Occupy Wall Street

Obama would be wise to stay far away from this crowd...their politics (extreme socialism) will only hurt Obama in the 2012 election.

I think their biggest problem is they have a lot of complaints, some of which I agree with, but no reasonable solutions.

Their solutions (the ones I have heard) are more govenrment spending, more taxpayer bailouts, more unionization and union power, more, more, more...I don't hear any of them saying we need less government, less spending, less regulations.

One of their big demands is forgiveness of student loan debt.

I think their biggest problem is they have a lot of complaints, some of which I agree with, but no reasonable solutions. Originally Posted by Laz

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"We need to just take it from them!

Their solutions (the ones I have heard) are more govenrment spending, more taxpayer bailouts, more unionization and union power, more, more, more...I don't hear any of them saying we need less government, less spending, less regulations.

One of their big demands is forgiveness of student loan debt. Originally Posted by Whirlaway

As i said i am not uncritical either, but you are taking things to literally. Its not so much about what these protestors want (hello? write a letter to santa...) but what has happened and the impact it had on people`s life. I still think to degrade these people is not leading anywhere. We - of all people - should at least strive for consense and an intellectual debate.

and no - they do not want to spend more money. Hello? The most expensive is still US military and who ? Bush ? wasted too much money already, so - i mean this whining about spending money, oh come on!. That is not the point either!
I don`t understand why all political debates here on eccie or in the USA in general have to always turn out to be a big f-ing PANDEMONIUM PARTY ?? Is it not possible to discuss something without badmouthing someone. I have to admit the stronges point i had in criticising the OWS movement was that - now these middle class people - who previously benefitted from the system see how it fails. The criticism was a kind of hypocrisy statement as of saying "oh NOW you find it problematic because you got screwed over" Its logical for anyone who has any idea of economy that systems have ups and downs. Recession comes, no matter what kind of system you support. AND these bankers have been aware of that. They fooled people. Intentionally . So for me its much rather the point of WHO is protesting instead of THE FACT that the movement takes place. Its as if escorts scream "Occupy wives" because all of a sudden no one wanted their services anymore :-)))) and then they start to realize what`s really going on :-))))...

here is an interesting (for me) article who points out all these misunderstandings some of you seem to have:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...ating-20111025

"FREE MONEY. Ordinary people have to borrow their money at market rates. Lloyd Blankfein and Jamie Dimon get billions of dollars for free, from the Federal Reserve. They borrow at zero and lend the same money back to the government at two or three percent, a valuable public service otherwise known as "standing in the middle and taking a gigantic cut when the government decides to lend money to itself."

Or the banks borrow billions at zero and lend mortgages to us at four percent, or credit cards at twenty or twenty-five percent. This is essentially an official government license to be rich, handed out at the expense of prudent ordinary citizens, who now no longer receive much interest on their CDs or other saved income. It is virtually impossible to not make money in banking when you have unlimited access to free money, especially when the government keeps buying its own cash back from you at market rates.

Your average chimpanzee couldn't fuck up that business plan, which makes it all the more incredible that most of the too-big-to-fail banks are nonetheless still functionally insolvent, and dependent upon bailouts and phony accounting to stay above water. Where do the protesters go to sign up for their interest-free billion-dollar loans?

CREDIT AMNESTY. If you or I miss a $7 payment on a Gap card or, heaven forbid, a mortgage payment, you can forget about the great computer in the sky ever overlooking your mistake. But serial financial fuckups like Citigroup and Bank of America overextended themselves by the hundreds of billions and pumped trillions of dollars of deadly leverage into the system -- and got rewarded with things like the Temporary Liquidity Guarantee Program, an FDIC plan that allowed irresponsible banks to borrow against the government's credit rating.

The 2008 crash, of course, birthed a whole generation of new bailout schemes. Banks placed billions in bets with AIG and should have lost their shirts when the firm went under -- AIG went under, after all, in large part because of all the huge mortgage bets the banks laid with the firm -- but instead got the state to pony up $180 billion or so to rescue the banks from their own bad decisions.

This sort of thing seems to happen every time the banks do something dumb with their money.

When was the last time the government stepped into help you "avoid losses you might otherwise suffer?" But that's the reality we live in. When Joe Homeowner bought too much house, essentially betting that home prices would go up, and losing his bet when they dropped, he was an irresponsible putz who shouldn’t whine about being put on the street.

But when banks bet billions on a firm like AIG that was heavily invested in mortgages, they were making the same bet that Joe Homeowner made, leaving themselves hugely exposed to a sudden drop in home prices. But instead of being asked to "suck it in and cope" when that bet failed, the banks instead went straight to Washington for a bailout -- and got it.

