A Paranoid Newbie's Question

First of all, hello everyone!

I'm sketchball82 of Washington, DC. I am interested in taking my first steps in the hobby, as most of you had to do back in the day. I've followed several websites for almost a year now, flirting with the idea: eros, TER, bigdoggie, etc. However, I've just recently found these boards, and there is a ton of excellent information here, which have helped me grow more confident and less skeptical. I'm presently in the process of getting my preferred 411 membership.

Now to my fear. My biggest concern is discretion and getting caught in some form of LE sting. I am likely worrying too much, but I would like some feedback on strategies long time hobbyists use to avoid getting snared by phony adds.

I have read many guides for newbies (http://eccie.net/showthread.php?t=178982 for example), but they not have really satisfactorily explained strategies to avoid LE.

In particular, there are several providers on eros that I am or have been interested in (example: http://www.eros-dc.com/files/241329.htm; I'm into the college spinner body type), but I cannot find any reviews or info on TER, bigdoggie, here, or even google by a phone number search. Does that mean that I should not trust that they are actually providers, or are you safe 99% of the time type deal? Should I only trust P411?

Please advise.

Thanks for you advice and help!

Cheers,
- SB82

Just like you sketchball82, I was first attracted to this scene by a few incredibly alluring Eros adds that could not be verified in any way, shape or form, and I tried everything. They seemed too good to be true. The general advice I got was to stay far, far away unless I had nothing to lose. Also, like you, I was more worried about LE than anything else.

All I can say is that I stayed away, joined P411, have met some really excellent ladies, and have stayed completely out of the wrong kind of trouble so far.

I still have a lot to learn, but the main lesson so far is that P411 works incredibly well, and is much more discrete and efficient than I thought it would be. It's also a great way to establish and maintain contact with providers, at least in my area.

sketchball, I am just a little beyond newbie myself, so you should consider my advice with that knowledge in mind, but if I were you I would not make my first session with a lady who does not have some positive reviews (including having a reputation for being newbie friendly) on ECCIE and/or another legitimate review site and who is not a P411 member. It's not merely a matter of avoiding LE, but of avoiding a negative first experience in the hobby.

Good luck to you. I hope you are as fortunate in your first provider choice as I was. In my case it was pure dumb luck, because I didn't even know about ECCIE, P411, etc. at the time. As it so happened, I just stumbled onto Eros and found the lady who is still my ATF, but I understand now it was something of a miracle that I blindly contacted a lady who was and is a DFW legend in the best possible way.

You are much better informed starting out than I was, so the odds should be pretty good you'll pick a winner for yourself the first time out.

Sketchball, you can only see the girls from Eccie...(joking).
1. get a no contract phone with cash, cant be traced
2. get a email address with no personal info attached and use a cheap laptop(acer-
240.00)
NEVER USE AT HOME COMPUTER OR HOME INTERNET. Use public internet at
mcdonalds, its 24 hours a day and you can sit in the parking lot and pick up wi-fi
for free.

3. If you get a motel room for your hobby use cash, in the sign in sheet put in your
first name as John and your real last name. They only look at your last name. I
have done this many times. Always wear a baseball cap and sunshades when you
check in during the day hours. I do this as well cuz the cameras are at the front
desk. Don't use the motel phone, it logs every call. DON'T USE LAPTOP WHILE IN
THE ROOM.
Before you go to a providers room tell front desk you are waiting for Bob smith and then correct yourself and say-He is in his room. (this will keep you from being pulled into a room by LE and then asking you a hundred questions. You are covering yourself for having a excuse to be in that hallway.
If the provider has a room, get there early and see if there is anyone coming out or hanging our around her door. (This should be a red flag)
TURN YOUR CELL PHONE OFF AND LEAVE IT IN YOUR AUTO.
If someone asks you if you need help or what are you doing while in the hall way-
immediately knock on the nearest motel door and act like you are looking for Bob
Smith your buddy. Say out loud, I need to go to front desk and see if he is still
here.
4. Go with verified providers ... and talk with other providers, they may know her.
I have some that can vouch for me. You get the picture.
5. Don't ever put anything in writing when it comes to setting up a appt. CALL...
If you are sending messages, emails or texts to LE that would be hard to fight.
I do get references by email if thats the only way she does bizness but I wont
be writing in a email or text- our sessioin is today at 3pm and don't forget the
250 fee for full service or GFE.(just example)You never know if she got popped
and they are waiting on you to show up. Your story is always-you wanted a
massage and you don't like massage parlors because you are afraid of getting a
staph infection. You read that somewhere.
Any time and Every time you talk to a provider you need to say- I love a sexy
woman that gives massages.

