Democrats Stage Sit-In On House Floor Over Gun Bills

fair point, I believe there should a process to get off the terror watch list.
If you cant fly in a plane cause ur more likely to hijack that plane and fly it into a building, then you shouldn't be allowed to stroll in a gun store and buy whatever guns you like with no problem. Originally Posted by southtown4488

This begs the question about the terror watch list; if someone who is not an American is on the terror watch list, why are they still in the country? Seems to me that if your scary enough to be on the list then you're scary enough to leave.

You're truly loony if you for one moment believe the "Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee" actually represents Republican interests and beliefs.


That was not the point I was trying to make. I think a compromise between Republicans and Democrats would suffice. Originally Posted by SassySue

Let me demonstrate what is considered a "compromise" to a democrat. A guy goes to an office and grabs three reams of copy paper. The owner of the office asks what he is doing. The guy says he needs to make a copy because people who work in and for the office are always using his copier. The owner says he doesn't want to give up three reams of paper and they don't make that many copies. The guy says "lets compromise" and he takes only two reams of paper.

This begs the question about the terror watch list; if someone who is not an American is on the terror watch list, why are they still in the country? Seems to me that if your scary enough to be on the list then you're scary enough to leave. Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

You're not a fan of due process, are you?

This begs the question about the terror watch list; if someone who is not an American is on the terror watch list, why are they still in the country? Seems to me that if your scary enough to be on the list then you're scary enough to leave. Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

The "issue" has been, and will continue to be, how "easy" it is to get on the list, and how difficult it is to get off .....

... first ... when do you find out you are on? Never at a "convenient" time!

... second ... how do you find out "why' you got put on the list? FOIA!

... third ... how to you prove you should not be on the list? Remedies!

... fourth .. how long does all of that administrative and judicial process take?

In the meantime .... your constitutional right is being violated.

Since when did our jurisprudence switch from the government having the burden of proof of "guilt" to the citizen proving they are "not guilty"!

Here's what Heller vs. DC says about the general concept of gun restrictions:

"We know of no other enumerated constitutional right whose core protection has been subjected to a freestanding “interest-balancing” approach. The very enumeration of the right takes out of the hands of government—even the Third Branch of Government—the power to decide on a case-by-case basis whether the right is really worth insisting upon. A constitutional guarantee subject to future judges’ assessments of its usefulness is no constitutional guarantee at all. Constitutional rights are enshrined with the scope they were understood to have when the people adopted them, whether or not future legislatures or (yes) even future judges think that scope too broad." 540 U.S. at 63.

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/

Friday, June 24, 2016

Games Overgrown Political Children Play

Posted by Daniel Greenfield 3 Comments

We don't have an adult political system. What we do have is a political system in which childish tactics are used to play childish games with adult consequences. As described by Dr. Berne in Games People Play, "games" are dysfunctional strategies that can be used by adults to elicit childish or parental responses. Childish strategies shift responsibility to the "parent" while still claiming power. An adult who acts like a child gets to control what happens without being responsible for it.

(This article uses a very loose adaptation of Berne's Games People Play as a model.)

When the left shifted from a worker's movement to a youth movement because dissatisfaction was more likely to be found in the children of the middle and upper classes than among workers, protest strategies often became childish. The classic protesters were self-consciously juvenile outraging sensibilities so to force their establishment opponents to play the role of the sanctimonious parent while they reveled in being the liberated children. "Outrage" is a game that children learn to play at an early age. Some adults never stop playing it, at parties or at family reunions.

The modern campus crybully movement doesn't seek to outrage sensibilities by being provocative. Instead it's playing an even more immature childish game. The Yale protest over "offensive" Halloween costumes was the perfect example as a student screamed, "It is your job to create a place of comfort and home for the students who live in Silliman." This is the "Bad Parent" game.

Protesters, whether on campus or at #BlackLivesMatter events scream about their pain and how neglected they are. They claim to be traumatized, exhausted, in fear of their lives and unable to go about their daily business because the adults aren't taking good care of them. They're bad parents.

