What if all the illegal aliens for the North, South, east and west and outer space..

had to go home? Would there be enough jobs to employ all Americans, born and legal?

BY THE NUMBERS
How Many Illegal Immigrants?



Illegal Immigrant Problems & Statistics

FAIR estimates that in 2007 the illegal immigrant population is above 13 million persons. Government and academic estimates indicate that as of 2006 there were 11 to 12 million illegal immigrants living in the United States. The Center for Immigration Studies estimated the illegal immigrant population at 10 million as of November 2004.
It is difficult to have an exact figure because the illegal nature of their presence prevents any enumeration, but the U.S. Census Bureau estimated 8.7 million illegal immigrants were here in 2000, and immigration officials estimate that the illegal immigrant population grows by as many as 500,000 every year.
Estimated Distribution of the Illegal Immigrant Population

The nationalities of the illegal immigrant population in the Census Bureau estimate and INS estimate for 2000 are as follow:

The estimate by the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) issued in February 2003 put the number of resident illega immigrants at seven million (as of Jan. 2000), 4.8 million of whom were Mexican and 2.2 million of whom resided in California. That estimate included the annual rate of increase in the illegal immigrant population -- 350,000 with 73,200 (31.6%) of that annual increase taking up residence in California. So, by 2003, the illegal immigrant population would have increased to over eight million.
The method by which the INS arrived at this estimate was based on data collected as a result of the 1986 amnesty and then relied on Census data and INS legal immigration data and airline arrival/departure records for updating the estimate. The estimate included only immigrants who continued to reside illegally in the United States for more than one year. Left out of the estimate were immigrants doing seasonal work illegally in the United States and all immigrants during the first year of overstaying the terms of an authorized nonimmigrant entry, as well groups of illegal immigrant residents who were issued work permits under programs such as Temporary Protected Status (TPS).
The 2000 Census, like all previous censuses, made no attempt to determine the immigration status of foreign-born residents. Nevertheless, the results of the Census did contribute to a re-evaluation of the size of the illegal immigrant population. Most analysts agree that the illegal immigrant population now numbers more than 10-11 million persons as is shown below.
The first estimates that challenged the INS estimates appeared from labor force researchers at Northeastern University.1 They estimated in 2001 that the illegal immigrant population could be as large as 11 million. They later revised that estimate upward to 12 million.
The director of the Census Bureau, when asked about the much higher estimate of the illegal immigrant population agreed that the 2000 Census data indicated that the illegal immigrant estimate of the INS was too low, but did not offer a different estimate.
In the August 2001 issue of Demography, immigration researchers estimated the current total population of illegal immigrants at 7.1 million, of whom 3.9 million were Mexicans. Also in August, a demographer at the Urban Institute issued an estimate that the illegal immigrant population was 8.5 million, with 4.5 million of them being Mexican.
The Census Bureau issued an estimate in January 2002 that the illegal immigrant population in 2000 was 8,705,421. That estimate was based on the discrepancy between the number of foreign-born residents and the number of legally admitted immigrants. Included in that number may be immigrants residing in the United States under provisions that preclude their deportation, but who are not legal permanent residents, such as beneficiaries of Section 245(i) petitions, or asylees who have not been in the country long enough for adjustment of status, or Central American beneficiaries of the NACARA legislation. The Census Bureau estimate is preliminary and subject to modification after review of the methodology by interested parties.
An independent estimate by analysts of the bear-Stearns investment firm said the illegal immigrant population "…may be as high as 20 million people."2 This estimate dismisses lower official estimates as being flawed by the non-response of illegal immigrant to census takers. However, this conclusion misses the fact that the official estimates are instead based on a comparison between the growth in the foreign-born population and new legal immigrant arrivals. This allows the trend in the illegal immigrant population to be observed despite non-response in the Census.
TIME Magazine in a feature article in 2004 published an estimate of three million illegal immigrants arriving each year.3 However, that estimate was based on a mistaken assumption that a million illegal immigrants are being apprehended each year and three times as many avoid apprehension. The actual number of persons apprehended is considerably lower than one million because the same individual often may be apprehended multiple times during the year.
The following table shows estimates of the illegal immigrant population by state by the INS, DHS4 and the Pew Hispanic Center5 as well as the current estimates by FAIR. (Numbers are thousands).
View Table >
Amnesty proposals for granting legal residence to these illegal immigrants take various forms, and the number of proposed beneficiaries vary depending on the proposal. For example, in the 1986 general amnesty, illegal immigrants other than those in agricultural work were eligible only if they had been living in the United States for four years (since 1982). Thus, the nearly three million beneficiaries did not include illegal immigrants who had arrived during the previous four years (unless they presented fraudulent evidence of having arrived earlier, as many of them did).
Although the number of illegal immigrants in the country can only be estimated, and it is unclear what form currently proposed amnesty provisions might take, it is safe from the above analysis to conclude that any new amnesty would likely involve as many as four times as many illegal immigrants as benefited from the 1986 amnesty.