Sketchball, first welcome to the boards.

Now, as a former total noob, I'm going to pimp out the boards I used to get started. Bestgfe.com. They are claimed as a "national" board but they mostly have an east coast presense going. They also have tons of stickied threads for your topic at hand.

Now before I forget you have mentioned one of the biggest acts of safety and discression.

Always think with the big head.

If you can't find reviews (or there aren't any) then move on. TOFTT is not something to do for your first time out. Sticking with well reviewed ladies is one of the easier ways to also avoid LE.

Ignore BP, it's not where you want to look. I've never used euros myself, but I have heard mixed things about it.

Anita has given two pretty solid points of advice.
Burner phone bought with cash.
Burner email setup from not home or work IP.

The advice on hotel staff...I've never heard of and it's interesting to say the least. The best advice I can give is look confident in where you're going. Don't stop at the front desk, ever. If someone on staff says hi just say hi right back, but continue on your way.

I used to get to incalls about an hour early. I'd do a walk thru of the ground's parking lot checking for any government tags on vechiles. (That took a while.) As well as checking for things like cargo vans with government plates. Once I had the room number, I did a walk thru of the floor above and below it then the same floor as it. Checked for any doors propped open, or people in the stairwells. I also took the stairs when reasonable. I'm not hiking up 13 stories or anything but 3-6 were good. I always took them when leaving. Even at 13 stories as going down is easy. Taking the elevator to the floor above or below so I could do my walk thru is usually how that worked. That is all what I used to do. And that was with a highly reviewed and trusted agency.

As a general rule, providers don't like you showing up early. Either sitting in the parking lot(bad), lobby(horrible), or doing what I used to. It makes you as the client stand out and draw attention which is bad.

In summary, I say join bestgfe.com also. Always remember that every board has the chance of LE presense and monitoring. Never register for a board with your personal or work email. Never use your personal or work email for hobby business. Always use a prepaid burner phone you bought with cash. If at all possible, turn your personal cell off well before you get to the incall. If not possible, it needs to be off and in your car once you arrive. Only see well reviewed and reputable ladies. And always think with your big head.

Good luck, stay safe, and have fun!

daratu1 - You may be more paranoid than I with your pre-visit security check.

If you are going to jump into this hobby, best to use review sites like this one or which ever one is 'best' for your locale.

EROS has been known to have a lot of bait & switch, etc. BP is as bad or worse. If you can't find a review on here or TER, good chance you want to avoid. Not always, some ladies have a strict no review policy, but better safe than sorry, especially on your first foray.

P411 has a lot of supporters. I never have used, but if you have already bitten that apple, use it. It should save you some heartache and regrets.

Now, my final suggestion. Drop the idea of this hobby. Once you bite this apple, turning back is almost impossible. Run, find a less addictive hobby, get a girlfriend, a wife, etc. you love and forget you ever stumbled into this dungeon we call the hobby.

I am intrigued sometimes by guys who enter the hobby this way, almost a real choice for you. In my case, and many guys I think, we start out with a gal at a strip club, or a massage therapist, get a little taste of the sweet life, and it leads us down the dark stairwell to the dungeon from which there is no escape.

Be safe, a little paranoia is good. Embrace it, it may save your hide one day.

Tigercat- Yeah. It was a bit extreme. I no longer do that but it's an example of what I used to do. I still do a quick drive through of the parking lot checking for government plates when I arrive, and I now have a very different electronic trail than I used to.

Also, whole heartedly agree, be aware of your surroundings, and paranoid. It may just save your ass. As for the no review policy of ladies, most boards will have a ISO (in search of) forum where you can ask.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions.

It appears everyone is giving similar advice, which can be summarized as (presented for people that read this thread later and just want the quick 411):

1. Get a burn phone/laptop. Do not use the laptop at your home network, so the IP is not traceable back to you.

2. NO PAPER TRAIL. Cash, cash, cash. Every transaction related to the hobby should be paid in cash. A plausible but different name (same last name, different first name) should be used where a paper trail is necessary (i.e., hotel). This ties into the burn cell phone and laptop above.

3. Unreviewed ladies are a risk, not only of LE stings but of bait-and-switch. This is especially true of BP and CL, and even of eros to a more limited extent.

4. P411, ECCIE, and TER are good resources for finding well reviewed ladies, which means minimized risk.

5. Checking the parking lot for government plate vehicles can be an efficient and quick way to get a basic level of protection.

6. There are divergent ideas on if hallways, stairways, lobbies, receptionists should be checked and engaged or ignored. I interpret this to mean that if one checks the hallway, stairway, and lobby, or engages the receptionist is a matter of personal choice, and different people follow different rules successfully. Hence, following these steps are likely superfluous.

