attention of a sexy lady for a while, and then go on their merry way. They don't complicate the experience by trying to be "smarter than her" about it. They don't over think it. They don't take the advice of gentlemen who are NOT the ones going to be serving them.

Who do you think wants to help you have a better experience? The guy on the internet who has never met you, never will, doesn't care about you, and has no vested interest in how wonderful your hobby life is? Or the lady who will be spending time with you, hoping to show you a great time, hoping you will come back again and again, and is hoping to enjoy you, also?

I'm not saying every lady is awesome and every "hobbyist" is bad. I'm saying a lot of you more vocal posters have gotten too bogged down in "how to do this" that you've forgotten how to just relax and enjoy it and let the lady have a good experience with you. I'm always so stressed out when I know I'm about to see a guy that is a typical "hobbyist" and chances are good that I won't even set up the appointment. "Clients" however, are a joy to see. Neither is paying more, but I guarantee you the client that makes me feel comfortable and relaxed and lets me just enjoy him gets a better experience, and probably a lot of the extras that the hobbyist is "hobbying" himself right out of.

Most of the newbies that see me and have a fantastic time never would have had that experience if they had taken "hobbyist" advice first. IJS. Originally Posted by CarolineDavenport

Originally Posted by awl4knot

So....after reading 7 pages of this thread,,,I used to be heavy in the hobby (during ASPD) and due to being in a relationship have not hobbyed in several years. How in the world would I ever get screened and get a acceptance for a date? I guess if you take time off then you just lose? Find a provider that accepts newbies and see her even though you have no attraction to her? Or give your life history to half a dozen providers and see if any of them will have pity on you? Not very sure how this has all changed but it used to be easier!

I get what you are trying to say and I agree. Not every lady can charge a premium. However, to suggest that a lady can't screen strictly because her price is or isn't at a certain level is ridiculous. We'd all be better off if the majority of ladies would screen strictly. How many times do you go to the "alert" section and see where a lady was ripped off or injured, and when asked about how she screened him, the answer is often something like "Well, I usually screen rigorously, but this time..." Or when a guy posts that a lady cashed and dashed, or upsold him, or what have you... usually you see them say that these ladies didn't screen them very well, if at all. Does that information tell you nothing about the reliability and benefit on both sides of strict screening?

You feel like I am doing the ladies a disservice by telling them that they can screen strictly. However, I feel like you're doing the ladies a disservice by telling them that they can't. I rarely see a lady bring up strict screening on here without at least a few gents chiming in that they would never put up with it. If a lady is impressionable/inexperienced she might assume this to be true of the majority. In my experience, it is not. I want to at least put the information out there so they might TRY it. If it doesn't work for her, then you were right in her case. If it does, then I was right.

I feel like you are doing the greater disservice. The worst that can happen if they try my way is their business takes a hit for a little while. The worst that could happen if they run with your advice (or God forbid just don't screen at all) is death... not to mention short of that is robbery, injury, jail time, or just ending up in the room with someone they can't stand.

Just my opinions. Originally Posted by CarolineDavenport

We understand each other, but sadly we just disagree. I do agree that it would be tragic for lady to befall some horrible incident, but I think the value in strict screening is more peace-of-mind than actually protecting yourself from any harm. If someone has some nefarious plan in mind, I cannot believe that a pay stub (or other screening mechanism) would be an obstacle. As several have noted in other threads, many gentlemen have a regular they treat like gold to use as a reference so they can be obnoxious, aggressive, and other horrible things to other providers.

Moreover, I note that us hobbyists take these risks too. Several hobbyists have been robbed, mugged, or sometimes murdered as well. Yet if we went beyond the run of the mill reviews to screen providers and actually asked for a pay stub, identification, or something similar, it would not be tolerated and the rest of the providers would be reading about it on these boards as us hobbyists got flamed. There is a bit of a double standard, yet we hobbyists keep taking those risks and doing what we do best, and we're still here to argue the practicality of screening!

Do note, Caroline, that I appreciate your candor and respect your opinion. I would not dare ever suggest to a provider that she should lower the bar for her screening where she does not feel safe, but I do put forth that the safety she feels is an illusion.

