It would be an overreach of their authority and a failure to keep the records confidential except as needed in closed sessions for their legislative purpose.
As such, they should vote not to release them publicly
- HDGristle
- 12-20-2022, 01:13 PM
- String Nutts
- 12-20-2022, 01:30 PM
- Cody69
- 12-20-2022, 02:05 PM
Trump has said from the time he ran for President for the first time, if he wasn't going through an audit he would gladly show his taxes. They are only fulfilling his promise. Don't misconstrued with them only helping him do his wishes.
- The_Waco_Kid
- 12-20-2022, 03:36 PM
It would be an overreach of their authority and a failure to keep the records confidential except as needed in closed sessions for their legislative purpose.
As such, they should vote not to release them publicly Originally Posted by HDGristle
they have no legal authority to release them in the first place. i also question that the Ways and Means committee has legal authority to even get them as their stated "reason" as far as i've heard is "oversight of the IRS" which implies they think they can find some sort of tax crime that the IRS hasn't while reviewing Trump's taxes for decades now. the IRS has in fact found things several times but no crimes. things like differences of opinion in writeoff and deduction amounts. these aren't crimes and are things that Joe Citizen gets flagged for every day. they get settled. it's not criminal.
the Supreme Count has ruled several times over the decades that Congress does not have absolute power to obtain a private citizen's returns, they need a reason. the reason here appears to be Trump was president since ultimately the courts ruled in favor of the Ways and Means committee and i presume their pretext is they are convinced Trump took money from foreign sources. that in itself isn't a crime, certainly not considering Trump has many international properties.
i doubt that the committee can find anything at all that would be a crime of any kind. money from Russia wouldn't be a crime by default. you'd have to prove some sort of criminal intent, bribery, or some such. even as president money from foreign sources while a "potential" conflict of interest does not make a crime by default especially considering Trump stepped away from day to day running of the Trump Org as president. was he aware of inside details of the Trump Org via his kids while president? certainly. anything illegal about that? No. Trump actually has the right to know the business details of his own Organization and being president doesn't bar that.
recall that the IRS has already seen all 4 years of his returns as president and flagged nothing of any criminal intent or we'd know it long ago. the IRS wouldn't cover for a sitting president. and they've seen his returns prior to becoming president too and beyond disputes on basic things like deductions have not made any claims of criminal tax evasion or anything else. Trump's personal returns are a rabbit hole.
without a valid reason Congress would actually be committing a crime by releasing them. that would have to be as part of proof of some crime and i don't see the committee finding anything there that the IRS didn't.
and the reason Trump declined to release them and there is no legal requirement as a presidential candidate as part of the process of filing to run (he did file required financial statements as required but his personal returns aren't required) is he's not as rich as he claims and doesn't make as much year to year as he wants people to think. yeah .. it's that simple.
- HDGristle
- 12-20-2022, 04:05 PM
The pretext was to use the records regarding legislation they would craft as part of their committee work regarding how the IRS addresses current and past presidents.
And it should only be used for that purpose, and handled with appropriate confidentiality.
And it should only be used for that purpose, and handled with appropriate confidentiality.
- The_Waco_Kid
- 12-20-2022, 04:44 PM
The pretext was to use the records regarding legislation they would craft as part of their committee work regarding how the IRS addresses current and past presidents.
And it should only be used for that purpose, and handled with appropriate confidentiality. Originally Posted by HDGristle
agree completely it should be confidential. without Trump's express consent they can't be publicly released and we all know that's never gonna happen. i find the pretext flimsy to say the least. past presidents? lol that's a "cover their ass" contention. without it they would clearly be singling out Trump, which they are. where was their "concern" about past presidents before? most presidents weren't particularly wealthy prior to being elected with the exception of the Bush clan. who really cares after the fact? doesn't concern me one bit all the loot Clinton or Obama made as ex-presidents. or Trump.
i'm sure most here remember the "Geraldo and Capone's vault-like" moment poor pouty Rachel Maddow had with her much ballyhooed "we got Trump's tax returns!!!" expose that actually showed for the years they obtained Trump actually paid millions in taxes. bahahahhaaaaa
- The_Waco_Kid
- 12-20-2022, 07:14 PM
well. they are. bad move. illegal move. all of them should be kicked out of office. this is illegal and proves it was all a political stunt. so much for that "cover story" about "oversight of presidential tax returns"
told ya.
