Do reviews count as references?

To keep my other thread on topic, I'm moving this discussion to a new thread.

i'm sorry ladies but the idea that an established hobby member who has reviews needs to provide references sounds like paranoia to me.

Be realistic, off of BP where no references are required most of the time, ladies continue to do business. Some of them over several years in the same place here in SA.

And I have been turned down on this site by VIPs here who are dead set on the reference racket.

I say racket, because when you get a bunch of money grabbers in on the scene like 411, it gets a little silly.

Maybe their agencies are making the rules, or maybe a provider is over cautious, but refusing an established member who has loads of reviews?

Naw! In the past when turned down by an ECCIE VIP frustrated I go to BP and never fail to find what I need.

Otherwise off of this site I have a few favorites, they all know who they are. It is because they are still here that I continue to support the site, but I don't do reviews anymore.

I quit that when those newbie providers I found would jack up their rates after a review got published. And I am not the only one doing that.

So realistically ladies if you want the regulars off of this board you need to adjust the reference rules for them. And to be quite honest with you, some of yall's conditions for applying for a pre approval read like a college law book!

For new members here who have no reviews and so no background to check out, sure send them the legalese by the ton!


But it needs streamlining and standardization. For example we could have a thread/webforum for VIPs only where they list the ECCIE members they have seen/are in good standing.
Originally Posted by sanan

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I use refs if you have them because it makes me more comfortable, doesn't mean Im not newbie friendly, but it is not without caution that I see these folks who dont have refs or just reviews from people I have never personally met.

Also, for those who do require refs 100% of the time, anyone could say their handle is so and so. What if this person lent his handle and password to a friend? Then the reviews would not be legit. A description from a provider could help in determining if the guy is who he says he is. So, in this case, the ref is helpful. Originally Posted by Pepper_Springfield

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There is a false assumption being made that a hobbyist with a lot of reviews should not need references. There are many issues that this ignores. Are the reviews legit? Is the person calling using the handle the same as the person who wrote the reviews? Are there personality quirks the provider should learn about? I am sure there are other things providers consider that I am not necessarily aware of. Originally Posted by Laz

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Also, you have to remember, the review is from the guys point of view, what if the provider didn't like the guy. Like what if he was stinky, bad breath, rough? There could be all sorts of things a girl might want to warn someone about. Originally Posted by Pepper_Springfield

I don't think I have alot of reviews but mistakes do happen.
Even if you are well reviewed/do alot of reviews, people want to just make sure.
I was accused of being a cash-n-dash person.
Tore me up so much to have that accusation that I just about dropped out.
Fortunately the mistake was discovered.
I just wish there was a way could have browbeat the person that made that false call (little that would do.) Originally Posted by Precious_b

This is NOT just about newbies, this is about the already vetted and proven membership here, like for example one review is well; silly. Ain't worth the cheap pack of lies it is to depend to. But somebody that has a dozen or more is HIGHLY UNLIKELY to be any danger to a VIP.


So yeah if you have 4 reviews and you are new here you will be nutting on the provider side of this issue, i.e, everybody needs to provide refs.

Ok so guess what happens now?

I don't have the time, I am way toooo busy with other things, and besides the whole point of joining ECCIE is to AVOID this silly nonsense of refs. Note I do NOT support 411 nor recommend their cheap Canadian rip off verify for dollars scam.

Nuff on that one fer now.

But back to the verification for established hobbyists here on ECCIE, it is just silly! As I already noted one can get it off of BP for a lot less and no refs needed. I have done that several times. Others I just get and drive to see what is on the market around sundown ... many a nice score there, all the twenties every where you go in this town if you shop around...

Pepper thinks members share passwords to get a session. Tell me about it? Maybe your share your pass with others for some purpose but you can bet your bottom dollar the hobbyists don't, and it is easy to see why
Originally Posted by sanan

Ah you sound like an agent!

Get some real miles on yer rubber and tell me that in two years time!
Originally Posted by sanan

Ya know I get where you are at.

But when a hobbyist with a dozen reviews over like three or more years sends a pm about a session, you'd be nutz to ask for a reference.

My 2 cents.. Originally Posted by sanan

What is the powder room for?

Originally Posted by sanan

My 0.02 on this.
Whatever it takes to make the ladies feel safe and comfortable to see someone. Originally Posted by sanantonioman37

I must be the worlds worst agent since I pay like everyone else and don't get any money from any ladies. Need to work on my agent skills.

