who owns the data in a database

i have a client that is getting rid of her old patient management system and installing a new one. She is trying to gain access to the data in the old system so the data can be transferred to the new system. The old system is a SCO Unix based PC. I'm not sure the type of database system it is running.

Here lies the problem. The company that sold her the old system does not want to give her the userid and password for the old system because they say doing so will give her access to their proprietary system. This is BS because that is like Microsoft saying you can use Word to create documents and print them but you cannot access them to save them.

I think she should have legal access to the data because she bought the old system (PC) and her staff entered patient information into the database. Therefore, I feel she owns the data.

Does anyone know of any legal cases that can be cited in her favor?

Thanks.

Does the company that sold her the old system have a HIPAA release for all of her patients?

Not that I know of. The Dr has the HIPPA releases.

I'm no Lawyer, but the truth is, she owns the data (and the file(s) that contains it). But assuming that the data is stored in a proprietary format, they own the key to get at the data. I'm not talking about some user/pw, i'm talking about the way the data was written to disk.

If it is proprietary and she hasn't given anyone the reason not to help her out, she can always contact the software vendor and ask how much will it "cost" to get her data exported into a format that she can use.

If it is stored in a non-proprietary database format then all you will need is a somewhat skilled computer guy to get at it.

If all this fails, she can always employ the services of a professional hack that can attempt to extract the info.

Feel free to PM me with the name of the application and I should be able to determine what the backend is.

She owns the Data. More than likely she will have to pay them to export the data into a usable format so it can be imported to the new software. Won't be cheep, but it may be worth it depending on the volume.

There is no doubt she owns the data, she does not own the software.
I assume the original User ID/PW is no longer available.

I think there has been some recent (last 5 years or so) Federal legislation that prevents the software company from doing this.

Some suggestions-
contact the company (try a different person than before) and get another User ID/PW. Go up the vendor chain of command until you get to someone that understands. Then get into the software and see look for an export function.

Have an attorney, accountant etc, send them a letter with some strong language about the software companies behaviour and demanding access to the data. List the usual threats of exposure to the BBB, State Attorney General, others in the industry, etc.

Personally, I think going up the chain for the software vendor will probably get you to someone that will be helpful.

Good luck..

The others are correct she owns the data, not any propierty sw to read it or get it out, that will have to be paid for if it is. Lesson for new contract and any one with sw lease of this sort. Alway have a data back up as part of your contract stored somewhere safe and secure. CSV file is usally a great universal format to move from one app to the next.

Kinda reminds me of some accounting software (quickbooks). Its great for importing data from other systems, but it will not export the data when you want to move on to better packages. (even if you have the account/password)

You may have to use a combination of 3rd party purchased export utilities and some hacking to export to your data.

So she's been working on this system without the userid and password all this time? THAT sounds like the problem to me.

i have a client that is getting rid of her old patient management system and installing a new one. She is trying to gain access to the data in the old system so the data can be transferred to the new system. The old system is a SCO Unix based PC. I'm not sure the type of database system it is running.

Here lies the problem. The company that sold her the old system does not want to give her the userid and password for the old system because they say doing so will give her access to their proprietary system. This is BS because that is like Microsoft saying you can use Word to create documents and print them but you cannot access them to save them.....

Thanks. Originally Posted by satexasguy

Herein is the problem. She may have the records in the system, but if she purchased a ready to go program, without any program writing on her part, she probably does not have any right to see the internal working of the system which the password controls.

Her password would give her access to the files. For most data base programs there is probably an import/export program. Most of these systems are tab deliminated, or paragraph/line deliminated. These settings will be capable of being exported to another data base, or a spreadsheet like excell.

Stay away from any program by Microsoft, except excell which they purchased and did not write. You absolutely need a program that is not connected to the computer operating system like Microsoft Word.

For the unix system I would suggest giving Filemaker pro a try, It can serve as a front end to the Unix system and can be loaded on either a Windows or a Mac machine.

Excell loads directly into Filemaker. But I would suggest that you view the spread sheet data first to see how it loads. You want to be sure that the fields are aligned and labeled as you want. (Is the first row data, or is it the name of the column?)

Again, which password is being used. Usually their are some permitted items with every password. She probably has an administrator password and not just a data input that would be used by the front office. The doctor, will without a doubt have something more.

I think we are talking about two things. They will not give her the ability to take the system down to the programing level, or they loose their investment.

Import and export are something else. A good data-base programmer may help. Most DB programmers know how to parse the data to add codes before and after the old data for controls on the export into new fields.

The confusion comes with the new relational DB where multiple tables feed information to each other. e.g. The patient information feeds into the information for office visits. (patient 123 in the address file only has the basic information for the name, address, phone numbers, etc.) while the patient number 123 in the office visit file would only have the information for date of visit and office notes) The tables are connected by the patient ID number 123. A prescription table would connect the same way, and give a list of all prescriptions used by patient 123 and add the patients address data from the address file.

Flat files attempt to get all of the data in one file, and that becomes difficult.

Seriously, look at Filemaker. There are lists of certified programers. They serve as the control front to huge data base like UPS, they can be accessed from remote locations, read other data base systems, etc. In addition the mobile program, Filemaker Go allows the system to be accessed on an Ipad or Iphone so that the information is available on the go and entries can be made without using a computer. I access files all over the country with filemaker Pro by using the IP address, no web site is required. You use any web access program and enter the IP address to handshake the two machines and enter your password. The Iphone and Ipad use the same system to enter directly into the master files.

I just hope that they did not lock her out completely.

JR

Added thought:

Quicken can be added as the business front to filemaker and use the account reports already set up in Quicken. The main problem with using quicken is that the problem of entering all of the vendor information for checks. Enter all of the information into filemaker so you can access everything you need. Feed it into Quicken to use their check writing and payment entry to feed back to filemaker. This trick saves a lot of time and worry.

JR

YES your Client owns the data. From what you said about needing a User ID/Password sounds like the Backend Database writes it into the Database File with some form of Encryption or something.

I know when I did DB programming back in the 90's this was one way I protected myself. As someone else alluded to, there may have been some laws passed I am not aware of that prohibits encrypting data without providing a Key or something.

Any NEW database program they plan on using, I would make sure it uses some form of Standard SQL database format. That way you can buy & use 3rd Part Report Writers & other things to do whatever you want.