Why would anyone worry about Trump?

From: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinio...%99/ar-AAgwAb1

Curious to hear any thoughts. This person references Gen Hayden, but it also reflects a lot of the comments I have heard among military in all services. The thought of Trump as president raises an issues I honestly never thought I would have to even think about: the possibility of a military "strike" in some areas. I always thought the military would vote heavily Republican, but the concept of Trump as CinC will, I am sure, cause many of them to rethink.

Of course some of the less rational folks here won't even understand how fundamental a concern it is if the military even start to contemplate such issues.

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As soldiers, we are called to respect and obey our commander-in-chief, but not if he issues unlawful orders. This moral commitment is one of the things that keeps soldiers from becoming barbaric in the most barbaric of circumstances—war. It also is a constant reminder that no man stands above the law he serves.

When questioned on how he would make a nation, group, or person do what he demands, Donald Trump often replies with something menacing, along the lines of “They will—” with an implied “or else.” The Mexican government disagrees with him on who will pay for his wall, so now it’s ten feet taller. House Speaker Paul Ryan expresses reservations about Trump’s KKK equivocations, and Trump concludes they’ll get along, or Ryan will “pay a big price.”

In last week’s Republican primary debate, Donald Trump used the same veiled threat toward the military if it refused his unlawful orders to torture captured terrorists and target their families. He repeatedly insisted that they—we—would do what he said. Of course, confronted on his comments afterward, he was forced to rethink his answer and backpedaled. It’s hard to take such an immediate 180-degree turn seriously. He was given numerous opportunities to correct himself during the debate and didn’t do so.

A Presidency Too Far

Since his initial comments are more in line with his previous statements, which is why he was asked the question, I take them seriously. As a soldier, I expect commanders to say what they mean and not play political games. My response to Trump’s position (as best we can determine): Hell no, sir.

As a soldier, I expect commanders to say what they mean and not play political games.

You have repeatedly belittled our former commander-in-chief, President George W. Bush, whose unequivocal response to 9/11 was the reason so many of us joined the military. You claim—with no evidence—that he lied about Iraq. You can fault the intelligence that Bush, both Clintons, Barack Obama, and most of Congress believed, but you cannot fault the moral integrity of the man.

In fact, that was why many of us took our oath of offices under his presidency—you could question his policies, but you could not question his principles. We knew President Bush would give us the tools to fight a cause he earnestly believed in (and many of us did, too), and that he would try to get us out with minimal casualties. Yet you called him a liar.

While lambasting the ethics of our former commander-in-chief, you seek to go beyond his enhanced interrogation techniques to the use of outright torture. You seek to go beyond his discriminate targeting of terrorists by illegally and inhumanely targeting terrorists’ families. You must have a low view of our military to think they will mindlessly abide the dictatorial edicts of a man who pretends to stand above the Constitution they pledged to defend.

American Soldiers Need a Strong Conscience

You said last Thursday that not only would you favor these policies as commander-in-chief, but you would make sure the military did what you said. You not only doubt our mental faculties and moral character, you doubt our moral fortitude in refusing your unlawful orders. You play to the progressive stereotype that soldiers are nothing but pre-programmed kill machines.

We are not mindless, human drones that can be deployed through whatever means to any sort of immoral end.

As a chaplain, much of my job is to counsel soldiers, because they are the exact opposite—they are spouses and parents, called to leave their families behind to preserve the country they love. They see horrendous things, including the weaponization of children, but bear the moral weight of such a sacrifice for the greater cause they carry. Moral conscience and moral fortitude are the chief characteristics of each soldier. These characteristics enable them to endure the sick and sadistic for the sake of greater things—country, freedom, values, family, and the battle buddy alongside them.

It is also these characteristics that separate soldiers from terrorists. We are not mindless, human drones that can be deployed through whatever means to any sort of immoral end. We represent moral ideals (the Constitution), moral causes (defending home and hearth), and bear moral discretion in defending these ideals and causes. A U.S. soldier is a soldier specifically for these reasons.

I shouldn’t have to instruct you on the basic nature and tenets of the military, for you are dangerously close to controlling this venerable force. You should have listened to General Hayden’s warning that we would not abide your unlawful orders. Our moral conscience, which makes us soldiers, commits us to a moral purpose higher than your megalomaniacal ambitions for our use.