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/d...010402442.html
Democratic lawmakers vote to release former President Trump’s tax returns
Ben Werschkul·Washington Correspondent
Tue, December 20, 2022 at 7:04 PM CST
Democrats on the House Ways and Means committee voted Tuesday to release former President Donald Trump’s tax returns in a move that opponents say will have “severe consequences.”
The vote was 24-16 on a party-line basis.
The six years of returns — spanning from 2015-2020 — will be released to the public in the coming days after the documents are prepared by staffers to redact information like Social Security numbers, street addresses, and other identifying data.
The returns will be released as part of a larger committee report on the IRS practice of auditing presidents and marks the end of a long partisan battle that began when then-candidate Trump broke years of tradition by refusing to release his tax returns during the 2016 presidential campaign.
"After a long process, this was not about being punitive, this was not about being malicious," Committee chairman Richard Neal (D-MA) said Tuesday after the vote.
Former President Donald Trump during an event at his Mar-a-Lago estate in November to announce that he will once again run in 2024. (REUTERS/Jonathan Ernst)
The committee had a range of options on the table from keeping the returns private for now or releasing a summary to releasing all or part of the returns themselves and opting to send the documents to the full House of Representatives, which has the effect of making them public.
The move drew intense condemnation from Republicans on the committee and across Washington.
"Democrats are unleashing a dangerous new political weapon that is going to have severe consequences," GOP ranking member Kevin Brady (R-TX) said Tuesday.
Republicans will take control of the powerful tax-writing committee in just a few weeks and wouldn’t say if today’s move will lead to reprisals.
"I won't speculate on what the next Congress and this committee will focus on related to tax returns,” Brady said. "But I do know a big focus will be on the IRS."
Before the hearing, House Ways and Means Committee Ranking Member Rep. Kevin Brady (R-TX) addressed reporters next to a sign decrying the idea of releasing Trump's tax returns. (REUTERS/Evelyn Hockstein)
Brady is retiring this year and Rep. Vern Buchanan (R-FL) is one of the candidates to replace him atop the committee next year. Buchanan has called the move “an extremely slippery slope and would make clear no American is safe from being targeted for their personal or political beliefs.”
Still, there was very little that Republicans could do Tuesday with Democrats in control of the panel and voting in unison.
Six years of returns
With the documents themselves still awaiting preparation, it remains to be seen what new details might be uncovered that aren’t already publicly known. In 2020, the New York Times obtained a trove of Trump’s tax return data going back decades. But they didn't include returns from certain years that are now in the possession of House Democrats, such as 2018 or 2019 while Trump was in office.
Those leaked returns showed that Trump paid just $750 in federal income taxes in 2016 when he won the presidency and another $750 the year after. He also paid no federal income taxes in 11 of the 18 years that The Times examined.
Prosecutors in New York have also obtained access to some of Trump’s tax data, but have not released them publicly.
House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Rep. Richard Neal (D-MA) speaks with Ranking Member Rep. Kevin Brady (R-TX) during the meeting to discuss former President Donald Trump's tax returns. (REUTERS/Evelyn Hockstein)
Tuesday’s hearing, while historic, was also a quick affair at least when it came to the cameras. Chairman Neal opened the review of the confidential materials and moved quickly into a private session after agreeing to a motion from Brady that a transcript of the private meeting would be made public.
Then, more than four hours later, the cameras were turned back on, reporters were let back into the room, and the voting promptly got underway.
