Reese's post here got me thinking. Actually, I had a 4 page dissertation typed before I realized how much of a hijack I was doing.
http://www.eccie.net/showpost.php?p=...8&postcount=13
I think it would be real interesting if someone was to put some numbers together on what it costs to be a provider. I realize no lady wants to do this, because to publically post it would (1) show how many guys she sees a day, (2) show how many guys she turns down a day, (3) show LE and the IRS what they could ding that particular provider for, and (4) some jack ass would find something to insult the lady about.
But think about it:
Expenses
Room (hotel, apartment, home, car, RV, street corner)
Advertising (BP, CL, P411, Street Corner, Etc.)
Communications Equipment - PC, Telephone, red lamp to put in the light post out front)
Clothing (some of those clothes really don't have any other purpose that attracting customers)
Supplies: Condoms, lubrication, toys, sheets, towels, bottled water, soaps, shampoo, etc.
Hair/makeup/nails/dental/bikini wax, general grooming
gasoline/car/transportation
Labor
Time creating advertising
Time answering emails, PMs, etc.
Time listening to voicemails
Time changing bedding from last overwieght sweaty client
Time showering, cleaning up personally
time actually in BCD
Time waiting on clients to show up
time traveling to & from meeting place
time attending social functions so you stay in good graces of guys here
time screwing some mod for free so he takes care of you (OK, that one was just to see if anyone was actually reading this crap)
I would venture to say that the actual net dollars per hour for a lot of ladies falls pretty low.
- guest043013-2
- 07-03-2011, 03:57 PM
- Still Looking
- 07-03-2011, 05:08 PM
I think its a lot simpler than that! Its Time & Money!
- ~Ze~
- 07-03-2011, 05:28 PM
Tiger- what you have laid out is just the MINIMUM...
You haven't put into consideration any childcare or pet care.
And all that come's out of pocket before we see a dime for our goals/savings and life expenses.
You haven't put into consideration any childcare or pet care.
And all that come's out of pocket before we see a dime for our goals/savings and life expenses.
- Guest062912
- 07-03-2011, 05:50 PM
I'm game. As far as expenses and labor, here's somewhat of an idea of mine. Keep in mind my donation and the fact that I am not a high volume girl. I've averaged about 25 appointments per month the past three months, excluding June, since I was off that month. I only get to work 3 weeks a month, since I take that special week off.
Expenses:
Hotel rooms: $65-$120/night (taxes and fees included). Let's say average $95/night. Since I'm traveling full time now, I have to get a hotel room every night, whether I get an appt that day or not, plus I have to get an extended stay room for the week I'm off, which a half-decent one will cost about $400/week or more. So that's almost $2600 in hotel expenses alone. 9 appointments just to pay for a place to work and sleep.
Travel: Traveling full-time, it's easy to log hundreds and hundreds of miles in a month. My next trip is to Memphis and Nashville. Were I not having to take that next week off, I would continue my trip outward from there. That's about 650 miles, and lets add another 50 just for driving around the cities, going to get supplies, going out to eat, etc etc. And that's not even a full week's trip. But let's just say it is. Plus, add another, oh, 50 miles for my week off. 2000 miles/mo in my truck, which averages 20 MPG, and with gas at about $3.50/gallon, that's almost $350 in gas. Not to mention wear and tear on my truck, all my maintenance costs, etc. I'd say over the past 3 months (which admittedly have been particularly bad for my poor truck) I've spent about $400/mo on maintenance. Total: $750
Food: Let's just make this one easy and say I spend $7/meal, three times a day. I aimed a little low, because sometimes I get free breakfast at the hotels (though most 4 star hotels I've stayed at do not offer free breakfast) and sometimes I eat fast food, or even just get to grocery shop. Remember, I'm on the road, and I don't have a fridge to store groceries. If I end up eating at restaurants a lot, this number can go up significantly. So, $21/day, 30 days a month. Total: $630
Supplies: I'm lumping ALL of my work supplies together. Sexy dresses, condoms, candles, lotion, lube, panties, shoes, baby wipes, mouthwash, mints, shower gel, make up (yes, I consider this a work expense, because frankly, I don't wear much make up very often when I'm not working).. and the list goes on. I would say I spend somewhere between $150-$200/mo on supplies. Let's average that. Total: $175