[1] "Feds Undercount Illegal Aliens," NewsMax.com, (March 16, 2001).
[2] Robert Justich and Betty Ng, “The Underground Labor Force is Rising to the Surface,” Bear Sterns, January 3, 2005.
[3] Barlett, Donald and James Steele, ”Who Left the Door Open?,” TIME Magazine, September 12, 2004.
[4] The most recent estimates by DHS only show the estimate for the 10 states with the largest illegal alien population
[5] Pew Hispanic Center estimates of the illegal immigration population are stated as a range, e.g., Capfornia 2.5 million to 2.75 million. The chart shows the mid-point of the estimate, e.g. California 2.625 million.
Updated 11/08

Editorial - How Many Americans Are Really Unemployed?

Submitted by The Editor on Wed, 08/11/2010 - 08:30How many people in the U.S. are actually unemployed during this Great Recession? On Monday of this week Bob Herbert of The New York Times wrote an Op-Ed about what the actual numbers might look like, and if accurate, the totals are a travesty.
The Government has actually contributed to the unemployment problem rather than put people to work, and it appears to be getting worst. The editorial quotes a cheif economist as saying that 1,155,000 have dropped out of the active labor force in the last three months and were not counted in the official numbers as unemployed.
He also says the official percentage of unemployed (if all the unemployed were actually counted) would actually be 10.2 percent as of July.
The editorial also says that the numbers actually are as follows; "With 14.6 million people officially jobless, and 5.9 million who have stopped looking but say they want a job, and 8.5 million who are working part time but would like to work full time, you end up with nearly 30 million Americans who cannot find the work they want and desperately need."
I wonder why we are not being told the actual official numbers?
To read the whole editorial click to: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/10/opinion/10herbert.html
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BLS
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf
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Somehow, the Unemployed Became Invisible