Tuesday's events provided a bookend of sorts for Neal, who is handing over his gavel at the end of the year. In 2019, Democrats took control of the panel and Neal headed the committee, beginning his effort for the returns and arguing that the committee needed them as part of a larger look at an Internal Revenue Service program of auditing sitting presidents.
told you HDG it was bullshit any pretext about past presidents and all about Trump. you are right .. it is a huge mistake. and the Republicans will release Obama's returns when they take control. payback is a bitch.
Speaking to reporters after the vote, Rep. Brady again criticized the actionsaying, "what was clear today is that public disclosure of President Trump's private tax returns has nothing to do to do with the stated purpose of reviewing the IRS presidential audit process."
Republicans have long disputed that the returns were being pursued for a legitimate legislative purpose, charging that the real reason was simply to make them public as a means to embarrass the former president.
Ben Werschkul is a Washington correspondent for Yahoo Finance.
Read the latest financial and business news from Yahoo Finance
Follow Yahoo Finance on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Flipboard, LinkedIn, YouTube, and reddit.
told ya.
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/d...010402442.html
Democratic lawmakers vote to release former President Trump’s tax returns
Ben Werschkul·Washington CorrespondentTue, December 20, 2022 at 7:04 PM CST
Democrats on the House Ways and Means committee voted Tuesday to release former President Donald Trump’s tax returns in a move that opponents say will have “severe consequences.”
The vote was 24-16 on a party-line basis.
The six years of returns — spanning from 2015-2020 — will be released to the public in the coming days after the documents are prepared by staffers to redact information like Social Security numbers, street addresses, and other identifying data.
The returns will be released as part of a larger committee report on the IRS practice of auditing presidents and marks the end of a long partisan battle that began when then-candidate Trump broke years of tradition by refusing to release his tax returns during the 2016 presidential campaign.
"After a long process, this was not about being punitive, this was not about being malicious," Committee chairman Richard Neal (D-MA) said Tuesday after the vote.
Former President Donald Trump during an event at his Mar-a-Lago estate in November to announce that he will once again run in 2024. (REUTERS/Jonathan Ernst)
The committee had a range of options on the table from keeping the returns private for now or releasing a summary to releasing all or part of the returns themselves and opting to send the documents to the full House of Representatives, which has the effect of making them public.
The move drew intense condemnation from Republicans on the committee and across Washington.
"Democrats are unleashing a dangerous new political weapon that is going to have severe consequences," GOP ranking member Kevin Brady (R-TX) said Tuesday.
Republicans will take control of the powerful tax-writing committee in just a few weeks and wouldn’t say if today’s move will lead to reprisals.
"I won't speculate on what the next Congress and this committee will focus on related to tax returns,” Brady said. "But I do know a big focus will be on the IRS."
Before the hearing, House Ways and Means Committee Ranking Member Rep. Kevin Brady (R-TX) addressed reporters next to a sign decrying the idea of releasing Trump's tax returns. (REUTERS/Evelyn Hockstein)
Brady is retiring this year and Rep. Vern Buchanan (R-FL) is one of the candidates to replace him atop the committee next year. Buchanan has called the move “an extremely slippery slope and would make clear no American is safe from being targeted for their personal or political beliefs.”
Still, there was very little that Republicans could do Tuesday with Democrats in control of the panel and voting in unison.
Six years of returns
With the documents themselves still awaiting preparation, it remains to be seen what new details might be uncovered that aren’t already publicly known. In 2020, the New York Times obtained a trove of Trump’s tax return data going back decades. But they didn't include returns from certain years that are now in the possession of House Democrats, such as 2018 or 2019 while Trump was in office.
Those leaked returns showed that Trump paid just $750 in federal income taxes in 2016 when he won the presidency and another $750 the year after. He also paid no federal income taxes in 11 of the 18 years that The Times examined.
Prosecutors in New York have also obtained access to some of Trump’s tax data, but have not released them publicly.
