The God/No God Thread

Im curious 1Nemesis why you feel there is no God please explain the basis for the position if you would please.

Im curious 1Nemesis why you feel there is no God please explain the basis for the position if you would please. Originally Posted by Grifter

Thanks for starting the thread Grifter, but I am curious, where do you stand?
God or no god?

He asked you first.

He asked you first. Originally Posted by Mokoa

Grifter did you say something ?

Im curious 1Nemesis why you feel there is no God please explain the basis for the position if you would please. Originally Posted by Grifter

I am a Secular Humanist, it's a philosophical way of life that primarily rejects supernaturalism and is guided by reason and the belief in the common good for man without external influences.

I believe what is believed but not what I have to believe. There is no proof of a divine power.

Since you asked what I believe is that there is a God, is he a supernatural father figure? I dont think so, not in the context that human being perceive such things. While I subscribe to the values that Christ preached I cant count myself as a Christian because I have real doubts that the kind and loving God describe in the Bible would send the Jews and Muslims to hell for worshiping him albeit in a different manner than described as proper in the Bible.

I will grant you that reason alone will get in the way when viewing religion, if you have never felt the presence of something larger than yourself its a hard concept to accept. By reason and proof I assume you mean science. So let me walk you down a path, the basis of all science is math and oberservation. Mathmatically its been proven that 11 dimensions exist but we only occupy 4 of them. That leaves 7 that we have have mathmatic proof of existence but zero idea whats in them or what they consist of, Membrane theory. Now if we only perceive a bit more than 1/3 of the total universe and havent explored any further than the our own solar system in the 4 dimensions that we do occupy and perceive how can you discount anything if you rely solely on reason?

Disclaimer: If I have any part of Membrane Theory wrong please correct it, I have read about it but cannot do the math attached to it.

If there was "proof" behind a Devine power then everyone would believe in him. The point is to have faith in something without proof. That is the test. Everyone has the choice to believe or not. Hence free will. Believing in God without proof ... That would be faith.

Since you asked what I believe is that there is a God, is he a supernatural father figure? I dont think so, not in the context that human being perceive such things. While I subscribe to the values that Christ preached I cant count myself as a Christian because I have real doubts that the kind and loving God describe in the Bible would send the Jews and Muslims to hell for worshiping him albeit in a different manner than described as proper in the Bible.

I will grant you that reason alone will get in the way when viewing religion, if you have never felt the presence of something larger than yourself its a hard concept to accept. By reason and proof I assume you mean science. So let me walk you down a path, the basis of all science is math and oberservation. Mathmatically its been proven that 11 dimensions exist but we only occupy 4 of them. That leaves 7 that we have have mathmatic proof of existence but zero idea whats in them or what they consist of, Membrane theory. Now if we only perceive a bit more than 1/3 of the total universe and havent explored any further than the our own solar system in the 4 dimensions that we do occupy and perceive how can you discount anything if you rely solely on reason?

Disclaimer: If I have any part of Membrane Theory wrong please correct it, I have read about it but cannot do the math attached to it. Originally Posted by Grifter

The reason I became a little tentative and asked where you stood was out of concern I was going to engage in a debate that would not bear fruit as discussions about the existence of God most often do.
Religion is for some, more than just belief in God, but a place where people can take their existential dilemmas, sense of existence, moral uncertainties, their fear of death, life significance and disgust with their own impulses and find answers. So treating religion as a simple yes or no proposition ignores a great deal of what’s going on when people disagree about religion or the existence of God.

As you know, I am a Secular Humanist and not an Atheist, although we are linked and related, reason and science drives our life philosophy and in doing so, also means that I am not an absolutist and therein lies the difference between Humanists and Atheist.

I am a strict disciple of critical thinking and skepticism, but not in the classical sense of skepticism, but a new version of skepticism that rejects absolutism and embraces and recognizes the existence of possibilities.
I know this is contradictory to some of the comments I make about politics where I play an absolutist quite convincingly, but there is a psychological reason behind my comments and the way that I proselytize is very calculated and deliberate.

So yes!! I am very familiar with Quantum Physics and the theory of multiple dimensions like string theory, bubble theory, multiverses and the like. I do wish to understand the mathematics involved but I think it's beyond my capabilities, but for me, not understanding the mathematics does not negate the possibilities of such dimensions.

I often daydream and think deeply about such possibilities and the idea that their is a duplicate of our being in another dimension with very different outcomes or that this dimension is in the room with us, is to me, just fascinating. I love to think about where this could lead us in the future and into the possibilities of a higher consciousness beyond the intellectually egregious path we've been traveling at this point in history. The idea of something coming from nothing is what I've been contemplating and reading some of the publications from Stephen Hawking on his calculations about the birth of the universe.

