Complete Idiot

Looks like the rhetoric is going to continue:

Say What? Democrat Compares Republicans to Nazis

Papa, come on bro did you expect anything different, their just setting the stage for the 2012 elections, thats what every decision made in Washington is about, which this get me re-elected or anymore member of my party elected. This is their version of death panels LOL.

On a side note, I thought when I clicked on this to read the post that because of the title it was going to be about JG LOL................

Ya, I thought it was going to be about the Alabama Governor Christian nut job.

Ya, I thought it was going to be about the Alabama Governor Christian nut job. Originally Posted by royamcr

LOL. Well, I think "Complete Idiot" would have also been appropriate for him as well. The governor may be a good example of the danger in mixing one's personal religious beliefs and having political power. How much monies in the public coffers of Alabama might be directed to Christian organizations as opposed to non-denominational or non-Christian organizations. At least he made his beliefs known so the watchdog and 1st Amendment groups are alerted to him and will know to keep an eye on him.

Fascinating, what started as a thread about outrageous, vitriolic, hateful rhetoric from a Democratic representative turns into a diatribe against a Republican govenor within 2 posts. You guys are good. sorry, continue talking among yourselves.

The representative in question couldn't defend himself from CNN's John King to save his life. He denied calling the Republicans Nazis. He said Joseph Goebbles was the master of propaganda and that if one continues to repeat, repeat and repeat, that the gullible will believe the lies that are told. If you will look at your history of Karl Rove, Lee Atwater, and should I say........... Bob Dole, this is a tactic they've used well to get their agenda through or destroy a person they want to neutralize. The Dems are no less guilty either, but they can't hold a candle to to their GOP counterparts. I'm not sure this Republican is very optimistic about the future. Obama was put in office to work for jobs, jobs jobs. He didn't do that, he put all of his chits into healthcare. Now, McConnell and Boehner want to kill health care, put the insurance companies back in charge of health care, work to make Obama fail, and tax breaks for the rich. I guess I sound like a RINO, so I'll just say I haven't left the Republican Party, It's left me (a long time ago, I think). I can't wait to hear Limbaugh and Palin jump on the Nazi issue. Maybe a lot of those in D.C. are using the tactics Nazis used. They twist the truth enough as it is, and face it, how many politicians ever stick to the truth? Sad, we never learn from History, because it tends to repeat itself. Thanks for letting me vent. N2

Tax breaks to the rich...really. That old argument? You can't give poor people tax breaks...most don't pay taxes. And be careful of the definition of "rich"...it' gets lower and lower all the time. Well, actually it stays the same but with inflation salaries get higher (even if they don't outpace inflation) and before you know it, someone is now "rich", even though they are in the middle of the earnings pile. And it's well-documented. "Rich" people invest their money. Investment leads to jobs....pure and simple. Our company just had a private owner dump a few million dollars into our company (it's privately held). That money helped pay down debt and reinvest in the infrastructure which has saved several hundred jobs across the country. The capital expenditures are indirectly employing hundreds of others. Our company is continuing as a viable, profitable company. All because "rich" people wanted a return on the money. But I guess it'd be best for all if he was taxed that money and the Federal Government decided who got it...right?

Now, McConnell and Boehner want to kill health care, put the insurance companies back in charge of health care. Originally Posted by N2SEX46

Although I support the idea of the health care bill, the problem with it is that the Insurance Companies are STILL IN CHARGE. The health care bill did not change that, in fact it strenghtned it. Without the government option there is no competition. The goverment now mandates that an insurance company must ensure everyone. But it does not limit how much can be charged. So yeah they will ensure you with the bad heart and diabettes for only $700.00 a month. The government option would have forced the private sector to become competative. I know what your thinking, the competition between the private companies will drive the costs down, WRONG, because they practice colusion in determining prices. If company A charges $300.00, company B will not undercut that, because they know, you have to have it so if all companies charge the same then the price can be whatever they set it at. All this new Health care bill does is provide aid to the insurance companies, while fingering the asshole of the common man who is ignorent of the way things work and who believes that the bill will actually benefit them, in order to get a political feather for the party.

All that being said, I do not support repealing the bill, but I do think it needs some major fixes and one of them is a way to regulate against over charging and to ensure those who have no money, can get insurance.