The classic protesters were playing children outraging parental sensibilities. The modern protesters claim to be abused children who need safe spaces and protection from bullying. They demand the right to be children while everyone must adopt the role of parents and coddle them. Tears, outbursts and tantrums glorified as "die ins" in which everyone lies on the floor reinforce their childish case.

The "Crybully" is a perfect example of adults using childish behavior to achieve their demands while forcing their opponents into a parental mode. The protesters openly disavow responsibility for their own behavior and demand that administrators, authorities and society stop being bad parents.

"Bad Parent" is a further regression to childhood than "Outrage". Its origins go back directly to the coddled baby. Crybullies achieve their political goals using a childish strategies in which they use power while claiming to be powerless and demand that those who have power do what they want.

There are two ways to counter this protest style. The adult approach is to insist that the protesters are adults and must be responsible. Rather than falling into the parental style which reproves and plays into the psychodrama, the adult style is to reject the entire dynamic and hold them responsible.

The more familiar way is to meet them on a childish level by taunting and ridiculing their childishness. This can be emotionally satisfying. But it plays into the psychodrama, riling up the crybullies to further cries that they are being picked on. The authorities are pressured to stop being "bad parents" and protect them. Enough taunting may lead the crybullies to overplay their hand, but it is at least as likely to lead to crackdowns on free speech. This already occurred on Twitter.

But protests are increasingly juvenile in nature. Occupy Wall Street consisted of a bunch of grad students from wealthy families camping out in a New York City park usually used by secretaries and construction workers on their lunch break, fouling it, issuing incoherent demands, conducting hand signal sessions and generally tiring out even the patience of their biggest supporters.

Political candidates also devolve into childish games.




Bernie Sanders - Don't Wanna Go To School

Bernie is the candidate with the most juvenile appeal for obvious reasons. The game he's been playing is "Don't Wanna Go To School".

"Don't Wanna Go To School" is a familiar game for most parents.

Billy: I don't wanna go to school

Mom: All children have to go to school

Billy: Nobody should have to go to school

And so a protest movement is born. The individual grievance becomes a collective grievance. "Nobody should have to go to school" morphs into "Nobody should have to pay for college" and "Nobody should have to pay for health care". And "Nothing bad should ever happen".

There's nothing resembling a sensible and coherent plan for working any of this out. But the negative assertion is inherently popular and liberating. It also forces critics into unpopular "sensible" adult and parental roles. It forces them to be the ones telling the child about the real world.

Mom: But if you don't go to school, how will you get a job and make money?

Billy: Everyone should get money for free.

Mom: But if everyone gets free money, it'll be worthless.

Billy: There should be a law that stores have to give you stuff anyway

Bernie's strategy is forcing Hillary Clinton to play "Mom" and explain why this won't work. And nothing is quite as alienating to younger Bernie voters than listening to her "But if you don't go to school" speech.

Bernie Sanders may be old, but he's been playing "Don't Wanna Go To School" all his life.

Sanders took his first bride to live in a maple sugar shack with a dirt floor, and she soon left him. Penniless, he went on unemployment. Then he had a child out of wedlock. Desperate, he tried carpentry but could barely sink a nail.

He lived on unemployment and then his political campaign became unlimited unemployment.

Bernie Sanders encourages his supporters to maintain a juvenile role. But Bernie playing the child role forces Hillary Clinton into the parent role. And then she becomes the "Bad Mom" who won't let everyone have candy. That makes her even more unlikable.

Hillary Clinton's base becomes older voters and black voters who appreciate the need for a strong maternal role. While younger voters are drawn to Bernie's "Don't Wanna Go to School" campaign.



Hillary Clinton - I Don't Want to be Responsible Anymore

Bill Clinton was always playing the "You Caught Me" game. This is a common juvenile game in which the child breaks something intending to get caught. After initial recriminations, the child charms his way out of the offense and has love showered on him. This is more common when the parent feels guilty or neglectful because of a family situation. Likely the case for Bill Clinton.

Bill went on playing "You Caught Me" throughout his White House years and both of Hillary's campaigns. In the game, he makes a mess that everyone around him has to clean up.