As for the references. Use common sense and you will understand why the ladies want them. This is not rocket science. If you like BP stick with it. Originally Posted by Laz

Also, you have to remember, the review is from the guys point of view, what if the provider didn't like the guy. Like what if he was stinky, bad breath, rough? There could be all sorts of things a girl might want to warn someone about. Originally Posted by Pepper_Springfield

I don't think I have alot of reviews but mistakes do happen.
Even if you are well reviewed/do alot of reviews, people want to just make sure.
I was accused of being a cash-n-dash person.
Tore me up so much to have that accusation that I just about dropped out.
Fortunately the mistake was discovered.
I just wish there was a way could have browbeat the person that made that false call (little that would do.) Originally Posted by Precious_b

This is NOT just about newbies, this is about the already vetted and proven membership here, like for example one review is well; silly. Ain't worth the cheap pack of lies it is to depend to. But somebody that has a dozen or more is HIGHLY UNLIKELY to be any danger to a VIP.


So yeah if you have 4 reviews and you are new here you will be nutting on the provider side of this issue, i.e, everybody needs to provide refs.

Ok so guess what happens now?

I don't have the time, I am way toooo busy with other things, and besides the whole point of joining ECCIE is to AVOID this silly nonsense of refs. Note I do NOT support 411 nor recommend their cheap Canadian rip off verify for dollars scam.

Nuff on that one fer now.

But back to the verification for established hobbyists here on ECCIE, it is just silly! As I already noted one can get it off of BP for a lot less and no refs needed. I have done that several times. Others I just get and drive to see what is on the market around sundown ... many a nice score there, all the twenties every where you go in this town if you shop around...

Pepper thinks members share passwords to get a session. Tell me about it? Maybe your share your pass with others for some purpose but you can bet your bottom dollar the hobbyists don't, and it is easy to see why
Originally Posted by sanan

Ah you sound like an agent!

Get some real miles on yer rubber and tell me that in two years time!
Originally Posted by sanan

Ya know I get where you are at.

But when a hobbyist with a dozen reviews over like three or more years sends a pm about a session, you'd be nutz to ask for a reference.

My 2 cents.. Originally Posted by sanan

What is the powder room for?

Originally Posted by sanan

My 0.02 on this.
Whatever it takes to make the ladies feel safe and comfortable to see someone. Originally Posted by sanantonioman37

I must be the worlds worst agent since I pay like everyone else and don't get any money from any ladies. Need to work on my agent skills.

As for the references. Use common sense and you will understand why the ladies want them. This is not rocket science. If you like BP stick with it. Originally Posted by Laz

Hard to believe you actually wrote that last phrase, given the current climate of violence that exists in the Hobby these days.

The number of reviews and/or number of years as a member is irrelevant to a lady who has not seen you yet or does not know you. Look through the various Alert forums on this site. The ladies have every right to be cautious or even paranoid. After all, we are talking about their safety. If a lady's requirements are not to your linking, simply move on. As I have staed repeatedly...

The ladies have the unalienable right to run their business as they see fit.
The gentlemen have the unalienable right to choose who they want to see.

It is really no simpler than that. Originally Posted by Mokoa

The original intent of this thread was to identify the best ways of getting referrals processed by providers and what if anything the hobbyist can do to simplify the process. That is still a good discussion to have so maybe we can get back to that and off this sidetrack of if referrals are necessary. Originally Posted by Laz

gee sanan - I honestly hope you are not using your reviewing history as a basis for your theroy...

Laz - I agree and personally I simply asked the lady if she would be a referral and let her tell me what she prefers....life is really so simple Originally Posted by dennisrn

Very well said Laz. I think sanan also said that he doesn't support p411 because of the money. I don't do p411 either, but have no problem giving providers references from other ladies I have seen and it doesn't cost a dime. i would rather they be comfortable and know they are safe when seeing me.

On another note, what's with all the emoticons after every sentence or so? Seems like overkill... Originally Posted by darter

sanan- I am sorry but your reply is completely baseless. In my opinion moronic in nature. Pepper is right that a provider does not know where those reviews came from. LE can get a hold of a handle. Screening is for safety and to make sure they will enjoy their time with a guy.

Geesh.... get with the program. Originally Posted by latinalover003

HEY! It has happened to me before. Someone didn't wanna join, made an appt through his friends account and then when he came over he wasn't the same guy I had seen before. I remembered cause it was just the month before and the guy had brought me a gift along with my donation. So yeah, it has happened. Luckily the guy was cool so I didn't have a cow about it.

And Sanan, you have no place telling a provider how to run her business. You don't like it, move on to the next girl. That's all there is to it. You don't have to get you panties in a wad over nothing. Originally Posted by Pepper_Springfield

+1 Originally Posted by JohnnyYanks

There, now everyone's comments on this topic are moved over

It's not uncommon for Sanan to state such. Since he tried that BS review as screening, with me. Declined!


HELL NO reviews do NOT act as references nor screening!

How does a review a hobbyist wrote, tell a lady how that particular hobbyists (all while Behind Locked Doors) behaved, how he treated said lady/ies, and whether or not he harmed her/them in any way or shorted her/their donations etc etc. And how do we know said date even took place????