It's very simple. There are already examples of Federal Health Care....look at the VA. Do you think anyone goes to the VA if they can afford anything else? No. And if they can't get it right only dealing with Veterans, who thinks they'll do a better job when the volume is higher.

Bottom line, insurance is based upon distributed risks. You pay according to associated risk. If you deviate from that, then you're mandating they take on marginal cases that will surely take out more from the system than they put in, then you'll have to find another way to fund it. Either way, it'll mean rates across the board go up for everyone, or tax dollars will be raised to offset the difference. Either way it becomes a tax (even if it's paid to the insurance company and not Uncle Sam) and it will cost everyone more. The money has to come from somewhere! You can't just shit money. I've tried. And if you can't fund it, what's the point in having a bill?

sens your smart but insurance is based on greed & docs are like vampires my mom goes to a doc who hits her knee & feet & ask her to walk around it cost 200 & hour but he's the one who sends her to other docs who then do something about her problems but the insurance want pay intill he says so. The biggest pimps are docs, preachers & ceo

Maybe. But if we are asking people or companies to take a risk they should have a reasonable reward. Doctors may be a necessary evil. Buthey spent damn near 10 years of their life and hundreds of thousands of dollars to become one. Why would they do that if the payoff was minimum wage. If you want mediocre doctors then pay them a mediocre wage. I've seen it in France. A doctor there makes slightly more than a teacher. Sounds good on paper. But trust me,you don't want a person cutting you open that made a career choice between teaching HS Chemistry and becoming a surgeon. And I'm not saying our system is perfect trust me. I've seen some quacks. As I like to say it's a proven fact that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class (a point I've had people argue with me about!) I'm just saying nothing is free. If we force these changes we are going to have to pay for them. Period.

Congressmen stick their foots in their mouths all the time. This new guy just has poor timing. He's already apologized for how he said it, but not for the idea that he was stating. "If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth." is misattributed to Goebbels. So it makes sense that the Congressman would reference Goebbels (a Nazi).

The delicious irony that it isn't a Goebbels quote makes me all kinds of happy inside.

That said, I think it was a good point to be made. House Republicans need to be called on their lies...and they're telling whoppers about healthcare reform right now.

Tax breaks to the rich...really. Really. That old argument? Yep. Because it's true. You can't give poor people tax breaks...most don't pay taxes. What's your definition of "poor"? Proof? And be careful of the definition of "rich"...it' gets lower and lower all the time. Taxing amounts over $250,000 (upper 2%) in personal income per year or over $1 million per year (super elite)...take your pick. Well, actually it stays the same but with inflation salaries get higher (even if they don't outpace inflation) and before you know it, someone is now "rich", even though they are in the middle of the earnings pile. When is the top 2% in the middle? And it's well-documented. "Rich" people invest their money. ...by spending it on hookers, drugs, obscene luxury items, and vacations to places that are outside of the United States. They are literally flying money out of the country. The rest they just let sit in offshore banks in the Cayman Islands. Investment leads to jobs....pure and simple. Trickle down BS. Demand leads to jobs. Demand is always the driver. Always. Give the people with the most demand the most tax breaks. Our company just had a private owner dump a few million dollars into our company (it's privately held). That money helped pay down debt and reinvest in the infrastructure which has saved several hundred jobs across the country. The capital expenditures are indirectly employing hundreds of others. Our company is continuing as a viable, profitable company. All because of demand. All because "rich" people wanted a return on the money. But I guess it'd be best for all if he was taxed that money and the Federal Government decided who got it...right? He'd still be rich. You'd still have your job. The tax receipts would be put to use immediately to hire Americans and put them back to work fighting crime, sickness, hunger, poverty, etc...and fixing our infrastructure. Originally Posted by Sens55

Besides, don't you think that the taxpayers below the upper 2% can invest? Let's say a guy 'only' makes $175,000/year. Why can't we let that guy do some investing? Let's lighten his burden by reducing the amount he'll need to pay in taxes for the rest of his life by letting the Bush Tax cuts expire for the upper 2%. That's hundreds of billions of dollars in just a few years.