7. Obviously have a backup story in which you are purchasing a legal service, in case you are subject to a sting, such as purchasing private massage.

---

For my first time out, I might not necessarily only follow these guild lines, but it seems that everyone agrees following these common tips will give the client a basic level of protection after they are more comfortable in the hobby.

Thanks every for your posts and suggestions. As the result, there are a couple sites to check out and some ideas for the my first day in the hobby.

@tigercat: I appreciate your candor with regard to not getting into the hobby. However, I confess to a certain level of intentional ambiguity in my first post. In particular, I spent some time abroad (2 years), where the hobby was completely legal. I have already bitten of the fruit, just not in the US where the man has forbidden it.

7. Obviously have a backup story in which you are purchasing a legal service, in case you are subject to a sting, such as purchasing private massage.
Originally Posted by sketchball82

Oh, you almost had it. This one won't do you any good. If you walk into a sting, you are going to jail. Period. Don't rely on the cops to do an honest job. You don't have to say anything, hand over any money, or even explicitly talk about services in order to be arrested. The key is to make sure you don't walk into a sting by doing all of the other things you listed. But don't rely on this as a backup. If you walk into a sting, you will not pass go, will not collect $200, and you will go straight to jail. No matter what.

If getting out of a sting were as easy as saying "Oh I was just here for a massage", then everyone would say that and no one would get arrested.

Oh, you almost had it. This one won't do you any good. If you walk into a sting, you are going to jail. Period. Don't rely on the cops to do an honest job. You don't have to say anything, hand over any money, or even explicitly talk about services in order to be arrested. The key is to make sure you don't walk into a sting by doing all of the other things you listed. But don't rely on this as a backup. If you walk into a sting, you will not pass go, will not collect $200, and you will go straight to jail. No matter what.

If getting out of a sting were as easy as saying "Oh I was just here for a massage", then everyone would say that and no one would get arrested. Originally Posted by Lily Blair

Here's hoping we never have to cross that bridge.

I have been told by a few guys they were let go, when they said stepped into a sting.
They said the right thing but lily is correct. If they want to arrest someone bad enough its going to happen.
Always have a bailsbond agent lined up just in case. I DO.... Go introduce yourself to a good bailsbond company and explain that you get erotic massages and don't lie to them, they don't judge. you never know if you are going to get arrested and show them you have a legit job and they will want your business and money. If you have a house , a car, and a job that is stable enough for a bailsbond company. Have yourself ready and prepared before anything happens.
I have a nationwide company that will get me out of jail due to the fact that I now travel. You don't want to be stuck in jail trying to find a bails bond agent...

I wonder if anyone cruising the parking lots has ever spotted government plates, aborted their appointment, and then sure enough verified that there was a sting in process at that location? I doubt LE is incompetent enough to leave such vehicles anywhere around.

If the room number is not given until you are at the location, that is a red flag. LE seeks always to control the situation, and that way they limit the possibilities of someone arriving early and observing.

My advice is find a dupe, er, I mean friend to check things out for you before you go in..............lol.

If the room number is not given until you are at the location, that is a red flag. LE seeks always to control the situation, and that way they limit the possibilities of someone arriving early and observing.

. Originally Posted by coolbreeze0003

Gosh....really?? I would say almost all of my incalls visits she says something like this.

"Call when you get here." Then she gives my the room number.

LOL...when I have her come to my hotel I say, "Call when you get here." I haven't had anyone complain.

Isn't this the "2 call system" you alreays read about in reviews??

I have been told by a few guys they were let go, when they said stepped into a sting.
They said the right thing but lily is correct. If they want to arrest someone bad enough its going to happen.
Always have a bailsbond agent lined up just in case. I DO.... Go introduce yourself to a good bailsbond company and explain that you get erotic massages and don't lie to them, they don't judge. you never know if you are going to get arrested and show them you have a legit job and they will want your business and money. If you have a house , a car, and a job that is stable enough for a bailsbond company. Have yourself ready and prepared before anything happens.
I have a nationwide company that will get me out of jail due to the fact that I now travel. You don't want to be stuck in jail trying to find a bails bond agent... Originally Posted by Anita Lay

Ooooooook, what was 'the right thing'?

Gosh....really?? I would say almost all of my incalls visits she says something like this.

"Call when you get here." Then she gives my the room number.

LOL...when I have her come to my hotel I say, "Call when you get here." I haven't had anyone complain.

Isn't this the "2 call system" you alreays read about in reviews?? Originally Posted by Don Imus

Yes, I hear about the 2 call system, and the few times someone has insisted on it I've declined the appointment. It gives most of the control to the person with the room.