Ward and June Cleaver

TTH how could you say you've understood where I'm coming from and then say I'm wrong and then state some of the things I stated?

I said women can be POTUS, women can work any job in the workforce (except male stripper, male escort, or male model/actor), and women should get paid the same for it and do in most cases. And I always wanted my daughters to become lawyers, doctors, etc and go to a fine college and get a graduates degree. But, if they don't want a career - the GREAT thing about being a WOMAN is they DON'T have to have a career - they have CHOICES!!!!
I think women that try to have it all, can. But, it puts a strain on their marriage (emasculates the man) and the children (who are raised by nannies and day care and never see their mothers).
If my daughters wanted a career, great. If they wanted to be a stay at home mom, great. But, if they only want to prove they can do the same job as a man or prove that they are equal to a man; then I raised them wrong. Do it 'cause you love it, not because you have something to prove or a need to compete with a man!

TTH,

. There is no real way around the fact that since God is no longer in school,


. . Originally Posted by LonesomeDove

God wasn't in my science class and I did not need him to learn how to respect myself and others. I do think he can be a great teacher in a philosophy class. Blaming everything on others not believing as you is a typical conserative slight of hand.

In addition to the foregoing Atheism is the idea that it has been a leading issue in the breakdown of the American home and family structure due to its pernicious nature. . Originally Posted by LonesomeDove

''pernicious nature''...you have no clue as to what you are talking about. But as you said we are all entitled to our own opinion. You can even believe the earth is only 6 thousand years old. That opinion plays well in the Sara Palin crowd.

** NOTE **
I realize what this board is meant for and what I just posted is going to upset some but that is life so get over it and yourself. You don't like what I posted then just move along to the next post, or thread, that makes you feel better. Originally Posted by LonesomeDove

Why would it upset anyone? You can believe any cock and bull thing you want. Just don't try and shove it up my ass. State beliefs as such.

I am just more facts based. So until such time as you provide evidence of your stated beliefs, they are just that.

Do you tell them that they should be dependent on men and not have economic freedom and independence? And if so, how do you look at yourself in the mirror in the morning? Should your daughter find herself in an unhappy relationship and want to leave, don't you want her to have the ability to say "Fuck you, I'm out of here," and pick up her shit and go and live in a style to which she has become accustomed on her own income? Go buy a house, have a new car every few years, hire a nanny for the kids so she can have a profession, etc. without having to have someone else pay for it? I'm really curious what some of you tell your female children they should aspire to? Originally Posted by TexTushHog

Just because a man supports a woman financially doesn't make her his prisoner or slave. Many women have left husbands that paid all the bills and survived. Yes, it would be a start from scratch - starting over with nothing. But, before my daughter married I would encourage her to be sure she understands what she is doing and it is a choice she has to live with. Also, I would encourage her to have a stash put away for just such a situation.

Being a mommy is the best choice for me and I would do whatever it took to not have to have a daycare raise my child. That is one of the reasons I am in this line of work vs a 9 to 5 corporate job; so I can have free time to spend RAISING my creations.

If I were married, I would not have to work. Let my man bring home the bacon, i'll stay home and fry it up in the pan. To me it is like having a plow horse and a large field. Sure, I could pull the plow myself and let the horse graze, but I would rather put the horse to work.

And for some of the guys posting here, I have a question. Do you have daughters? Do you tell them that they should be dependent on men and not have economic freedom and independence? Originally Posted by TexTushHog

Good question....as you have pointed out TTH, CHOICE is the correct answer. You multiply those choices by education, hard work and self reliance. I find it hard to believe that anyone would argue otherwise.

Good question....as you have pointed out TTH, CHOICE is the correct answer. You multiply those choices by education, hard work and self reliance. I find it hard to believe that anyone would argue otherwise. Originally Posted by WTF

Word







Wait a minute, did I just agree with WTF? Aw sh*t, now Hell will freeze over.

Wait a minute, did I just agree with WTF. Aw sh*t, now Hell will freeze over. Originally Posted by Nicolette Bordeauxva

Well then some of us just might pack our ski clothes instead of our bathing suits.