"You Caught Me" is not really self-sabotage though it looks that way. It's a straight refusal to adopt adult responsibility because of learned rewards for childish behavior. Bill Clinton's messes don't hurt him. They create more work for those around him while making him the center of attention.

Hillary Clinton however engages in actual self-sabotage by telling ridiculous lies that are certain to be exposed, e.g. under fire in Bosnia, negotiated peace in Northern Ireland. This game is an even more familiar one. It's "I Don't Want to be Responsible Anymore".

"I Don't Want to be Responsible Anymore" is played by powerful people, overachievers who are not receiving emotional rewards for their efforts. The senior male politician who stupidly commits adultery and the executive who blatantly embezzles to gamble are examples of this behavior. They are driven to achieve, but their achievements don't make them happy, so they undermine their own achievements with childish behavior to revert back to a happier and less dutiful time.

Hillary Clinton is driven to achieve power in a democratic system, but she dislikes people. While her husband genuinely liked campaigning, she hates it. Her attempts to pretend that she likes to meet people make her seem artificial and phony. Bill Clinton found emotional rewards in politics. If Hillary Clinton finds them anywhere, it's in the actual use of power. But she never truly had that.

"I Don't Want to be Responsible Anymore" is also often played by the spouses of irresponsible men. It's a game for dutiful people who are not truly responsible, who are stuck doing what they don't like to do, and sabotage themselves to find a way out. Their sabotage is a cry for help. A part of them that they won't admit to hates their life and is looking for an exit.

A Senator begins a wildly inappropriate affair that he knows will come out. A bank executive plays online poker and has to steal from the bank to keep going. A Secretary of State sets up a private email server in the clumsiest way possible continuing a long career of clumsy unnecessary scandals. They know that they will get caught. And they don't even have a plausible excuse to offer when they do.

What they are really saying is, "I don't want to be in the Senate", "I don't want to go to work here every day" and "I don't really want to run for President."

I rest my case. Originally Posted by SassySue

You ought to just simply rest.

Jim

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/ Originally Posted by IIFFOFRDB

That's a very good article that explains Bill & Hilliary Clinton. those 2 are a trip, perfect for each other.

Bernie Sanders. Interesting take on him. guess he is the ultimate moocher.

just wish there was one for ex speaker crying man John Boener.

Getting back on topic...

Then there's this little bit of hypocrisy...

"26 of the Democrats Who Participated in the Gun Control Sit-In Own Guns"

https://heatst.com/politics/26-of-th...t-in-own-guns/

Hilarious, no?

More "rules for thee, but not for me".

The "issue" has been, and will continue to be, how "easy" it is to get on the list, and how difficult it is to get off .....

... first ... when do you find out you are on? Never at a "convenient" time!

... second ... how do you find out "why' you got put on the list? FOIA!

... third ... how to you prove you should not be on the list? Remedies!

... fourth .. how long does all of that administrative and judicial process take?

In the meantime .... your constitutional right is being violated.

Since when did our jurisprudence switch from the government having the burden of proof of "guilt" to the citizen proving they are "not guilty"!

Here's what Heller vs. DC says about the general concept of gun restrictions:

"We know of no other enumerated constitutional right whose core protection has been subjected to a freestanding “interest-balancing” approach. The very enumeration of the right takes out of the hands of government—even the Third Branch of Government—the power to decide on a case-by-case basis whether the right is really worth insisting upon. A constitutional guarantee subject to future judges’ assessments of its usefulness is no constitutional guarantee at all. Constitutional rights are enshrined with the scope they were understood to have when the people adopted them, whether or not future legislatures or (yes) even future judges think that scope too broad." 540 U.S. at 63. Originally Posted by LexusLover

Was watching a Fox clip and Bill O'Reilly was actually backing the President on this, complaining about "Due Process" inconveniences. But you are correct LL in that this is the way the NFL operates. No notification that you are on it and the process on how to get on it and off it is secret.

This is a perfect example of the difference between "Progressives" and "Liberals." Liberals wouldn't tolerate this behaviour by the govt, Progressives embrace it especially when they are in office.