House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Rep. Richard Neal (D-MA) speaks with Ranking Member Rep. Kevin Brady (R-TX) during the meeting to discuss former President Donald Trump's tax returns. (REUTERS/Evelyn Hockstein)
Tuesday’s hearing, while historic, was also a quick affair at least when it came to the cameras. Chairman Neal opened the review of the confidential materials and moved quickly into a private session after agreeing to a motion from Brady that a transcript of the private meeting would be made public.
Then, more than four hours later, the cameras were turned back on, reporters were let back into the room, and the voting promptly got underway.
Tuesday's events provided a bookend of sorts for Neal, who is handing over his gavel at the end of the year. In 2019, Democrats took control of the panel and Neal headed the committee, beginning his effort for the returns and arguing that the committee needed them as part of a larger look at an Internal Revenue Service program of auditing sitting presidents.
told you HDG it was bullshit any pretext about past presidents and all about Trump. you are right .. it is a huge mistake. and the Republicans will release Obama's returns when they take control. payback is a bitch.
Speaking to reporters after the vote, Rep. Brady again criticized the actionsaying, "what was clear today is that public disclosure of President Trump's private tax returns has nothing to do to do with the stated purpose of reviewing the IRS presidential audit process."
Republicans have long disputed that the returns were being pursued for a legitimate legislative purpose, charging that the real reason was simply to make them public as a means to embarrass the former president.
Ben Werschkul is a Washington correspondent for Yahoo Finance.
Read the latest financial and business news from Yahoo Finance
Follow Yahoo Finance on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Flipboard, LinkedIn, YouTube, and reddit.
- HDGristle
- 12-20-2022, 08:42 PM
Definitely a mistake
- The_Waco_Kid
- 12-20-2022, 08:51 PM
- The_Waco_Kid
- 12-20-2022, 08:55 PM
- berryberry
- 12-21-2022, 12:26 AM
What a joke. And a slap in the face to the Supreme Court who these crazy ass leftists lied to regarding the purpose of getting these returns
Mica Soellner: Scoop: Ways and Means Committee members voted to release Barron Trump’s personal ID information, including name and social security number, per source in the room.
J.P Friere - Spokesman for the House Ways and Means Committee - Democrats voted to release the materials unredacted.
Seems like someone slapped a tiny bit of sense into these criminals as later they said "a “good faith effort” would be made on redactions."
GOP members raised skepticisms about it, calling the process “rushed” and politically-motivated
Mica Soellner: Scoop: Ways and Means Committee members voted to release Barron Trump’s personal ID information, including name and social security number, per source in the room.
J.P Friere - Spokesman for the House Ways and Means Committee - Democrats voted to release the materials unredacted.
Seems like someone slapped a tiny bit of sense into these criminals as later they said "a “good faith effort” would be made on redactions."
GOP members raised skepticisms about it, calling the process “rushed” and politically-motivated
- berryberry
- 12-21-2022, 12:34 AM
If the GOP had any balls, in January when they take over, they would release the tax returns of Pelosi and every Democrat on this committee who voted for this
Fuck them. The only way you stop this insanity is hit back 10 times harder. But they know most GOP reps don't have the balls to do this.
Meanwhile, the summary report and tax data they already released is a complete joke. It shows these moronic libs in the House have no clue how the IRS audit process works or what documentation taxpayers are required to submit.
Can't wait to see all the sensational headlines from the DNC media who don't have any financial training to understand a complex set of tax returns once they get their marching orders from the crazy ass libs in DC. Then it will even be more hilarious watching all the ill informed, clueless lib voting base make a bunch of stupid conclusions on something they don't understand
Fuck them. The only way you stop this insanity is hit back 10 times harder. But they know most GOP reps don't have the balls to do this.
Meanwhile, the summary report and tax data they already released is a complete joke. It shows these moronic libs in the House have no clue how the IRS audit process works or what documentation taxpayers are required to submit.
Can't wait to see all the sensational headlines from the DNC media who don't have any financial training to understand a complex set of tax returns once they get their marching orders from the crazy ass libs in DC. Then it will even be more hilarious watching all the ill informed, clueless lib voting base make a bunch of stupid conclusions on something they don't understand