Self Maintenance: Fact is, I have to be as flawless as possible for you guys. I know some of you will say that for you I don't need mani-pedis and hair care and all of that, but the fact is, most of you DO expect such self care from us. If I answer the door without looking my best, and the next lady DOES look her best, it's not hard to figure out who you might prefer to see. Anyway, hair color and cut = $150 tip included. Mani-Pedi and eyebrow wax every two weeks = $60 each trip, tip included. Keep in mind, I go to cheapish places, that number can be higher if the lady likes expensive treatment. Also, I have to get expensive facial washes and moisturizers and such to avoid break outs, lotion, hair spray/gel, etc etc that can easily cost me $100/mo in all. I'm also getting laser hair removal for $700 and I got cosmetic dentistry recently which was about $3000 including travel expenses, PLUS it cost me a month off work. But since those are one time things, we won't include them in the total. Personally, I do not get massages, but many ladies do, and I probably should, so I'm saving a bit of money there. I also don't tan, get facials, leg/lip/bikini waxing, or a number of other things that other ladies might. Adding in a fraction of less frequent self-maintenance things (brazillian blowouts, for example)... Total: $400/mo
I'll stop here with expenses. If you took my 25 appts a month and multiplied that by my 1 hour rate (which is the majority of my appointments) you came up with a seemingly very cushy number. We've gone through 2/3 of that already, and this is not in any way how much I have to spend to live, simply to work and eat and sleep. I also have a phone bill, a storage room bill, a dog to support (and a petsitter to pay while I'm traveling), car insurance, etc etc etc. I know it seems like we as providers should be living the high life and have thousands to save a month, but that's simply not reality.
Labor:
Now, for those of you who are like "But Traci, that's still a pretty good damn living for only working 25 hours a month." The fact is, I work WAY more than 25 hours a month. Here's a basic breakdown of my labor:
Advertising/Website maintenance: This I pay someone for, but at one time, I did do it myself (and not nearly as well, I might add). At that time, I'd say I averaged about an hour a day on these things.
Emails/Phone Calls/Screening: Time. Consuming. You can believe that I spend around 3-5 hours a day answering emails and making/receiving phone calls or text messages, and researching and screening clients. Easy. Sometimes more. I know you're sitting there thinking "But you only average 1 or 2 appointments a day, how could you possibly spend that much time on client communication and screening?!" Well, there are usually many more than one or two phone calls and email exchanges per client/per appointment that walks through my door. Not to mention most guys do not send screening information in their first message, and do not send ALL of their screening info in the second or third, even. Also, a majority of guys that contact me are time-wasters that will never come see me. Then I have to track down ladies who may or may not get back to me, ask for replacement references for those who didn't, answer questions, maintain a little flirtation (not too much, please), and so on.
Getting ready: 2 1/2 hours a day, initially. Shower, shave, hair, makeup, get dressed, get room ready. If I have a second appointment, 1 hour to bathe, freshen up, and get the room ready again. Also, another half hour to clean up after appointment, if I don't have another one coming.
Appointment: If it's a one hour appointment, I'm actually probably spending 75 minutes here. A few minutes waiting for you to arrive, and then most gents do not actually leave within the hour, but maybe 5 or 10 past. And those are the respectful ones.
I'd say even on days when I only have one appointment, I'm easily spending 6 hours on work. And for those of you that did the math and thought "That's still a pretty good hourly wage," please see the expenses section.
This post is only meant to reflect MY expenses/labor. Another lady's may be very, very different from mine. Also, this post is in no way meant to be all inclusive, just sort of a general idea of what it's like and some food for thought. Keep in mind, I don't have kids, and MANY ladies do. Imagine adding the cost of a supporting a whole other person or two to this mix. Jeez.
And for the record, time spent writing this post... 25 minutes.
Expenses:
Hotel rooms: $65-$120/night (taxes and fees included). Let's say average $95/night. Since I'm traveling full time now, I have to get a hotel room every night, whether I get an appt that day or not, plus I have to get an extended stay room for the week I'm off, which a half-decent one will cost about $400/week or more. So that's almost $2600 in hotel expenses alone. 9 appointments just to pay for a place to work and sleep.