So now a low-ranking young officer in the Army Reserves is telling you what hundreds of thousands of other soldiers will echo: “Hell no, sir.”

Gas Lighting/astro-turf from a 0ld-Tzombie...


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As I said, some folks won't even understand the issue.��

If Trumpet is elected, there will be a 3rd WW.

If Trumpet is elected, there will be a 3rd WW. Originally Posted by UB9IB6

Right. Sounds like it's time for you to hunker down, bunker clown. Who says that? Oh yeah, assup. Be sure to take him with you.

Bill Clinton's failed diplomacy gave North Korea the bomb. Barack Obama's diplomacy has legitimized Iran's nuclear program. The Middle East is in flames. Europe is bursting with refugees. Russia is on the move in Ukraine, China in the South China Sea. The world today is a far more dangerous place as a result of Obama's foreign policy fecklessness, ineptitude and failures. And you're already blaming the next guy?
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Michael Hayden is from Pittsburgh. Former head of the NSA and the CIA. I respect him a lot more than Donald Trump. The suggestion that Bush knew there were no WMDs in Iraq prior to invading is an outrageous leftist fabrication - and one that I was appalled to hear Trump repeat during a debate. Hayden was right to push back against the campaign rhetoric about carpet-bombing, torture and targeting the families of terrorists. I am sure this is why Trump backpedaled on some of the things he said. But why does he say those things in the first place? Because he knows voters are frustrated with a Commander-in-Chief who is too timid and deluded by PC thinking to say the words “Islamic terrorism” and who has consistently underestimated and failed to check the growing terrorist threat. So there is huge popular sentiment out there in favor of finally taking the gloves off – and Trump is shamelessly exploiting it.

As a practical matter, I don't think Trump or any other Republican President would actually issue “unlawful orders” to the military. His defense chiefs and advisers and people like Michael Hayden would tell him those orders cannot be carried out. Putting aside the campaign rhetoric, there is a legitimate debate about the rules of engagement. I'm pretty sure most of the military is in favor of relaxing those rules wherever appropriate to defeat ISIS and other jihadists, who seek to exploit every restriction in our military field manuals. We ought to be able to discuss this calmly without resorting to extremes and hyperbole.

If Trumpet is elected, there will be a 3rd WW. Originally Posted by UB9IB6

Trump is not going to bomb potential investment property. We will still have phony proxy wars. When Assad is out of Syria, watch for the Trump Tower in Damascus.

Trump is a shitstain on the shorts of America. But he loves us, we're beautiful.

He is still pissed that he couldn't be a member of the Rat Pack.

IBJunior doesn't think Trump would issue unlawful orders, just threaten to do so...

why is it I think old t would be posting articles about how bush lied if bush were still president?

since he's not its trumps turn

why is it I think old t would be posting articles about how bush lied if bush were still president?

since he's not its trumps turn Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

Why do you think that? Because you are dumb.

#1. As with IIFFy you missed the point (not surprising, given it is you)

#2. I don't ever recall calling bush a liar. I have called some of his supporters/handelers that, but I think Bush was a decent person in way over his head and isolated from facts by Cheney et. al.

So now--care to actually comment on Trump giving orders to torture and target civilians? I suspect what LL says is true, that this is election hyperbole. But then what does it say about the brainless morons who hear that any say "yes. I want a immoral thug like Trum leading our country."

I suspect what LL says is true, that this is election hyperbole. But then what does it say about the brainless morons who hear that and say "yes. I want an immoral thug like Trump leading our country." Originally Posted by Old-T

I already answered that. It tells us many voters are fed up with "a Commander-in-Chief who is too timid and deluded by PC thinking to say the words 'Islamic terrorism' and who has consistently underestimated and failed to check the growing terrorist threat."

Trump... loves me, I'm poorly educated. Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

FTFY

Trump also said that he would build a military so strong that nobody would threaten us and would never have to use it. He says a lot of things to drum up the masses as LL has stated. A lot of morons were duped by Obama twice. I'm not suprised people are voting for Trump. He's getting some of those 47%ers that Romney couldn't.

If Trumpet is elected, there will be a 3rd WW. Originally Posted by UB9IB6

WW3 has already begun it just hasn't been declared as such.


Jim

Trump is a carnival barker.