208 Democrats Voted Against The Save Act, Requiring Proof of Citizenship to Vote. Why Do Democrats Want Non-Citizens To Vote?

... But the American PEOPLE don't see things the way
that YOU do, mate. ... They WANT Voter ID. ...

#### Salty Originally Posted by Salty Again

Yeah, man, we've got it here in Texas. But voters weren't allowed to vote on it.

That's the next stage of this grand MAGA expedition, eh?

I think that any election decided by 1% or less is subject to tampering. Also, how about electoral coverage based on population. 15 million illegal aliens can swing 20 electoral votes. California will lose (at this time) 4 congressional seats. How many more would they lose if they didn't count millions of illegals? Originally Posted by Schwarzer Ritter

Gerrymandering has a much higher impact on elections than population size.

The average population size for congressional districts is around 710,000.
One percent is over 7000 voters.

Could fraud affect the outcome. Possibly but not likely. It’s much more likely that increased voter requirements will disenfranchise voters rather than reduce fraud.

I think that any election decided by 1% or less is subject to tampering. Also, how about electoral coverage based on population. 15 million illegal aliens can swing 20 electoral votes. California will lose (at this time) 4 congressional seats. How many more would they lose if they didn't count millions of illegals? Originally Posted by Schwarzer Ritter

Fair enough. I agree that aliens, legal and illegal, shouldn't be counted when they apportion House districts and electoral votes. I think that's what you're saying. But it's possible you're baiting me. Well, what the hell, I'll take the bait!

Are there 15 million undocumented aliens in the USA?

What percentage have registered to vote?

How stupid would a illegal alien have to be to hand law enforcement his name and address on a silver platter by registering to vote?

Why would an illegal alien risk jail time and deportation by voting illegally? There's a lot of downside. What's the upside? Does he get paid? If so, wouldn't the risk reward ratio be a lot better doing something like selling ****s or robbing people?

Now, I'm not saying there aren't people out there stupid enough to do all that. There are at least 98 of them, based on the Heritage database. But few are that dumb.

...can you cite any criminal prosecutions of illegal aliens who voted... Originally Posted by pxmcc

From said database:

...Angelica Maria Francisco, an illegal alien, was charged by federal authorities in Alabama with nine criminal counts in connection with her fraudulent assumption of the identity of a U.S. citizen. Franciso, a Guatemalan, used the citizen’s name, date of birth, and social security number to illegally obtain a passport. In 2016, Francisco used the false identity to register to vote in Alabama. She fraudulently voted in Alabama's 2016 primary election, the 2016 general election, the 2020 primary runoff election, and the 2020 general election...

Do bear in mind, those on the website are convicted cases, as opposed to suspected or potential. Also:

Dis is how dey do it. They exploit cracks, flaws, backdoors and hidden pathways into and through the many systems. This is why the left hates DOGE and by extension Musk Man Bad.

Ironically, it's not partisan, as you see below. Though it does involve sharp folks that have a clue and ask questions (Gasp!), which may well be a reason for the Lefties to despise them, i.e. they can't comprehend it, because of how easy it is to ferret out that which was buried with so much care - IMMHO. Basically, They got caught with their hands in the till.

Billionaire and massive Democratic donor Antonio Gracias dedicated his time to fixing the Social Security Administration

And then the cross reference to voter roles and VIOLA! Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

Now that you have a starting point. Let's have you provide a similar list of a few dozen named souls that would be disenfranchised by the SAVE Act.

From said database:
Do bear in mind, those on the website are convicted cases, as opposed to suspected or potential. Also:

Now that you have a starting point. Let's have you provide a similar list of a few dozen named souls that would be disenfranchised by the SAVE Act. Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

Unfortunately I can’t do that because I don’t know anyone that tracks that kind of data.

I did find this article interesting.

https://www.democracydocket.com/opin...pact-millions/

Throughout my career as a voting rights litigator, I’ve repeatedly seen the impact of tightening ID restrictions on voters. The myth perpetuated by some legislators that “everyone has an ID” is simply not based in reality. I’ve advocated for students who couldn’t vote using their student ID, people who lack transportation to access an ID-issuing office and those who can’t afford to obtain the underlying documents like a birth certificate that they need to secure an ID. During one trial I litigated, we actually had to request special permission from the judge for a witness to even be able to enter the courthouse because they lacked the ID required to do so.
….
Our findings confirmed what we have known for quite some time through our work across the country: voter ID laws are wreaking havoc on the voting process, confusing voters and restricting the right to vote. And these rules harm some communities more than others — effectively distorting our electorate and undermining our democracy.
….
Our findings reveal that millions of Americans — disproportionately from underrepresented groups — lack a current government-issued photo ID. Nearly 21 million people, or just under 9% of voting-age U.S. citizens, do not have a current (non-expired) driver’s license. Another 28.6 million (12%) have a non-expired license, but the license does not have both their current name and address. Citizens of color were 3.7 times more likely to be without an unexpired license or state ID card than white adult citizens.
….
In addition, the survey found that around 34.5 million voting-eligible citizens have an ID but in a form that may cause voting difficulties in states with strict photo ID laws — meaning that their ID does not reflect their current address, name or gender.
….
Age is the single most powerful predictor of whether or not an individual has an unexpired state-issued ID showing current information, with more than 41% of 18–24-year-olds lacking an ID with their current address. Young people are more mobile, change addresses more often, are more gender fluid and have lower incomes — so they naturally struggle the most with keeping their information up to date. Cost restrictions and easy access to ride-share apps have also led to a historic decline in the percentage of 18-30 year olds with a driver’s license.
….
While there are clear inequities in ID access, it’s important to note that Americans of all party affiliations and political ideologies are deeply impacted —directly or indirectly — by voter ID laws. Republican voters may actually be more likely to be kept away from the ballot box due to disproportionately residing in states with strict photo ID laws.