And for some of the guys posting here, I have a question. Do you have daughters? Do you tell them that they should be dependent on men and not have economic freedom and independence? And if so, how do you look at yourself in the mirror in the morning? Should your daughter find herself in an unhappy relationship and want to leave, don't you want her to have the ability to say "Fuck you, I'm out of here," and pick up her shit and go and live in a style to which she has become accustomed on her own income? Go buy a house, have a new car every few years, hire a nanny for the kids so she can have a profession, etc. without having to have someone else pay for it? I'm really curious what some of you tell your female children they should aspire to? Originally Posted by TexTushHog

Do I have a daughter?...Well, yes I do...all growed up too.

Your questions that follow are so myopic as to be...well, really just sad.

Financial independence and service to one's mate are not mutually exclusive. It may take planning and it may take thought (something it would appear that you, as a father, have failed to do), but it is quite doable. I can assure you that my daughter is financially independent...and in a position to remain so. However, she also has had the upbringing to know that, while she is not required to do so, the best relationships (at least IMHO) are fostered where the female looks to the male as the head of the household and the male looks to the female as the princess in his life.

I gave my daughter all kinds of options. An education...the resources with which to live quite nicely...and the self confidence to choose whatever direction she wanted. My mirror looks just fine. If your daughter is having to sacrifice some of those options today?...well, maybe the mirror can tell you who to blame.

Good Lord, you both are saying the same thing.

We all agree, education is the key. It gives one options.

Everything else is just opinion on what lifestyle makes one happiest. Good luck with telling another on what will make them happiest. Though I'm sure we will here shortly what each thinks is best for their daughter. The key you two are missing is education.

Good Lord, you both are saying the same thing.

We all agree, education is the key. It gives one options.

Everything else is just opinion on what lifestyle makes one happiest. Good luck with telling another on what will make them happiest. Though I'm sure we will here shortly what each thinks is best for their daughter. The key you two are missing is education. Originally Posted by WTF

That's a bit like saying the key to good house is the foundation. While there really can't be a good house without a good foundation...without the walls and the roof and the furnishings...it's just a hunk of cement.

As the old saying goes...a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. It takes many things to make a whole person. Education is one of them...but it is no more key than many of the others.

"Natural ability without education has more often raised a man to glory and virtue than education without natural ability."
Marcus Aurelius.

That's a bit like saying the key to good house is the foundation. While there really can't be a good house without a good foundation...without the walls and the roof and the furnishings...it's just a hunk of cement.

. Originally Posted by Rudyard K

No that is like saying a Contemporary house is no less a house than a Tuscany house. You prefer one type, TTH another. It is a matter of taste once CHOICE is the mainstay in the equation.

Once you have established a good foundation it is a given the builder of one's home is capable enough to build a sturdy house.

I might add that a woman with extra good plumbing adds a bit extra to my house!

TTH,
.
There is no real way around the fact that since God is no longer in school.. Originally Posted by LonesomeDove

God wasn't in my science class and I did not need him to learn how to respect myself and others. I do think he can be a great teacher in a philosophy class. Blaming everything on others not believing as you is a typical conserative slight of hand. Originally Posted by WTF

LOL! You really sure about that WTF? Are you really of the belief that you are so independent and don't need anything other than your Klingon guile to get you through this life? Are you really sure that God did not give you science to begin with because if you do think that then.... well, you get the idea. Hubris, or pride, is a real nasty thing.

Moving on, re-read what I wrote WTF because you obviously are having trouble in comprehending the written word since in no way am I blaming everything on a issue that is just one part of the whole. As a matter of fact, I did not present my world view to you in the first place rather you mistook the position I have as an incorrectly interpreted limited personal belief which is, of course, attributable to the afore mentioned reading issues. The removal of God like I have described is just one aspect of a very involved tapestry that we collectively call the destruction of the American Family and how the family goes so does the country. I will point out that what you just wrote is a very typical, and lame, liberal reproach when they have nothing of value as a counter to an argument.

However, I do believe that what you wrote about God not being in your science class is laughable while very sad because it shows an awful lot of hubris. I know He was in my science classes where I studied Physics, Biology, Geology and Psychology as well as Astronomy. Hmm, maybe I am alone in that respect but I don't think so.