By CATHERINE RAMPELL

Published: July 9, 2011

GRIM number of the week: 14,087,000.
Fourteen million, in round numbers — that is how many Americans are now officially out of work.
Word came Friday from the Labor Department that, despite all the optimistic talk of an economic recovery, unemployment is going up, not down. The jobless rate rose to 9.2 percent in June.
What gives? And where, if anywhere, is the outrage?
The United States is in the grips of its gravest jobs crisis since Franklin D. Roosevelt was in the White House. Lose your job, and it will take roughly nine months to find a new one. That is off the charts. Many Americans have simply given up.
But unless you’re one of those unhappy 14 million, you might not even notice the problem. The budget deficit, not jobs, has been dominating the conversation in Washington. Unlike the hard-pressed in, say, Greece or Spain, the jobless in America seem, well, subdued. The old fire has gone out.
In some ways, this boils down to math, both economic and political. Yes, 9.2 percent of the American work force is unemployed — but 90.8 percent of it is working. To elected officials, the unemployed are a relatively small constituency. And with apologies to Karl Marx, the workers of the world, particularly the unemployed, are also no longer uniting.
Nor are they voting — or at least not as much as people with jobs. In 2010, some 46 percent of working Americans who were eligible to vote did so, compared with 35 percent of the unemployed, according to Michael McDonald, a political scientist at George Mason University. There was a similar turnout gap in the 2008 election.
No wonder policy makers don’t fear unemployed Americans. The jobless are, politically speaking, more or less invisible.
It wasn’t always so. During the Great Depression, riots erupted on the bread lines. Even in the 1980s and 1990s, angry workers descended on Washington by the busload.
“There used to be a sense that unemployment was rich soil for radicalization and revolt,” says Nelson Lichtenstein, a professor of labor history at the University of California, Santa Barbara. “That was a motif in American history for a long time, but we don’t seem to have that anymore.”
But why? It’s partly because of the greater dispersion of the unemployed, and partly because of the weakening of the institutions that previously mobilized them.
Unemployment doesn’t necessarily beget apathy, Mr. McDonald says. Rather, demographic groups that are more likely to be unemployed also happen to be the same groups that are less likely to vote to begin with, such as the poor and the low-skilled.
Even so, numerous studies have shown that unemployment leads to feelings of shame and a loss of self-worth. And that is not particularly conducive to political organizing. As Heather Boushey, an economist at the liberal Center for American Progress, puts it, rather bluntly: “Nobody wants to join the Lame Club.”
That’s not to say that disillusionment about the economy will just fade away. But unless something changes, the unemployed seem unlikely to gain real political potency soon.
“There’s an illusion that grass-roots activity just begins spontaneously, that people get mad and suddenly say, ‘I’m not going to take it anymore!’ ” says Michael Kazin, a historian at Georgetown University. “But that’s not how it happens.”
Intellectuals used to play a big role in organizing labor. In the 1930s, Communists and socialists were a major force. Later, labor unions stepped in.
But today’s unions are not set up to serve the unemployed; they generally organize around workplaces, after all.
Just ask Rick McHugh, who worked in Michigan as an employment lawyer for the United Automobile Workers from the 1980s through the 1990s. He represented workers who were appealing denials of unemployment insurance benefits. The union footed the bill for people he represented who were not, and had never been, U.A.W. members.
Today, however, many unions are fighting for their own survival. They no longer provide such support for nonmembers. “They just don’t have the staff and the resources to support these programs and the recipients like they used to,” says Mr. McHugh, now a staff attorney at the National Employment Law Project.
Workers have also become suburbanized. Back in the 1960s or even the 1980s, the unemployed organized around welfare or unemployment offices. It was a fertile environment: people were anxious and tired and waiting for hours in line.
“We stood outside of these offices, with their huge lines, and passed out leaflets that said things like: ‘If you’re upset about what’s happening to you, come to this meeting at this church basement in two weeks. We’ll get together and do something about this,’ ” recalls Barney Oursler, a longtime community organizer and co-founder of the Mon Valley Unemployed Committee in the early 1980s. “The response just made your heart get big. ‘Oh, my God,’ they’d say, ‘I thought I was alone.’ ”
The Mon Valley Unemployed Committee, which is based in Pittsburgh, helped organize workers in 26 cities across five states, simply by hanging around outside unemployment offices and harnessing the frustration.
Today, though, many unemployment offices have closed. Jobless benefits are often handled by phone or online rather than in person. An unemployment call center near Mr. Oursler, for instance, now sits behind two sets of locked doors and frosted windows.
In other countries, workers have mobilized online. Unions here, too, have reached out on the Web. They include groups like Working America (the community affiliate of the A.F.L.-C.I.O.) and UCubed (created by the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers).
But many Web sites geared toward the unemployed aren’t about mobilizing workers. Many instead provide guidance about things like posting résumés online, or simply offer the comfort of an online community.
It’s not clear why this is the case, when social networks have been so essential to organizing economic protests in places like Britain and Greece, not to mention political movements in the Middle East.
“You have to remember that technology is not independent of social structures, motivations and politics,” Mr. Kazin says. “People can feel like they have their own community online, which is useful emotionally, but they also have to have the desire and demand to do something about their situation first before they start using that online presence to organize anything in person.”
To the extent that frustrations are being channeled at all, they are being channeled largely through the Tea Party. But the Tea Party is mostly against devoting government resources to helping the unemployed.
Tea Party activists, for example, are more likely to believe that providing benefits to poor people encourages them to stay poor, and to believe that economic stimulus has made the economy worse.
Why populist anger over the poor economy is leaning right, rather than left, this time around is a bit of a mystery. Perhaps it is because Democrats, traditional friends of labor, control the White House and the Senate.
Mr. Lichtenstein, the historian, notes that it took awhile for the poor to mobilize in the Great Depression. Many initially saw President Roosevelt as an ally and only later became disillusioned. As Langston Hughes wrote in a 1934 poem, “The Ballad of Roosevelt”:
The pot was empty,
The cupboard was bare.
I said, Papa,
What’s the matter here?
I’m waitin’ on Roosevelt, son,
Roosevelt, Roosevelt,
Waitin’ on Roosevelt, son.
For the moment, jobless Americans are waiting on President Obama. If unemployment stays as high as many expect, and millions exhaust their benefits, they may just find their voice in 2012.


A version of this article appeared in print on July 10, 2011, on page BU1 of the New York edition with the headline: Somehow, the Unemployed Became Invisible.

Technically you're all illegals unless you're Native American Indian.

Technically you're all illegals unless you're Native American Indian. Originally Posted by MsElena

ARE YOU SURE? I was born here. Had I moved here from there, I would have to "earn" citizenship or requested and recieved documentation to live here legally.
Now about those "legal" folks you mentioned. When they.....


Native American History - Early History
The History of Native Americans is both fascinating and in many ways, tragic. Estimates range from about 10 – 90 million Native Americans inhabited America at the time of the European arrivals. They had lived in the land many, many years before white man set foot on their soil. It is believed that during the ice age, they had traveled a land-bridge across the Bering Sound, from Siberia into what is now Alaska. They had gradually migrated across the land and southward into Mexico and beyond. The name “Indian” was given them by Christopher Columbus who mistakenly believed he had landed in the Indies.