So....after reading 7 pages of this thread,,,I used to be heavy in the hobby (during ASPD) and due to being in a relationship have not hobbyed in several years. How in the world would I ever get screened and get a acceptance for a date? I guess if you take time off then you just lose? Find a provider that accepts newbies and see her even though you have no attraction to her? Or give your life history to half a dozen providers and see if any of them will have pity on you? Not very sure how this has all changed but it used to be easier! Originally Posted by shortstroke35

P411 is the best way back into the hobby imo.

https://www.preferred411.com/

....but I do put forth that the safety she feels is an illusion. Originally Posted by sketchball82

true, but we're all living an illusion of safety.

So....after reading 7 pages of this thread,,,I used to be heavy in the hobby (during ASPD) and due to being in a relationship have not hobbyed in several years. How in the world would I ever get screened and get a acceptance for a date? I guess if you take time off then you just lose? Find a provider that accepts newbies and see her even though you have no attraction to her? Or give your life history to half a dozen providers and see if any of them will have pity on you? Not very sure how this has all changed but it used to be easier! Originally Posted by shortstroke35

I don't think it is as difficult as this thread would make you think. I had a bunch of OKs on P411 and plenty of refs. Then I went offline for about 2 years and deleted all my OKs, changed phone numbers, etc.

I didn't have any problems seeing someone when I decided to later. I have never provided the personal info some in this thread request as an alternative, and if asked I would just move on the next option.

We understand each other, but sadly we just disagree. I do agree that it would be tragic for lady to befall some horrible incident, but I think the value in strict screening is more peace-of-mind than actually protecting yourself from any harm. If someone has some nefarious plan in mind, I cannot believe that a pay stub (or other screening mechanism) would be an obstacle. As several have noted in other threads, many gentlemen have a regular they treat like gold to use as a reference so they can be obnoxious, aggressive, and other horrible things to other providers.

Moreover, I note that us hobbyists take these risks too. Several hobbyists have been robbed, mugged, or sometimes murdered as well. Yet if we went beyond the run of the mill reviews to screen providers and actually asked for a pay stub, identification, or something similar, it would not be tolerated and the rest of the providers would be reading about it on these boards as us hobbyists got flamed. There is a bit of a double standard, yet we hobbyists keep taking those risks and doing what we do best, and we're still here to argue the practicality of screening!

Do note, Caroline, that I appreciate your candor and respect your opinion. I would not dare ever suggest to a provider that she should lower the bar for her screening where she does not feel safe, but I do put forth that the safety she feels is an illusion. Originally Posted by sketchball82

I'm going to end here because at this point we're really just going in circles.

My parting thoughts are thus:

Ladies, don't let the loudest guys on this board make you think that you can't screen newbies or those without sufficient references however you see fit. For every guy that throws a fit, there's two more behind him that won't. You can listen to someone who has very little experience with other clients (any gent on this thread), or you can listen to ladies who deal with clients on a daily basis. Go as far as not even seeing gents without acceptable references and I will bet you still do fine. Offering some newbie screening options that you're comfortable with does no one harm. He won't give you the info if he doesn't want to, but if he does, you both win a (hopefully) great appointment. The gents that refuse your alternate screening will find someone else. If they don't like the options they are left with, well, that's not your problem.

Happy humping, everyone.

I'm going to end here because at this point we're really just going in circles. Originally Posted by CarolineDavenport

This wasn't foreplay?

This wasn't foreplay? Originally Posted by sketchball82

No, foreplay is much more fun.

caroline understands that, for whatever reason, there are those of us who will blithely, without hesitation, and with no worry for consequences, do whatever a lady asks in the process of setting up a date.

and yes, we look at you whiners, hagglers, entitled slobs, and various other types of fucktard as total and complete shitheads.

that's the difference between a hobbyist and a client. Originally Posted by john_deere

Wow...

So you'd gladly submit your work place info, and a photo of your drivers license to be able to see a hooker?

I'm a hobbyist...and I'd never be that fucking stupid...

Wow...

So you'd gladly submit your work place info, and a photo of your drivers license to be able to see a hooker?

I'm a hobbyist...and I'd never be that fucking stupid... Originally Posted by Wakeup

oh, ok, so you think you're qualified to judge everybody else even though you don't know anything about me, the way i operate, or the world i live in?

yeah, you actuallly are pretty fucking stupid.