In addition to the foregoing Atheism is the idea that it has been a leading issue in the breakdown of the American home and family structure due to its pernicious nature. . Originally Posted by LonesomeDove

''pernicious nature''...you have no clue as to what you are talking about. But as you said we are all entitled to our own opinion. You can even believe the earth is only 6 thousand years old. That opinion plays well in the Sara Palin crowd. Originally Posted by WTF

Ahh, I do believe the antagonist protests too much. Actually I have never believed the Earth was six thousand years old and not even educated scholars who know how to correctly read The Bible think that. However, I will point out that it is very apparent that the one who is without a clue is you WTF since you have taken what I wrote completely out of context and written more things that are not relevant to that quoted item. What I wrote, in the context of the original idea, is relevant notwithstanding your disagreement with my position.

** NOTE **
I realize what this board is meant for and what I just posted is going to upset some but that is life so get over it and yourself. You don't like what I posted then just move along to the next post, or thread, that makes you feel better. Originally Posted by LonesomeDove

Why would it upset anyone? You can believe any cock and bull thing you want. Just don't try and shove it up my ass. State beliefs as such.

I am just more facts based. So until such time as you provide evidence of your stated beliefs, they are just that. Originally Posted by WTF

If you are fact based then that is fine but there are things that transcend facts and you will learn that eventually. I wasn’t aware we were discussing what cock and bull thing you wanted to believe since I was discussing what roles and responsibilities men and women have as well as how those characteristics have been influenced in a way such that folks have lost what they once had as well as their way in our society.

If you want evidence of what I have written then open your eyes and your mind to the great big world around you. You can see what you like as well as you can believe what you want. Point is, you are upset since your post shows someone who has gone off on another without a reasonable expostulation that is cohesive or on target with the material being discussed hence the reason I wrote what I did.

Now do you want it with lube or dry?

Side note:
I suggest you spend just a tad bit more time in learning how to organize your critical thinking before you commit those thoughts to a written form. In other words, you suck at critical writing. Didn’t you learn how to properly quote someone? If you did then I am betting your teacher told you not to tell anyone that you were their student.

Just because a man supports a woman financially doesn't make her his prisoner or slave. Many women have left husbands that paid all the bills and survived. Yes, it would be a start from scratch - starting over with nothing. But, before my daughter married I would encourage her to be sure she understands what she is doing and it is a choice she has to live with. Also, I would encourage her to have a stash put away for just such a situation.

Being a mommy is the best choice for me and I would do whatever it took to not have to have a daycare raise my child. That is one of the reasons I am in this line of work vs a 9 to 5 corporate job; so I can have free time to spend RAISING my creations.

If I were married, I would not have to work. Let my man bring home the bacon, i'll stay home and fry it up in the pan. To me it is like having a plow horse and a large field. Sure, I could pull the plow myself and let the horse graze, but I would rather put the horse to work. Originally Posted by Nicolette Bordeauxva

The overall gist of what Colette posted are what my points way back alluded to as well. My ex and I made a chocie when my daughter was an infant that my ex would not work and would be home for our child. That was the best thing either of us could have done but like I have pointed out, not everybody thinks like that since a great deal of people are more concerned with their material wealth rather than their Spriritual or family health.

Once you have established a good foundation it is a given the builder of one's home is capable enough to build a sturdy house. Originally Posted by WTF

And the foundation I would prefer to build upon is self confidence and a good attitude.

I can't think of anyone I know that is successful and happy who doesn't have self confidence and a good attitude. I know several who don't have an education. And I know several educated people who are useless as teats on a boar hog.

I was simply addressing your comment that we were saying the same thing and keying it to education. At least for me...you missed it.

LOL! You really sure about that WTF? Are you really of the belief that you are so independent and don't need anything other than your Klingon guile to get you through this life? Are you really sure that God did not give you science to begin with because if you do think that then.... well, you get the idea. Hubris, or pride, is a real nasty thing.
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However, I do believe that what you wrote about God not being in your science class is laughable while very sad because it shows an awful lot of hubris. I know He was in my science classes where I studied Physics, Biology, Geology and Psychology as well as Astronomy. Hmm, maybe I am alone in that respect but I don't think so.
.............................a nd so on Originally Posted by LonesomeDove

solzenitsyn said as he was imprisoned in a siberian gulag...that he concentrated on understanding how it came to be..the evilness of the soviet union...and then it came to him... these men had no fear of God