Reminds me of Obama's "Terror Tuesday" meeting that he so boldly said there wouldn't be any mistakes and a couple of months later a 16 kid who wasn't on their "To Drone" list was killed by a drone. This after the courts refused to even divulge the rationale that allows the POTUS to mark American citizens for death without due process.

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/ Originally Posted by IIFFOFRDB

Your post is so unrealistic it's not even funny. It's the super rich kids who don't want to work and who have never worked for a living. It's the middle class kids who have to work while going to school. They struggle to pay their student loan debt after graduation even if they can't get a job after graduation! I saw a youtube video about a young girl who graduated with an enormous amount of student loan debt after graduating, who had to work 3 minimum wage jobs to support herself and pay off her student loan debt, because she could not find a job in the field she had studied for. You don't know what you are talking about. The banks are making a killing off these student loans because these kids and their parents cannot afford to pay for college.

I wanted to go to college, but my parents could not afford it. I had to support myself at age 19 and had to pay my parents room and board. I tried going to school at night full time, but it was too hard. I dropped out. I couldn't get enough sleep. Working full time and going to school full time was too hard for me. Then I got pregnant and had to support a baby and myself by myself. No way could I go back to school. Her father bailed out and I had to support both of us without child support. We were right at the income level where I could get no help in the form of food stamps or housing, at $12 per hour. After paying babysitting expenses, rent, and food, we barely got by. We lived in an apartment infested with mice at one point! I had to set traps with peanut butter. You haven't got a clue!

You're not a fan of due process, are you? Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

So..you want DUE PROCESS to make them leave the country.. but no due process to take away their right to buy a gun?

Wow. If you can violate due process for one Constitutional right.. you can violate it for all of them, right? Anyone on the watch list can have their First Amendment rights cancelled (government takes over all facebook, twitter, snapchat,etc accounts and all web pages the suspect visited), their 4th Amendment rights (anyone on the watch list can have anything, home, office, car, computer, phone, etc searched without a warrant) or their Fifth Amendment rights..(Police take them in for questioning, they can't say "I refuse to answer".. but are forced to speak even if it incriminates them"

All those for tossing out the Second amendment rights of CITIZENS on the "watch list".. should also be for all those other Amendments/rights being cancelled.

Your post is so unrealistic it's not even funny. It's the super rich kids who don't want to work and who have never worked for a living. It's the middle class kids who have to work while going to school. They struggle to pay their student loan debt after graduation even if they can't get a job after graduation! I saw a youtube video about a young girl who graduated with an enormous amount of student loan debt after graduating, who had to work 3 minimum wage jobs to support herself and pay off her student loan debt, because she could not find a job in the field she had studied for. You don't know what you are talking about. The banks are making a killing off these student loans because these kids and their parents cannot afford to pay for college.

I wanted to go to college, but my parents could not afford it. I had to support myself at age 19 and had to pay my parents room and board. I tried going to school at night full time, but it was too hard. I dropped out. I couldn't get enough sleep. Working full time and going to school full time was too hard for me. Then I got pregnant and had to support a baby and myself by myself. No way could I go back to school. Her father bailed out and I had to support both of us without child support. We were right at the income level where I could get no help in the form of food stamps or housing, at $12 per hour. After paying babysitting expenses, rent, and food, we barely got by. We lived in an apartment infested with mice at one point! I had to set traps with peanut butter. You haven't got a clue! Originally Posted by SassySue

Poor, Poor SisseySeeker... Made some bad decisions, did ya? CRY 0zombie, CRY! https://theconservativetreehouse.com...n-a-hurricane/

COLD ANGER – Entire Institutional Systems Will Be Dispatched Like a Feather In a Hurricane…

There’s a level of anger far deeper and more consequential than expressed rage or visible behavior, it’s called Cold Anger.

Cold Anger does not need to go to violence. For those who carry it, no conversation is needed when we meet. You cannot poll or measure it; specifically most who carry it avoid discussion. And that decision has nothing whatsoever to do with any form of correctness.