GET OUT OF JAIL FREE.

Millions of people have been foreclosed upon in the last three years. In most all of those foreclosures, a regional law enforcement office -- typically a sheriff's office -- was awarded fees by the court as part of the foreclosure settlement, settlements which of course were often rubber-stamped by a judge despite mountains of perjurious robosigned evidence.

That means that every single time a bank kicked someone out of his home, a local police department got a cut. Local sheriff's offices also get cuts of almost all credit card judgments, and other bank settlements. If you're wondering how it is that so many regional police departments have the money for fancy new vehicles and SWAT teams and other accoutrements, this is one of your answers.

The point being: if you miss a few home payments, you have a very high likelihood of colliding with a police officer in the near future. But if you defraud a pair of European banks out of a billion dollars -- that's a billion, with a b -- you will never be arrested, never see a policeman, never see the inside of a jail cell.

Your settlement will be worked out not with armed police, but with regulators in suits who used to work for your company or one like it. And you'll have, defending you, a former head of that regulator's agency. In the end, a fine will be paid to the government, but it won't come out of your pocket personally; it will be paid by your company's shareholders. And there will be no admission of criminal wrongdoing.


Can anyone imagine a common thief being caught by police and sentenced to pay back half of what he took? Just one low-ranking individual in that case was charged (case pending), and no individual had to reach into his pocket to help cover the fine. The settlement Goldman paid to to the government was about 1/24th of what Goldman received from the government just in the AIG bailout. And that was the toughest "punishment" the government dished out to a bank in the wake of 2008.

The point being: we have a massive police force in America that outside of lower Manhattan prosecutes crime and imprisons citizens with record-setting, factory-level efficiency, eclipsing the incarceration rates of most of history's more notorious police states and communist countries.

But the bankers on Wall Street don't live in that heavily-policed country. There are maybe 1000 SEC agents policing that sector of the economy, plus a handful of FBI agents. There are nearly that many police officers stationed around the polite crowd at Zucotti park.

These inequities are what drive the OWS protests. People don't want handouts. It's not a class uprising and they don't want civil war -- they want just the opposite. They want everyone to live in the same country, and live by the same rules. It's amazing that some people think that that's asking a lot"

and here is a video i do like "Slavoij Zizek - We are the awakening"

http://vimeo.com/30367180


And i don`t want to be seen as Pro OWS just because i make some points for it. I think some of the people who are for it, are hypocrits, because the really poor don`t even get credits. And can`t buy a lot of houses. So i see it as a middle class problem. and i have issues with middle class hypocrisy :-). Having money to buy houses and then whine ... ahm yeah. Having parents financing your education and then whine, doesn`t fly with me either, but that is USA :-))

But - well, who on this platform and in the hookerworld actually isn`t a hypocrite. So, They still make good points... I had fights with some of my friends who are for it, and some who are against it. I am in the middle. I see its making good points , but as some of you said, the agendas and the outcome or solution is not there. I will bring literature later on to say why this happens in all social movements. My opinion is - if you don`t actively support the OWS people at least don`t stand in their way or shit on them (Police is doing so already, so no need on eccie to put down other humans for their agendas and act as if you have to fear for your f-ing life because some people have different opinions - and rightfully so!!) . I think after all, we are all spoiled rotten, because if some lousy discussion about common sense and ethics (that is what these people mostly want) can drive to such statements on eccie, i wonder where you guys would be if some REAL problems knocked on your door? Heartattack? And call on the SWAT for some of these problems just SHOWS how REAL their demands are. Reminds me of China, frankly speaking! So someone must feel really threatened....
I always say the stronger the measurements against something the more prevalent an issue.

meow :-) ciao for now.

...I still think to degrade these people is not leading anywhere. We - of all people - should at least strive for consense and an intellectual debate. ... Originally Posted by ninasastri

I think they degrade themselves and this looks like a fine example of "intellectual debate." Most don't appear to have a clue. They just think they are making an impact. The only impact they are making is proving they are not who most americans identify with.

That is too funny!

. . . Now I am going to have to do a little research and confirm those numbers!

"We need to just take it from them!


Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

What's the problem, Munch? I don't like racism. And there is no way in hell I would support law enforcement shooting a peaceful demonstrating veteran.

I don't support OWS, but I also don't support efforts to shut them down. If they get violent first, LE needs to use only the force required to restore order. If LE gets violent first, we are in trouble. Then we have Kent State on a greater scale.

OWS has the right to assemble, and petition the government. I have the right to peacefully disagree.

Not sure what your point was, Munch. Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

My point was I was pissed off that a hooker, of all people, would actually quote a site or any person associated with a site like townhall. A site that if she gave any hint of her "profession" they would tear her a hole that would be of no use to anyone but Peter North.