They have been labeled Indians, American Indians, and the now preferred Native Americans. They migrated to all regions of the land and were formed into many different tribes or nations. These were a people who adapted well to their particular regions and made wise use of all natural resources available. They believed in respecting the land and the abundance of gifts it offered. They became proficient fishermen, hunters, farmed crops such as corn, and built homes with whatever available resources their territory provided. Some of these included animal skins, sun-dried brick for adobes, or lumber for long houses depending on the regions.
Native American History - Native Americans and the Europeans
The Native Americans of the east coast met the new 16th and 17th century visitors from Europe with enthusiasm. They regarded these bearded white men as strange but were delighted with the steel knives, mirrors, copper kettles, and other intriguing novelties. The indigenous tribes were more than accommodating and hospitable. Without their aid, the first waves of settlers would not have survived in the land they knew little about.

But in time the Europeans disregarded all respect for the valued land and resources and instead displayed insatiable greed and arrogance. The Europeans soon pursued their intent to conquer this new continent with brutal attacks and invasion. The Native Americans soon realized that the invaders would arrive in overwhelming numbers, as many “as the stars in heaven.” Initially, the people of this land tried to co-exist with the Europeans. But many more problems arose. With all their intriguing gadgets, the white men brought deadly diseases to the Native Americans.

The colonists and explorers brought measles, smallpox, cholera, yellow fever, and many more devastating diseases. This drastically diminished the Native American population and annihilated entire villages. In addition to this, the arrogant attitude of the ever-growing whites led to the Indian Wars, the Indian Removal Act (1830), and in 1890 one of the worst massacres ever -- Wounded Knee, South Dakota. Here warriors, women, and children alike were ferociously slaughtered by the U.S. Cavalry. The U.S, government began Relocation Programs and the now famous Trail of Tears march where hundreds of Cherokee died from starvation, exposure, and illnesses. The Native American peoples were not only reduced in number but taken from their homes, stripped of their customs, and even forbidden to speak their native languages. Their children were taken from them and sent to schools to “civilize” them, forced to abandon every aspect of their heritage. In January 1876, the U.S. government forced them to live on ‘reservations’ where the majority of Native Americans still reside today.
Native American History - The 20th Century Native Americans
Some consider Native Americans as a resilient people. The Indian Citizen Act of 1924 offered official citizenship to the Native American tribes. This was partly due to the heroic service of many of them in World War I. Others like Jim Thorpe, Sequoyah, and Sacajawea have represented their people with greatness. There are well over 500 recognized tribal governments currently in the U.S. They are self-governed and considered to be sovereign nations of people within America. There are currently more than 2.48 million Native Americans, according to the 2000 census bureau.

While most still live on the reservations, they are considered some of the most poverty-ridden areas in the United States. Unemployment is 5 times higher than the general U. S. population, according to the 2002 Bureau of Indian Affairs. As with many defeated, oppressed people, they have suffered tremendously from the plagues of alcoholism and suicide. These were once a vibrant and resourceful people. They have been robbed, humiliated, and removed from all they knew. Though many have tried through the centuries to civilize, Christianize, and Americanize the Native American people, there are organizations today that recognize the important heritage of these nations. For example, Wiconi International says “we want to see Indigenous people come to know and experience ultimate freedom, and deliverance from the powers of darkness that still prevail in lands and communities…”
Learn More!

Resources:
nativeamericans.com
Encarta
Wiconi International

Technically you're all illegals unless you're Native American Indian. Originally Posted by MsElena

Bullshit.

The cradle of life didn't begin here in North America. That means that there are no "Native Americans". The "Native Americans" most likely walked across the Bering Strait.

If you use the idea that if you're ancestors weren't originally born here you're an illegal immigrant then there are NO native anyone's, anywhere except most likely somewhere in the North African region.

I'm also sick to death of the BS about how the "Native Americans" were just sitting here, living in harmony, minding their own business before the white man crashed the party and started pissing in the punch bowl. Many of the tribes were the most warlike and violent peoples to ever walk the face of the Earth. Read about the religious practices of the Incans, Aztecs, and Mayans. If you complain those are more Central than North American then do some reading on the Iroquois, Apache, and Lakota Sioux and how they waged war against their neighbors long before the white man showed up.

Get off the high horse, the "Native American" is no more "Native" than the white man and surely no more morally superior in how they dealt with their neighbors.