Travel: Traveling full-time, it's easy to log hundreds and hundreds of miles in a month. My next trip is to Memphis and Nashville. Were I not having to take that next week off, I would continue my trip outward from there. That's about 650 miles, and lets add another 50 just for driving around the cities, going to get supplies, going out to eat, etc etc. And that's not even a full week's trip. But let's just say it is. Plus, add another, oh, 50 miles for my week off. 2000 miles/mo in my truck, which averages 20 MPG, and with gas at about $3.50/gallon, that's almost $350 in gas. Not to mention wear and tear on my truck, all my maintenance costs, etc. I'd say over the past 3 months (which admittedly have been particularly bad for my poor truck) I've spent about $400/mo on maintenance. Total: $750
Food: Let's just make this one easy and say I spend $7/meal, three times a day. I aimed a little low, because sometimes I get free breakfast at the hotels (though most 4 star hotels I've stayed at do not offer free breakfast) and sometimes I eat fast food, or even just get to grocery shop. Remember, I'm on the road, and I don't have a fridge to store groceries. If I end up eating at restaurants a lot, this number can go up significantly. So, $21/day, 30 days a month. Total: $630
Supplies: I'm lumping ALL of my work supplies together. Sexy dresses, condoms, candles, lotion, lube, panties, shoes, baby wipes, mouthwash, mints, shower gel, make up (yes, I consider this a work expense, because frankly, I don't wear much make up very often when I'm not working).. and the list goes on. I would say I spend somewhere between $150-$200/mo on supplies. Let's average that. Total: $175
Self Maintenance: Fact is, I have to be as flawless as possible for you guys. I know some of you will say that for you I don't need mani-pedis and hair care and all of that, but the fact is, most of you DO expect such self care from us. If I answer the door without looking my best, and the next lady DOES look her best, it's not hard to figure out who you might prefer to see. Anyway, hair color and cut = $150 tip included. Mani-Pedi and eyebrow wax every two weeks = $60 each trip, tip included. Keep in mind, I go to cheapish places, that number can be higher if the lady likes expensive treatment. Also, I have to get expensive facial washes and moisturizers and such to avoid break outs, lotion, hair spray/gel, etc etc that can easily cost me $100/mo in all. I'm also getting laser hair removal for $700 and I got cosmetic dentistry recently which was about $3000 including travel expenses, PLUS it cost me a month off work. But since those are one time things, we won't include them in the total. Personally, I do not get massages, but many ladies do, and I probably should, so I'm saving a bit of money there. I also don't tan, get facials, leg/lip/bikini waxing, or a number of other things that other ladies might. Adding in a fraction of less frequent self-maintenance things (brazillian blowouts, for example)... Total: $400/mo
I'll stop here with expenses. If you took my 25 appts a month and multiplied that by my 1 hour rate (which is the majority of my appointments) you came up with a seemingly very cushy number. We've gone through 2/3 of that already, and this is not in any way how much I have to spend to live, simply to work and eat and sleep. I also have a phone bill, a storage room bill, a dog to support (and a petsitter to pay while I'm traveling), car insurance, etc etc etc. I know it seems like we as providers should be living the high life and have thousands to save a month, but that's simply not reality.
Labor:
Now, for those of you who are like "But Traci, that's still a pretty good damn living for only working 25 hours a month." The fact is, I work WAY more than 25 hours a month. Here's a basic breakdown of my labor:
Advertising/Website maintenance: This I pay someone for, but at one time, I did do it myself (and not nearly as well, I might add). At that time, I'd say I averaged about an hour a day on these things.
Emails/Phone Calls/Screening: Time. Consuming. You can believe that I spend around 3-5 hours a day answering emails and making/receiving phone calls or text messages, and researching and screening clients. Easy. Sometimes more. I know you're sitting there thinking "But you only average 1 or 2 appointments a day, how could you possibly spend that much time on client communication and screening?!" Well, there are usually many more than one or two phone calls and email exchanges per client/per appointment that walks through my door. Not to mention most guys do not send screening information in their first message, and do not send ALL of their screening info in the second or third, even. Also, a majority of guys that contact me are time-wasters that will never come see me. Then I have to track down ladies who may or may not get back to me, ask for replacement references for those who didn't, answer questions, maintain a little flirtation (not too much, please), and so on.