Hobbyists providing references and the feedback from said references are what constetuites as proper screening. Not fictional reviews on sex sites.
And if a hobbyists refuses to provide proper references. Then it's a sign of his lack of respect & concern for your safety. Do you seriously want to be BCD with a man like that??

To keep my other thread on topic, I'm moving this discussion to a new thread. Originally Posted by atxdream

Your so hot when you angry

Excellent points Wicked. You are completely right.

As both Pepper and WM have mentioned, reviews should never be used as a screening tool. PM's through the site can be useful to determine if the person scheduling is who they say they are, and yes, you can take a look at the reviews to see if there is any intelligence to gather from it. I suspect there is very little as the fine ladies here don't have access to the ROS (no flames here, I said the fine ladies...). Given the way eccie reviews are structured there isn't a lot of information outside of the ROS that might be of use to the ladies other than forming an opinion of the dudes tastes in companions. I would posit that even that is a stretch as I don't review every session or provider, and I suspect most of the hardlegs here don't either.

Since screening is about security I can't imagine the ladies not wanting to have direct communication with the references with some standard questions. For the guys all we really have are the reviews, some of which are imagined events. If comments from a few of the ladies are accurate, more than a few are imagined. I have found the best intelligence on the ladies comes through direct communication with other dudes with a bit more experience under their belt. We rarely agree on the ideal companion, but we do know each others tastes to some degree. More importantly, it is the best place to find out about the flakes who will get us all stirred up with nowhere to blow.

I agree with Rover I have been around a long time and I rarely review a girl unless she asks me to. My review count on eccie is only two but as some of the fine ladies here can tell you. I hobby allot more frequently than that. So by no means should reviews be a bearing on screening. I have no problem with submitting screening info. This is an intimate hobby we are invloved in. All parties should be made to feel safe.

Damn, it would have been easier to change the other thread's title than to re-quote everything over here.

TFF!

...ijs.

It's not uncommon for Sanan to state such. Since he tried that BS review as screening, with me. Declined!


HELL NO reviews do NOT act as references nor screening!

How does a review a hobbyist wrote, tell a lady how that particular hobbyists (all while Behind Locked Doors) behaved, how he treated said lady/ies, and whether or not he harmed her/them in any way or shorted her/their donations etc etc. And how do we know said date even took place????

Hobbyists providing references and the feedback from said references are what constetuites as proper screening. Not fictional reviews on sex sites.
And if a hobbyists refuses to provide proper references. Then it's a sign of his lack of respect & concern for your safety. Do you seriously want to be BCD with a man like that?? Originally Posted by Wicked Milf

Why doesn't it act as a reference, may I ask?
The reference provider's name and contact information is handed to you on a silver platter along with the date they supposedly saw each other.


Seems to me that it pretty much answers ALL of the questions most providers request as far as a reference is concerned.

The most common being;
Name; Contact info; Date you saw them; etc.

Now it's up to the provider to take that information and contact the provider and verify as well as ask any other questions she feels necessary in order to make a decision.

How is this information any different than what you ask with regard to a reference?

I would certainly like to hear why these reviews, cannot be used as referrals towards their reference, being that all the necessary information is contained in the public area of the review.

To me, it's the same as filling out the reference request information blanks, line by line.

It's the same information just in a little different format. Actually, there is more information contained in the public area of a review than is typically required by a provider.



The body of the review is irrelevant because it's ROS and
providers aren't supposed to be able to read that part anyway..

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I would certainly like to hear why these reviews, cannot be used as referrals towards their reference, being that all the necessary information is contained in the public area of the review. Originally Posted by SofaKingFun

I don't think anyone is saying the reviews can't be used "as referrals towards their reference", they most certainly can. Going by all of sanan's comments on the matter, it seems he wants just the reviews to be used with no checking up with the women in the reviews.

Next time you want to set something up, try telling the lady - go look through my reviews and get my references that way. See how far that gets ya.

Ahh...so these can be used and are references. That's good to know.

However, the verification portion of this comes when the ladies take the information provided from the reference and make their inquiries.

The verification from the reference along with the answers to said inquiries
is what's known as a, vouch. Correct?

These parts make up the entire process which is known as, screening, did I get that right?

So if one of these elements is missing, or a step is skipped, then that would be considered a half-ass job of screening, is that correct?

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I

Next time you want to set something up, try telling the lady - go look through my reviews and get my references that way. See how far that gets ya. Originally Posted by BigBudha

This is exactly how I have done it after contacting with a PM and physical description. All I'm going to do is copy and paste the info anyway.

BINGO!!!!

I don't think anyone is saying the reviews can't be used "as referrals towards their reference", they most certainly can. Going by all of sanan's comments on the matter, it seems he wants just the reviews to be used with no checking up with the women in the reviews.

Next time you want to set something up, try telling the lady - go look through my reviews and get my references that way. See how far that gets ya. Originally Posted by BigBudha