Jack

LOL

Y'all need to lighten up. This is what happens when you take something too serious on a hooker board.

LOL

Y'all need to lighten up. This is what happens when you take something too serious on a hooker board. Originally Posted by MsElena

I take eveything you say seriously young lady. Too bad we have never met! I would enjoy your mind as much as your body I am sure!

:rofl mao::roflmao :

Technically you're all illegals unless you're Native American Indian. Originally Posted by MsElena

Maybe. But what good are jobs if they don't pay well? Adult Americans as head of households can't support families making 5 bucks an hour. 200 bucks a week BEFORE taxes? No way in hell. It's not like illegal aliens are occupying all the kick ass jobs that pay decent money. How many illegals are paying for houses, cars, school supplies, and hell, TAXES?? Medical bills? Insurance. You can't pay for all that working a 9-5 at McDonald's. Those are teenager, mall shopping wages.

America needs to create REAL jobs, jobs that families can live off of. I'm not saying make everyone a six figure earner. When CEO's are making MILLIONS by themselves, plus living off the company because they don't pay for shit, then there's plenty of money to go around. Many CEO's wages can pay a dozen workers a quality wage, easy.

Not only are there no decent jobs, but corporate gotta charge out the ass for other things. Daily living expenses like groceries and gas, cost a lot.

Why in the hell is CA so greedy? It's crazy.

Rambocreed the minimum wage is over $7 an hour so no one is making $5 an hour unless they can expect tips or there is something really wrong with them.

I'm sorry Ms Elena but that little throw out is used by many very serious people to excuse illegal aliens. Nobody is a native using that argument. The mound builders came from somewhere. The asian landbridge according to many.

Technically things are only illegal if a law is passed to prohibit it. Prior to United States immigration laws there was no illegal immigration. So that argument is pretty bogus (the native American argument).

We do have laws now and they were put in place for a reason though you may say that reason was racism but the authorities wanted to maintain a majority US culture when it looked like the US was going to be overrun by people with little concept of representative government, fair play, and being tolerant to other religions. Yes, we didn't exactly live up to these standards but at least we are trying.

So what do we do about illegal immigration? Laws were broken (yeah I am aware of the irony) and people shouldn't profit from that. More importantly to some of us is national security. If the border allows anyone to cross then ANYONE will cross including people looking to do harm to the people of the US. The border must be secure!
Once the border is secure then the people here have to be convinced to leave or induced to leave. Some people have been here for a very long time and allowances must be made to preserve families. Some countries (UAE for one) require a person to work for 20 years for the opportunity to apply for citizenship with no guarantee of recieving that citizenship. We could repeat that in this country; conditions and times for good citizenship before being able to apply for that privilege. One felony bust and you're gone, a record of bad citizenship and you're history, become a budren on society and you're burning a bridge forever. On the other hand, join the military cut some years off, pay your own way through college and chop off a few more years, contribute in an important way and welcome Mr. US citizen.

Unfortunately this is more important than a sound bite but that is our media today. What Newt Gringrich broke from the sound bite mode and the press was unprepared. He mentioned the work of the Krieble Foundation and the media didn't want to mention that little fact. If they did then people would ask what it was and precious minutes in the news cast would have to go to the explanation.

Even if it created enough jobs for all legal Americans, it wouldn't matter. Everyone feels that cleaning toilets, working in the fields, etc. is too beneath them. We've become a fat lazy country.

It started when parents let television raise their kids and now video games do the same thing. No wonder vampires are so chic now days, most of these kids hardly ever see sunshine. Many kids today go off to college never even working a summer job.

Every summer from 6th grade I was sent off to a family friend's farm and learned what hard work was. Bucked hay until I was old enough to get a regular summer job.

@ BigMike...a sad, but very true commentary on today's society.

And just as a side note:

Heck, even with grade school kids, so many of them spend hours playing video games or lurking behind a computer screen.

Now there is nothing wrong with our kids discovering the wonderful technology that computer brings to us. But IMO part of the reason, not the only one however, why kids are so
obese compared to our days, was our free time was spent going outside and playing sports, hanging with the neighborhood kids, trying to steal a copy of Penthouse at the local QT (probably should not mention the last one, damm LITTLE PERVERTS) rather than just sitting eating doritos and playing on the computer and only interfacing with others thru the hyperspace of the Internet.

Ok, now where did I put my doritos...behind the computer screen???

[quote=vkmaster;1883132, trying to steal a copy of Penthouse at the local QT [/quote]

Now that really pisses me off. We had to use devious methods, that could have consequences, to get our porn. These little shits just need to turn on the computer!

Hell I thought I was the only one that hung out at QT for the porn.