God could very well exist, but until I see substantial evidence of such, I will take the position that he does not. The more that I learn concerning the vastness of the universe and the randomness of such including our existence and the formation of life, leads me further and further away from existence of an all encompassing being or creator.

Humanists such as myself recognize the importance that religion has played in history but we also recognize the damage it is doing to the world and the violence and death committed in the name of God and it is this fact, that has motivated us to educate people on all levels as it invariably results in the rejection of a supernatural being controlling the universe. Hence the current obsession from the religious right in demonizing intellectualism, institutions of higher learning and academia in general. The dumbing down of America has so far succeeded but with this new generation and a major part of my generation x, we are making significant advances towards a secular society and government.

I have much more to say but I'll let you and Jezebel respond at this point…..

If there was "proof" behind a Devine power then everyone would believe in him. The point is to have faith in something without proof. That is the test. Everyone has the choice to believe or not. Hence free will. Believing in God without proof ... That would be faith. Originally Posted by Naughty_Jezabelle

A very important observation and your acuity concerning the differences between faith, free will, and belief are very important in this conversation Jezebelle.

I hope you stay engaged in this thread because a woman can bring a perspective on the existence of God or how religion fits into society that a man cannot simply because our brains work differently and you create life and are the hinge pin to the very existence of the human race

Jezebelle, if I told you that your thoughts and everything you do or say is beyond your control as a result of the chemical reactions and electrical occurrences necessary to form a thought in your brain, how would that fact influence your belief in God? Well, if you believe, I'm not quite sure you've said that you do.

>God could very well exist, but until I see substantial evidence of such, I will take the >position that he does not.

Sad little secular humanist who will go "poof" upon death. Your role in the universe is truly a lot more than that. I pray you grow out of it.

The question that I have for people who are skeptical but dont search for something to believe in is why? I dont see much upside in being a non-believer vs having faith in something.

The question that I have for people who are skeptical but dont search for something to believe in is why? I dont see much upside in being a non-believer vs having faith in something. Originally Posted by Grifter

There is a psychological/physical factor between you and me that has to do with the brain that needs to be clarified but before I do, what is the something that you speak of? It sounds as though you believe there are other things besides God to choose from and if there are, what are they?

>God could very well exist, but until I see substantial evidence of such, I will take the >position that he does not.

Sad little secular humanist who will go "poof" upon death. Your role in the universe is truly a lot more than that. I pray you grow out of it. Originally Posted by uthorn

Just poof?!? That's it? I was looking forward to hell…...

There is a psychological/physical factor between you and me that has to do with the brain that needs to be clarified but before I do, what is the something that you speak of? It sounds as though you believe there are other things besides God to choose from and if there are, what are they? Originally Posted by 1NEMESIS

No I dont believe in anything else, Im just making a generalization that if I believed in nothing or that this time on Earth is the extent of my existence I would find the whole thing really fucking hollow and my time here would be lived considerably differently. I think if I didnt have faith in anything I would be actively looking for that answer that haunts plenty of people, the what does it all mean, or simply why? Why this? Why me? Why? However I believe in the God that the jews, christians and muslims worship I just dont believe that hes going to send 2/3s of that equation to hell which excludes me from being Christian.

No I dont believe in anything else, Im just making a generalization that if I believed in nothing or that this time on Earth is the extent of my existence I would find the whole thing really fucking hollow and my time here would be lived considerably differently. I think if I didnt have faith in anything I would be actively looking for that answer that haunts plenty of people, the what does it all mean, or simply why? Why this? Why me? Why? However I believe in the God that the jews, christians and muslims worship I just dont believe that hes going to send 2/3s of that equation to hell which excludes me from being Christian. Originally Posted by Grifter

Oh ok, I understand what your saying, besides the physical difference in the brain I was alluding to earlier, it may be that environmental influences during our developmental years as children have played a major factor in how we see life.
I rejected God at a very young age, my parents are catholics and I was baptized but they never pushed church or God on me. As far back as I can remember, I knew that Santa was fictional and I didn't connect with what the priest was saying the few times I went to church.
I used to spend hours on end with my head buried in the World Book Encyclopedia and I think that's what lead me to Humanism more than anything else.
My belief is centered on humans and maximizing our time on earth in the here and now and I'm just not calibrated for the "Why" question as I am calibrated for my path and goals