From said database:
Do bear in mind, those on the website are convicted cases, as opposed to suspected or potential. Also:

Now that you have a starting point. Let's have you provide a similar list of a few dozen named souls that would be disenfranchised by the SAVE Act. Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

I've chosen you for a special mission WYID. You're going to climb into the mind of Democrats, and when you crawl back out, you're going to tell us what's causing them to think what they do.

Please choose A, B and/or C below. One or more must be true or our Democrat friends here wouldn't be up in arms.

A. Democrats believe the few immigrants who slip through the cracks and vote will do so disproportionately for Democratic Party candidates. Therefore they want immigrants to vote, whether or not it's illegal.

B. Democrats believe many citizens who would disproportionately vote for Democratic Party candidates are too irresponsible and lazy to get a Real ID (which is now required to fly, among other things) or alternately dig up their birth certificates and register to vote. Therefore, the SAVE Act would hurt Democrats.

C. Many countries require you to carry a national ID card or your passport, both of which identify nationality, while you're out and about. But many Americans are so stupid, lazy, and irresponsible that they haven't gone to the effort to get photo ID's of any type. They have no desire to become functioning members of society. But, by damn, it's the God Given Right for the stupid, lazy and irresponsible among us to vote while expending as little effort as possible.

I ask our Democrat friends, do you really think there are more Democratic leaning voters than Republican leaning voters who fit into categories "B" and "C"? Are you shooting yourselves in the foot? Should Democrats support the SAVE Act? I say yes. Your fellow Democratic Party voters are smarter, more responsible, and more motivated than you think they are.

...But voters weren't allowed to vote on it... Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Leastwise, not without a valid Voter ID!

I've chosen you for a special mission WYID. You're going to climb into the mind of Democrats,... Originally Posted by Tiny

Firstly, that is entirely unconstitutional, i.e. totally violates the Cruel and Unusual punishment clause. Secondly, I would not do it unless you were offering a super deep discount on your, patent pending, Tiny-COVID hazmat outfit, replete with goggles, face shield, KN-95 mask, latex gloves, duct tape and booties

...when you crawl back out, you're going to tell us what's causing them to think what they do... Originally Posted by Tiny

Before I accept this mission, I have one simple question: what is the general survival rate of previous souls have that have attempted such a daunting mission, as I suspect it is microscopically low?!? Seems a lot like getting slimed in a Ghost Buster's movie to me.

I ask our Democrat friends, do you really think there are more Democratic leaning voters than Republican leaning voters who fit into categories "B" and "C"? Are you shooting yourselves in the foot? Should Democrats support the SAVE Act? I say yes. Your fellow Democratic Party voters are smarter, more responsible, and more motivated than you think they are. Originally Posted by Tiny

In my opinion, the only real argument for Voter ID would be if it improved public confidence in the integrity of the voting system. But in the era of Trump and MAGA cult paranoia I really don’t think that’s possible.

In my opinion, the only real argument for Voter ID would be if it improved public confidence in the integrity of the voting system. But in the era of Trump and MAGA cult paranoia I really don’t think that’s possible. Originally Posted by txdot-guy

... I'm surely willing to meet you 'alf-way, mate.
Let's implement Voter ID and find out!

#### Salty

In my opinion, the only real argument for Voter ID would be if it improved public confidence in the integrity of the voting system. But in the era of Trump and MAGA cult paranoia I really don’t think that’s possible. Originally Posted by txdot-guy

Agreed TxDot, that would be the big benefit. With Real ID having become the standard, I believe almost everyone's going to have voter ID by default, regardless of what state he or she lives in.

Firstly, that is entirely unconstitutional, i.e. totally violates the Cruel and Unusual punishment clause. Secondly, I would not do it unless you were offering a super deep discount on your, patent pending, Tiny-COVID hazmat outfit, replete with goggles, face shield, KN-95 mask, latex gloves, duct tape and booties Before I accept this mission, I have one simple question: what is the general survival rate of previous souls have that have attempted such a daunting mission, as I suspect it is microscopically low?!? Seems a lot like getting slimed in a Ghost Buster's movie to me. Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

ROTLMAO! I'm not sure about whether I should take you up on that. If you had the hazmat outfit, you'd become irresistible to women. You'd spend all day and night banging and become worthless to society.

...ROTLMAO! I'm not sure about whether I should take you up on that. If you had the hazmat outfit, you'd become irresistible to women. You'd spend all day and night banging and become worthless to society. Originally Posted by Tiny

I knew it was a suicide mission! I'm already one of those things above. In my defense, I didn't ask ya to toss in AOC for free.

But I do agree that if ya want to FO, then FA, instead of being scared of fake straw-personages. Try it... You'll like it...