Why unilateral support of Israel?

It seems to me that the relationship between the US and Israel is overwhelmingly one-sided? SO, why the unwavering support in spite of the regional ramifications? Not to mention the amount of monetary and military aid...

1) They are the only democracy in the Middle East, making them an obvious ally in the region;
2) They have nuclear weapons (although never admitted or confirmed);
3) A large Jewish contingency in the US that has political ramifications;
4) They are able to defend themselves from attacks without much assistance from the US;
5) Strong support from the US when the state was established by the UN in 1948.

Maybe because they're our only real ally in the region?
Maybe because they're beset on all sides with people that want nothing less than to have them destroyed for no reason other than their Jews?
Maybe because we have a huge number of Jewish people as citizens of the United States?
Maybe because the Nation of Israel has been a nation of the Jewish people since biblical times and they have as much a right to be there as anyone else?

WRT foreign aid, in 2010 we gave Israel 2.8 Billion. We also gave Egypt, Palestine (not even really a nation), Jordan, and Lebanon over 3 Billion so it's not like we're supporting just them.

Jack

As of 2009, there are only 6.6 million jews in the US, which is appx. 2.1 percent of the United States population. 27 of the 435 U.S. representatives are Jews - amazingly disproportionate in relation to population. Israel holds 18.9 billion of the current U.S. debt. It has been rumored that Jews own/control up to 90% of the world's media, and the Jewish Lobby is very financially/politically influential in Washington. As far as alliance, the US has made more enemies than friends as a result of unilateral support of Israel -which is really confusing, considering that the Arabs are the holders of oil fields/reserves. Also, I don't know of any American foreign wars/military actions in the middle east that have been launched from Israeli land. The US usually launches military actions from carriers or other bases such as Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

As of 2009, there are only 6.6 million jews in the US, which is appx. 2.1 percent of the United States population. 27 of the 435 U.S. representatives are Jews - amazingly disproportionate in relation to population. Israel holds 18.9 billion of the current U.S. debt. It has been rumored that Jews own/control up to 90% of the world's media, and the Jewish Lobby is very financially/politically influential in Washington. As far as alliance, the US has made more enemies than friends as a result of unilateral support of Israel -which is really confusing, considering that the Arabs are the holders of oil fields/reserves. Also, I don't know of any American foreign wars/military actions in the middle east that have been launched from Israeli land. The US usually launches military actions from carriers or other bases such as Turkey and Saudi Arabia. Originally Posted by thorough9

I could fairly easily pick apart your post but I'm not going to.

Assuming everything you wrote is true, and I have no idea if it is or not but I have real questions on that 90% of the media figure, I have only one question for you.

What's your point?

If you're trying to say that everything you posted is the reason the US is such a staunch supporter of Israel, why did you ask the fucking question to begin with if you think you already know the answer?

To me it's not that hard. ALL of the Islamic extremists will never accept an Israel in the middle east. Period. End of discussion. Because of the Islamic version of education, the majority of Arabs, although perhaps not as outwardly hostile to Israel as the extremists, aren't ever going to accept them either.

In case you hadn't noticed, the feelings of Islam towards the US are not that different than their feelings towards Israel, it's just that Israel is a little handier to hate geographically. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

If you or anyone else ever thinks Israel or the US for that matter can "negotiate" a peace with radical Islam you're being naive. It's not going to happen. Like it or not, until the more moderate Muslims stand up to the radicals and get them out of positions of power instead of placing the IN positions of power, nothing is going to change. The only reason there is even a semblance of control over there is because of the US and to a lesser degree NATO and Israel standing there with a huge sword ready to chop off heads if things go down the crapper.

This is reality. The choice is that of the Muslims. Get rid of the Extremists that control your politics and lives and then we can talk. Until then, welcome to the world as it really is.

Hope I didn't burst your fantasyland bubble.

Jack

I could fairly easily pick apart your post but I'm not going to.

Assuming everything you wrote is true, and I have no idea if it is or not but I have real questions on that 90% of the media figure, I have only one question for you.

What's your point?

If you're trying to say that everything you posted is the reason the US is such a staunch supporter of Israel, why did you ask the fucking question to begin with if you think you already know the answer?

Hope I didn't burst your fantasyland bubble.

Jack Originally Posted by ksjack

Could'a, Should'a, Would'a - STFU. Ok. Another loud-mouthed dumb-ass jumping to conclusions and assuming... that makes you an ass. You can question whatever you like - that's your right. Speaking of assumptions, it would have better for you to have just remained silent, b/c your response has removed ALL doubt.

As far as my point, you obviously missed it in your attempt to come out firing - blanks that is. I said exactly what I was trying to say and your hayseed interpretation was unsolicited. If you don't understand what's going on, or the information/opinion presented, then STFU! I asked the "fucking question" b/c I don't understand why the alliance is so "strategically important". I commented to counter the "large population" and "strategic ally" argument. No one asked you shit about Muslim extremists, besides if the question is about Israel, then the answer should be about Israel. I guess that you've been waiting in the wings waiting for your shot, but you missed - a major FAIL. So, try again, JackASS..