The occupiers are people who feel they need to act on a nameless rage that is starting to build in a large number of Americans. With no way to articulate it, they will never come across as anything but a bunch of wackos or will be unable to offer a concise explanation of what they feel.

To me and the portion of the rage I can feel myself, the answer is simple. Spend 2 straight days on townhall.

The "rage" I feel is for people who would trash our country for their own political ends, so that they can rule the ashes of our nation while blaming someone else for the fire. Do democrats or liberals have all the answers? Of course not. Some of their ideas are moronic and pie in the skyish. But at least they are continuing to offer some new thoughts. It's called brainstorming in the business word. You write them all down and go through them discarding ones that won't work for whatever reason. The person that submitted the idea is seldom an expressed reason for dismissing that idea. Or because it came from those assholes in marketing (or any other bullshit group description-just using marketing for an example). You know, business leaders of the world use this approach. Governments don’t.
But now, hardcore conservatives offer no ideas. They ignore ideas because of their origin. They claim only the same ideas they have pushed for the last 8 years will work. They see no reason to work with democrats because they think they will inherit the ruins of our country because their own agenda comes before that of America. Their bigotry and racism is so manifest in their actions towards our President and their contempt for everyday Americans so blatant that it stirs my nameless rage.

Then add some like-minded police officers that fire teargas canisters (The "Comedian" in the movie "Watchmen") at the front ranks of a demonstration of noisy-but-harmless odd folk. 90% of cops are true heroes of our society. They should not tolerate the other 10% in their ranks.

What does this have to do with you personally? Nothing at all. Your post was just the tallest tree in the woods during my personal internal lightning storm.


My discharge was more meant for someone who makes a living receiving discharges.

My apologies for zapping you.

PS The veteran is in stable condition now.

I think they degrade themselves and this looks like a fine example of "intellectual debate." Most don't appear to have a clue. They just think they are making an impact. The only impact they are making is proving they are not who most americans identify with. Originally Posted by DFW5Traveler

Ever heard of paid troublemakers?
They look like. There are people out there - the opposition - who pays such other people to do exactly such things. To make them look stupid and like vandalizers. That is all politics, so don`t let yourself be blinded

[B][COLOR=royalblue][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]My point was I was pissed off that a hooker, of all people, would actually quote a site or any person associated with a site like townhall. A site that if she gave any hint of her "profession" they would tear her a hole that would be of no use to anyone but Peter North. Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

Exactly my point as well. It`s hilarious. There is so much hypocrisy on either side of the movements :-). But nevertheless i am more supportive of the PRO OWS arguments, because what could someone possible and rationally say against their motives? I mean they want equal punishment for all, what`s so bad about that? They want risk management in banking? Really bad as well, right? I mean .... MUMMY DEAREST --- what a PANDEMONIUM PARTY :-))).

That is too funny!

. . . Now I am going to have to do a little research and confirm those numbers!
Originally Posted by Fast Gunn

that depends if they used 8 or 9 planets and/or 100+ dwarf planets outside the 8/9 planets

Exactly my point as well. It`s hilarious. There is so much hypocrisy on either side of the movements :-). But nevertheless i am more supportive of the PRO OWS arguments, because what could someone possible and rationally say against their motives? I mean they want equal punishment for all, what`s so bad about that? They want risk management in banking? Really bad as well, right? I mean .... MUMMY DEAREST --- what a PANDEMONIUM PARTY :-))). Originally Posted by ninasastri

My son works at the Juilliard School. Wish I was there visiting that coast instead of the Left coast. The things I could do with my per diem and you.

My son works at the Juilliard School. Wish I was there visiting that coast instead of the Left coast. The things I could do with my per diem and you. Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

Its difficult to have all kinds of different friends in private like i do, i always have been proud of the fact that i attract and am friends with many kinds of people and can value some of their opinions to a point (as they value mine),
but
yesterday i had a bad bad shitstorm on my facebook wall between my lover and another friend who are against (my lover) and pro (my friend) OWS, short before they called each other dick and whatnot. Yikes, i just asked for respectfully agreing to disagree. Was the best i could come up with

But yet again, i don`t understand escorts who do that job because probably they are not able to have the kind of education they want to pursue because they don`t come from middle class or have parents supporting them or are falling into the "loan-pay back debts after studying" category bashing OWS for the social motives . Meow. Its like stabbing yourself in the back twice.
Well there are escorts out there who come from middle class , have functioning families as well, but these - mostly - are the ones that are the most hypocrites about everything , since they only have a "luxury" problem for which they resort to escorting. I have seen the most arrogant of escorts to be these ones.