Getting ready: 2 1/2 hours a day, initially. Shower, shave, hair, makeup, get dressed, get room ready. If I have a second appointment, 1 hour to bathe, freshen up, and get the room ready again. Also, another half hour to clean up after appointment, if I don't have another one coming.
Appointment: If it's a one hour appointment, I'm actually probably spending 75 minutes here. A few minutes waiting for you to arrive, and then most gents do not actually leave within the hour, but maybe 5 or 10 past. And those are the respectful ones.
I'd say even on days when I only have one appointment, I'm easily spending 6 hours on work. And for those of you that did the math and thought "That's still a pretty good hourly wage," please see the expenses section.
This post is only meant to reflect MY expenses/labor. Another lady's may be very, very different from mine. Also, this post is in no way meant to be all inclusive, just sort of a general idea of what it's like and some food for thought. Keep in mind, I don't have kids, and MANY ladies do. Imagine adding the cost of a supporting a whole other person or two to this mix. Jeez.
And for the record, time spent writing this post... 25 minutes.
- Paulina 2.0
- 07-03-2011, 06:03 PM
Tiger- what you have laid out is just the MINIMUM...Exactly
You haven't put into consideration any childcare or pet care.
And all that come's out of pocket before we see a dime for our goals/savings and life expenses. Originally Posted by ~Ze~
Also personal safety.
Taser guns and pepper spray are expensive.
- Copierguy0
- 07-03-2011, 06:16 PM
OMG Traci, I just love a woman to tell it like it is, break it down and give it to me STRAIGHT <without sugar coating> Sweetie, you just did that. I have a new found RESPECT for you for doing so. Many hobbyists <including myself> don't have a clue on what it takes to be a GOOD, NO WAIT, SUPER provider. now i do. As i look on that list of things you mentioned, is there any thing a hobbyist can bring to a session to help with your workload? Anything at all? Great Post Traci, Luv it
CG
CG
- Guest022315
- 07-03-2011, 06:26 PM
Copier it's called tips lol. Tbrooks nice novel and it is nice to know the behind the scenes. However, as you have done providers should understand and charge their rates accordingly.
- Luvyduvy
- 07-03-2011, 06:59 PM
thank you Traci - that is a classic - and very informative
I don't buy the 25 minutes - an hour and 25 ok... LOL thanks for sharing
I don't buy the 25 minutes - an hour and 25 ok... LOL thanks for sharing
- hotlips_houlihan
- 07-03-2011, 08:08 PM
Here's more expenses:
Refreshments for our guests (snacks/beverages they may request)
All the little things for our guests, i.e. toothbrush, scent-free soap, etc., razors, mouthwash, disposable cups for the mouthwash
The cost entailed with doing extra laundry
Don't forget about the deposit it takes when you check into a hotel. Many places do not accept cash deposits so you have to put it on a CC or a debit card. That can take up to 30 days to refund back into your account, depending on the company or bank you use.
Can't think of any more at the moment...Traci and Tiger pretty much covered the rest of it
Refreshments for our guests (snacks/beverages they may request)
All the little things for our guests, i.e. toothbrush, scent-free soap, etc., razors, mouthwash, disposable cups for the mouthwash
The cost entailed with doing extra laundry
Don't forget about the deposit it takes when you check into a hotel. Many places do not accept cash deposits so you have to put it on a CC or a debit card. That can take up to 30 days to refund back into your account, depending on the company or bank you use.
Can't think of any more at the moment...Traci and Tiger pretty much covered the rest of it
- Chloe
- 07-03-2011, 11:02 PM
I have some more add ons!!
Fights! I travel out of state once a month and a flight to Texas usually costs anywhere between 400-800 for the round trip.
Rental Cars or taxis costing 40-80 a day.
Photography/website design and maintenance, if we want real quality photos and we have to pay top notch. Updating photos cost me personally (other than my random done at home ones I post) cost about 300.
I only provide 8-10 days a month and prefer to be a low volume provider. I am also not a frivolous spender and spend only what is needed and desired for top notch service so I work thing out well with what I make
As for what the guys can do? Don't cancel lol and even the small little things like a candle, nice lotion and a neat little new toy will make a huge difference
And hotlips you aren't joking about the deposit! They range from 40-400 depending on where you stay!