According to the CBO, extending the tax cuts for the upper 2% produces the lowest Return On Investment (32 cents on the dollar) towards stimulating the economy. The lower down the income ladder you go, the more ROI you get.

Maybe. But if we are asking people or companies to take a risk they should have a reasonable reward. Doctors may be a necessary evil. Doctors are evil?!? Buthey spent damn near 10 years of their life and hundreds of thousands of dollars to become one. Become what, an evil doctor? Why would they do that if the payoff was minimum wage. Nobody is proposing minimum wage for evil doctors. Or even non-evil doctors. If you want mediocre doctors then pay them a mediocre wage. I've seen it in France. Wait. You've seen mediocre evil French doctors? Or were they non-evil? I'm confused. A doctor there makes slightly more than a teacher. French teachers are evil. Mon Dieu! Sounds good on paper. But trust me,you don't want a person cutting you open that made a career choice between teaching HS Chemistry and becoming a surgeon. Yeah, all French people must be dead by now because they have poorly paid mediocre evil doctors. Oh wait...they're alive? How is that possible?!? And there are 65 million of them? And I'm not saying our system is perfect trust me. It isn't even close. Insurance companies are middlemen that skim money from our healthcare system and have a profit motive to deny coverage to our most vulnerable, our sick and injured. Americans suffer and die every day because of this. I've seen some quacks. Mirror, mirror on the wall...As I like to say it's a proven fact that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class (a point I've had people argue with me about!) Agreed. I'm just saying nothing is free. If we force these changes we are going to have to pay for them. How? I'd like to tax the upper 2% for starters. I haven't heard any conservative ideas. Period. Period. Originally Posted by Sens55

What's YOUR idea? How would YOU pay for 'Obamacare'?

I've heard a lot of noise about repealing it and starting over. What's the alternative plan? Is it a secret? Or do Republicans not have a plan?

The reality is that the health insurance companies are playing both sides and winning to a large degree. Not totally, but to a large degree. Right now, the health insurance companies DON'T WANT Obamacare repealed. They just want some of the regulatory restrictions repealed. If they haven't already bribed House Republicans to get what they want, I'm sure they're going to soon. Hopefully, there is a scandal and a cover up.

If you believe the government would do a better job with the money than someone who managed to become wealthy by the sweat of his brow, you're nuts. You seem to have a very poor opinion of "rich" people. And surely there are some bad ones out there. But there are many good ones too. Many. I know several people who's net worth is well into the millions. And most of them are people you would never suspect of being rich. Well-off, sure. But they live in normal-sized houses, drive nice, but not extravagant cars and actually go to work each day to run their business.

As far as poor people not paying taxes...look it up dude! That tax does allows those making less than $8500 or so to have to pay anything at all. They pay a marginal rate up to $34,000 and that's before any deductions or credits or anything else. You mention a rich person being in the top 2%. That shows you don't quite get finance. You're referencing an INCOME tax. Most "rich" people have relatively little income. Most don't work jobs and get paychecks. Their income works for them. They are being taxed on profits, their holdings, their personal property (which is substantial in many cases) and any investment income they may have. And they can't just file a 1040 EZ come tax time. They have to pay thousands to CPA's to make sure they don't go to jail, which is basically a tax since it's a necessity to comply with the law. And keep in mind, their rates are higher and the amounts are higher. They are paying the biggest portion of the tax collected. I believe upper middle class people (families making about $75,000-150,000) probably pay the biggest percentage of their earnings to taxes because they make enough to pay a shitload of taxes but don't really earn enough to afford the top-notch investment strategists to help legally lower what they should pay.

As far as my company, you're dead wrong. We would have gone out of business. And literally over 1,000 people would be looking for jobs. That wealthy individual that paid in did it because it will earn him a significant return on his investment over time. He's shown himself to be a decent, caring and hard-working partner that wants all of us to succeed and feels an obligation to help us do so. But, of course, he wants us to make him money too. He's not doing it for free. But if you believe the government would do a better job with that money, you're delusional. Why put 1000 people out of work, take the money and give it back in welfare? That's insane.

What do I propose about ObamaCare? I don't. It's a piece of shit legislation that never should have seen the light of day and will now send Obama to realms of obscurity. Years from now they'll be debating who was the worst President in the US. Carter or Obama?