The representation if Congress of anyone is irrelevant. It is not based on demographics but who can and does win office.

As for the others; Our aid to Israel has always been with understanding that that money will be spent with American companies unlike so many of our other beneficiaries.
Israel is a democracy with a value and culture similar to ours.
Israel has supported us with intelligence when Jimmy Carter killed our human intelligence network in the 70s.
If push came to shove and we desperately needed logistical support in the Middle East where do we go? Iraq? Jordan?

Could'a, Should'a, Would'a - STFU. Ok. Another loud-mouthed dumb-ass jumping to conclusions and assuming... that makes you an ass. You can question whatever you like - that's your right. Speaking of assumptions, it would have better for you to have just remained silent, b/c your response has removed ALL doubt.

As far as my point, you obviously missed it in your attempt to come out firing - blanks that is. I said exactly what I was trying to say and your hayseed interpretation was unsolicited. If you don't understand what's going on, or the information/opinion presented, then STFU! I asked the "fucking question" b/c I don't understand why the alliance is so "strategically important". I commented to counter the "large population" and "strategic ally" argument. No one asked you shit about Muslim extremists, besides if the question is about Israel, then the answer should be about Israel. I guess that you've been waiting in the wings waiting for your shot, but you missed - a major FAIL. So, try again, JackASS.. Originally Posted by thorough9

Huh.

Your time of the month or what?

If you don't want answers you may not like, don't ask the question. To have one reliable, steadfast ally in the midst of a region where such a huge number of people want us dead is something most 6th graders could understand. If you think Islamic extremism isn't part of the equation then your lack of understanding of the issues is beyond any hope of ever correcting.

It's pretty easy to just throw out BS statistics (like Jews own 90% of the media) when you present no facts to support that assertion and any reasonable person would question it. The balls in your court, bubba, prove it. Show me the numbers that support your assertion.

Oh, and WRT your several STFU comments?

No.

Have a nice day.

Jack

The representation if Congress of anyone is irrelevant. It is not based on demographics but who can and does win office.

As for the others; Our aid to Israel has always been with understanding that that money will be spent with American companies unlike so many of our other beneficiaries.
Israel is a democracy with a value and culture similar to ours.
Israel has supported us with intelligence when Jimmy Carter killed our human intelligence network in the 70s.
If push came to shove and we desperately needed logistical support in the Middle East where do we go? Iraq? Jordan? Originally Posted by john_galt

The representation in congress is relevant when it coomes to treaty ratification and any other votes that comes about - most representatives, once elected, do not hold town hall meetings to allow their constituencies to influence their votes, so Jewish representatives are more likely to vote for treaties and actions that are favorable to Israel no matter which area of the country that they represent. The other options make sense, but what's the point of giving someone money to spend buying American goods....

Huh.

Your time of the month or what?

If you don't want answers you may not like, don't ask the question. To have one reliable, steadfast ally in the midst of a region where such a huge number of people want us dead is something most 6th graders could understand. If you think Islamic extremism isn't part of the equation then your lack of understanding of the issues is beyond any hope of ever correcting.

It's pretty easy to just throw out BS statistics (like Jews own 90% of the media) when you present no facts to support that assertion and any reasonable person would question it. The balls in your court, bubba, prove it. Show me the numbers that support your assertion.

Oh, and WRT your several STFU comments?

No.

Have a nice day.

Jack Originally Posted by ksjack

STFU.

The posts were civil until you showed up with your "what's your point" and your "why ask the fucking question" lines. So you can drop the agressive-passive approach. If you want to contribute to the thread with civility, then do so, but if you come here blowing a bunch of hot air and internet puffery, then I will respond accordingly. You can answer a question without having to re-inforce your illusions of intellectual grandeur, JackASS. And as far as not responding well when what's presented is not what's expected, ain't that the pot calling the kettle round and hot.....

I can tell you something that I'd learned by sixth grade: If all of the people over there want you dead, then stay the fuck away from over there - especially if you don't live there: If i get my ass kicked everytime i go to my friend's house to visit, then my friend is gonna have to come to my house. And, unilateral support of Israel is the reason why most of the people over there want us dead. I fully understand Islamic extremism, but I also understand why their extremism is directed at the U.S. I also know the history of the region and you attributing unilateral support of Israel to Islamic extremism is like attributing the neutralization of the American Indian solely to Indian aggression. Both instances are about the acquisition of land and territory that belonged to another. We didn't commit the Holocaust and as horrid as it was, we shouldn't carry any guilt that compells the US to unilaterally support Israel, especially since the US basically defeated Nazi Germany, and even more so when factoring in the cost of American lives both in WWII and since.


BTW get a dictionary and look up the word "rumor". Right next to it, you'll find those numbers that you're looking for.

Yea thorugh9, I totally hear what your saying.