Fights! I travel out of state once a month and a flight to Texas usually costs anywhere between 400-800 for the round trip.
Rental Cars or taxis costing 40-80 a day.
Photography/website design and maintenance, if we want real quality photos and we have to pay top notch. Updating photos cost me personally (other than my random done at home ones I post) cost about 300.
I only provide 8-10 days a month and prefer to be a low volume provider. I am also not a frivolous spender and spend only what is needed and desired for top notch service so I work thing out well with what I make
As for what the guys can do? Don't cancel lol and even the small little things like a candle, nice lotion and a neat little new toy will make a huge difference
And hotlips you aren't joking about the deposit! They range from 40-400 depending on where you stay!
- fawn
- 07-03-2011, 11:06 PM
I hate these types of threads and the break downs of our exspenses.... Honestly who gives a damn.... That is personal information as your monthly gross is personal.. would you guys like to share with us what you make a month and how you spend it and we will do a break down on yours.... So the next time some of you guys try to barter with a lady we can say seriously, you make $$$$$$$ a month and you want me to give you a special... either way its no one business what anyone makes or how they spend it or what they spend it on...
Besides every woman's circumstances are different.....
Besides every woman's circumstances are different.....
- hotlips_houlihan
- 07-04-2011, 12:19 AM
[quote=fawn;1440983]
I hate these types of threads and the break downs of our exspenses.... Honestly who gives a damn.... That is personal information as your monthly gross is personal.. would you guys like to share with us what you make a month and how you spend it and we will do a break down on yours.... So the next time some of you guys try to barter with a lady we can say seriously, you make $$$$$$$ a month and you want me to give you a special... either way its no one business what anyone makes or how they spend it or what they spend it on...
Besides every woman's circumstances are different..... quote]
Love ya babe, but this thread isn't about how much we make. It's about how much we have to spend to be in this business lol smooches
I hate these types of threads and the break downs of our exspenses.... Honestly who gives a damn.... That is personal information as your monthly gross is personal.. would you guys like to share with us what you make a month and how you spend it and we will do a break down on yours.... So the next time some of you guys try to barter with a lady we can say seriously, you make $$$$$$$ a month and you want me to give you a special... either way its no one business what anyone makes or how they spend it or what they spend it on...
Besides every woman's circumstances are different..... quote]
Love ya babe, but this thread isn't about how much we make. It's about how much we have to spend to be in this business lol smooches
- Luvyduvy
- 07-04-2011, 12:51 AM
+ 1 Hotlips... it's great info... and I appreciate what you ladies go through to be our fantasies.
- Prolongus
- 07-04-2011, 07:45 AM
Would you guys like to share with us what you make a month.... Originally Posted by fawnFair enough question...Every month I make cookies...sometimes brownies...love the brownies better, tho.
Just messin' with you Fawn...I think it's a good post...lots of guys don't realize all the expenses you wonderful ladies incur. Traci went in to detail and to me, I never barter and maybe this post might keep some guys from doing that, but not all of us. Plus all of this has to be done discretely. Thanks Traci.
- Tiger Woods
- 07-04-2011, 07:57 AM
I have more breakdowns.
The time it takes to get out of bed to go to work, turn the cell phone back on so you can take calls. Make and eat breakfast so you have energy for your sessions. Drive to Walgreens to get business supplies. Banking. Check voicemail and return calls (for those providers that do). Update the Facebook wall, toss a few Tweets out there. Go to the bathroom so the session won't have an interruption.....
At the end of a 24 hour day...the profits dwindle away because every minute is a business related expense....no time to sleep....need longer days....
...I feel the pain.
The time it takes to get out of bed to go to work, turn the cell phone back on so you can take calls. Make and eat breakfast so you have energy for your sessions. Drive to Walgreens to get business supplies. Banking. Check voicemail and return calls (for those providers that do). Update the Facebook wall, toss a few Tweets out there. Go to the bathroom so the session won't have an interruption.....
At the end of a 24 hour day...the profits dwindle away because every minute is a business related expense....no time to sleep....need longer days....
...I feel the pain.