We watched the passage of Obamacare at 1:38am on the day before Christmas Eve in 2009. We watched the Senate, then the House attempt passing Amnesty in 2014. We’ve watched the $900 billion Stimulus Bill being spent each year, every year, for seven consecutive years. Omnibus, Porkulous, QE1, QE2, Bailouts, Crony-Capitalism.

Cold Anger absorbs betrayal silently, often prudently.

We’ve waited each year, every year, for eight years, to see a federal budget, only to be given another $2 trillion Omnibus spending bill by Speaker Ryan. We’ve watched the ridiculing of cops, the riots, and the lack of support for laws, or their enforcement. We’ve been absorbing.

Cold Anger is not hatred, it is far more purposeful.

Cold Anger takes notice of the liars, even from a great distance – seemingly invisible to the mob. Cold Anger will still hold open the door for the riot goer. Mannerly. We’ve watched our borders being intentionally unsecured. We’ve watched Islamic Terrorists slaughter Americans as our politicians proclaim their uncertainty of motive.

Cold Anger when evidenced is more severe because it is more strategic. Eric Cantor, the Brexit and Donald Trump might aide your understanding.


Cold Anger does not gloat; it absorbs consistent vilification and ridicule as fuel. This sensibility does not want to exist, it is forced to exist in otherwise unwilling hosts – who also refuse to be destabilized by it.

Transgender bathrooms appear seemingly more important than border security. Employment and standard of living in Vietnam and Southeast Asia appears more important to Washington DC, than the financial security of Youngstown Ohio. We didn’t create that impression, we are simply responding to the reality afore us.

Deliberate intent and prudence will insure avoiding failure. The course, is thoughtful vigilance; a strategy devoid of emotion.

Foolishness and betrayal of our nation have served to reveal dangers within our present condition. Misplaced corrective action, regardless of intent, is neither safe nor wise.

Cold Anger is not driven to act in spite of itself; it drives a reckoning.

When the well attired lady leaves the checkout line carrying steaks and shrimp using an EBT card, the door is still held open for her; yet notations necessarily embed.

When the U.S. flags lay gleefully undefended, they do not lay unnoticed. When the stars and stripes are controversial, yet the Mexican flag is honored – we are paying attention.

When a school community cannot openly pray, it does not mean the prayerful were absent. When a liar seems to win, it is not without observation. Many – more than the minority would like to admit – know the difference between science and clocks and political agendas.

Cold Anger perceives deception the way a long-term battered spouse absorbs the blow in the hours prior to the pre-planned exit; with purpose.

A shield, or cry of micro-aggression will provide no benefit, nor quarter. Delicate sensibilities are dispatched like a feather in a hurricane. Pushed far enough, decisions are reached.

SissySue, watch this video, if you get upset retreat to your safe space until you calm down... Then I will discuss this further with you...

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/

That article sounds more like you! It's not rooted in fact at all. Everyone knows the middle class has been struggling for years, and they have a perfect right to complain. College education is more expensive than ever. I admit, I did get off topic on this thread and this is the last post I will make on this thread.

In Europe, for example, a college education if free. Medical care is free. We are one of the only developed countries that does not have a national healthcare program. Americans are leaning more and more to the left because they see the light. The extreme right wing GOP are so self-righteous and ignorant they refuse to budge one inch on any issue. They are stuck because they are insistent on being right, even at the expense of the majority as a whole. Middle class Americans have lost their jobs, they have lost their homes, and many of them have become homeless, many times through no fault of their own, but because of the declining economy. And, during a time when Americans need more help than ever in the way of unemployment insurance and government benefits, the right wing wants to cut back or eliminate these benefits!

As far as gun laws go, people have a constitutional right to feel safe in a public place. There has got to be a compromise on gun laws. They are too easy to acquire. One idea would be to have more people checked before entering a public place. There are many ways we can pass more laws regarding guns. The problem is the GOP has blocked practically everything the President has tried to pass. They are not willing to comprise. They are stuck in the past and old thinking. They are not progressive and they are the ones being childish and immature if you ask me. GOP stands for "Grand Old Party". It's old and it's definitely not grand.

you might want to avoid using the word "progressive" as it is not synonymous with progress.

Progressive is actually regressive in practice.