I'm sure ur not talking about totally abandoning our alliance with Israel.
Just the seemingly one-sided support.

As far as Israel being this wonderful ally in the region....everytime we have
done anything over there...we ask (some would say beg) them not to get
involve due to complications which would arise.

Especially in Gulf War 1...which granted Iraq tried to play that card.

It's like whenever someone asks this question...they are bombarded with accusations
that would imply turning our backs on them.

That's not the case at all, but just to occassional step back and take a look
at viewing our alliance with them with more independent view.

Make no mistake a big reason why they have our support is not based on the size
of the Jewish population in US...but the influenced they have.

And that's not to say that is a bad thing...how they use their influence.

But just like with any other ally, we need to, as a nation, occassionally step back
and make sure our support is also in our best interest as well

And hey John Galt...not looking to get into some Internet mudsligging...

but just to react to ur above post...

#1 The "understanding that our money sent to them would be spent on US companies"

Honestly, where did you come up with that one? And how about instead of sending
all of it to them....how about we just spend it in suppport of US companies ourselves?

#2 That they are a democracy...ok there is some logic to that. But let's face it, we
have no problem supporting countries that don't fit that bill, at all. So wouldn't be alittle two face, if we were to use that as a major factor in this case?

#3 As far as having them as a base for logistical support....well we have had 2 major
wars with Iraq, and agree or disagree with those campaigns, we have had plenty
of logistical support without having to rely on Israel

Much as I hate to admit it, Thorough9 has a good point. I don't know why our support of Israel is so one-sided. Let's face it, the UN repatriated a bunch of people in order to establish the Nation of Israel in 1948. Those people were booted off land their families had occupied for generations. They are pissed, and with reason.

However, we can't go back now and undo it, but we have to get over this notion that Israel is pristine white while the "evil" Palestinians are committing all kinds of atrocities. There are plenty of atrocities to go around, and we need to keep our eyes open to what our ally is doing.

Is this what you were getting at, Thorough9? If it is, we agree. OMG! Maybe the world is coming to an end yet!

I'm not talking about total abandonment, but re-evaluation of "Most Favored Ally" status. An ally is one who actively participates through, materials, logistics, or manpower - think WWII Britain, France, Russia, and US - alliance implies a shared burden. We should re-evaluate our relationship with Israel just as we should with Pakistan - no comparison between the two states - just a comparison b/n the US's strategic relationship with both.

SN and what makes the relationship all the more tricky: Israel probably has the most extensive spy/intelligence network in the region which removes one tooth from my argument....

Our alliance with Israel is more lop-sided than one-sided, but despite the danger to American citizens and terrorism that is a direct result of our "alliance", our ally refuses to even consider making concessions that would make it easier for the US, their ally, to move about the region, diplomatically. The US's unilateral relationship with Israel is what prevents the US from establishing a more lasting and genuine influence and peace(the resulting stability could remove oil speculator's speculative price increases due to "unrest") in the Middle East and makes supporting the various, rag-tag collection of Arab Monarchies and Despots necessary - all of this from the lovers of democracy. We would have never initially supported Sadaam, the Saudi monarchy, or the Shah of Iran if there was wiggle room in our relationship with Israel - all to our diplomatic detriment and has created a snowball effect of hatred towards America over the years that has directly resulted in the loss of many American lives.

The US looks especially hypocritical in turning a blind eye to the Israeli use of white phosphorous on civilians - while ousting Saddam Hussein for using nerve gas; for condemning South Africa for apartheid - while allowing the Palestinians to be corralled into camps and whole sections of cities bulldozed, and participating in a Lybian campaign b/c Ghadaffi used air power against the rebels - while Israel pounds the shit out of throwers of stones and homemade "rockets"(that never hit shit) with attack helicopters(Apaches) and tanks(Abrams).

WE are the big brother whose threat prevents the other kid(and his cousins) from getting together and kicking kid brother's ass, so, sometimes the other kid's family hit us with bricks - thrown from behind buildings and rooftops, of course - but they hit us nontheless - for having our brother's back. Getting hit with a brick hurts, and we've got all kinds of wounds and stitches all because we support Little Bro - who is actually more like a kid we rescued from a major beatdown than blood-kin. We say, "Little Bro, you took their toys". "How about you give some of the toys back - not all, just one or two - negotiate". Little Bro says, "No-not a chance" So are we supposed to continue to spend trillions looking for and preventing the next "brick from the rooftop", with our money troubles and all, or.......

World War 2, France??? We gave, and gave, and gave. What did we get from France? They won't join NATO. We liberated their country and then they decided to become isolationist when it was time to pay up. You want to win this argument (you can't) then don't bring up France. Hell,they won't even let us fly FB-111 bombers over their country to bomb Khadaffi.

Again, show me in the US Constitution where it says that representation in the US Congress is supposed to be proportional.

I get it, you are an anti-semetic, a Jew hater, a wannabe camp guard. You are one sick bunny or maybe I should say piggy.