From the Alert's Section: "Alerts - Kansas City Metro and Kansas Issues which could endanger the safety of a member or members of our community go here. Please reserve this space for legitimate alerts, and not general FYI material."
Which charges are serious enough to justify an Alert & how much information should be given in the Alert? There is a trade-off between privacy and safety.
Here are a few scenarios to consider:
A) A lady is charged with Prostitution.
B) A gentleman is charged with Soliciting.
C) A gentleman is charged with Promoting.
D) A lady is charged with "something serious" (to be defined).
E) A gentleman is charged with "something serious" (to be defined).
Let's start with the primary question:
What charges/arrests/scenarios "endanger the safety of a member or members of our community"?
- BiggestBest
- 05-16-2010, 10:59 AM
- MsElena
- 05-16-2010, 11:46 AM
I believe that if a provider is arrested and it is a KNOWN FACT, then post her provider name and date she was arrested. No other information is needed to be given, because unless you've been hired to represent her in court, you don't need to know any other info.
Other charges "something serious" for men or women in the hobby, I don't think that is truly any business of mine, yours or anyone else. Now, if those charges were something like human trafficking and pimping the girls out, that's another story because it directly effects the hobby world.
Because of the internet, a lot of people think they have the right to know everything about person and that's not true. Its not a given right and you're invading someone's privacy. The research that a few of you do on providers scares me and makes me think that you have way too much time on your hands. Maybe time for a new hobby (pardon the pun). If a provider did that to hobbyists, you guys would put a scarlett letter on her.
Other charges "something serious" for men or women in the hobby, I don't think that is truly any business of mine, yours or anyone else. Now, if those charges were something like human trafficking and pimping the girls out, that's another story because it directly effects the hobby world.
Because of the internet, a lot of people think they have the right to know everything about person and that's not true. Its not a given right and you're invading someone's privacy. The research that a few of you do on providers scares me and makes me think that you have way too much time on your hands. Maybe time for a new hobby (pardon the pun). If a provider did that to hobbyists, you guys would put a scarlett letter on her.
- midwestmonique
- 05-16-2010, 01:08 PM
Well on the national board all the hobbyists have their panties in a wad over spokeo. They are all trying to have their info deleted. So ur right elena, they don't like for us to go searching!
- BiggestBest
- 05-16-2010, 02:28 PM
Hadn't heard of spokeo before.
It has more stuff wrong than right for me. Yes, I'm male, but I'm not married to a male named Ben nor do I live in a $1M+ house with no heat or A/C. (Ben would have to be pretty cute and have way more than $1M...
)
But no one has addressed the primary question yet:
What charges/arrests/scenarios "endanger the safety of a member or members of our community"?
It has more stuff wrong than right for me. Yes, I'm male, but I'm not married to a male named Ben nor do I live in a $1M+ house with no heat or A/C. (Ben would have to be pretty cute and have way more than $1M...
)But no one has addressed the primary question yet:
What charges/arrests/scenarios "endanger the safety of a member or members of our community"?
- Guest121212
- 05-16-2010, 03:13 PM
BB - the answer to your question of "What charges/arrests/scenarios "endanger the safety of a member or members of our community"?" is 1) all of them and 2) none of them - as each situation is different and each provider/ "hobbyist" is different and will react differently in any circumstance.
There is no way in knowing if a provider has relinquished client data or had it seized until it is too late (more often than not, even when LE has access to it, they don't bother with it as there is no way in knowing if it is decoy information or real information, etc. - and they can't directly use it much given recent precedence) . . there is no way of knowing if any provider or hobbyist is cooperating, until it is too late. More often than not, unless it is a national Agency or a situation where a minor was / is involved, an arrest of a provider isn't going to put a "hobbyist" in any danger . . . in point of fact, since the OVERWHELMING majority of citations for prostitution NEVER appear as an arrest in any publicly accessible database and are simply tickets issued with a court date or occur in jurisdictions that do not publicly publish booking information, 99% of the time an interested "hobbyist" or member of the community never knows such arrest or citation of a provider has taken place - no information is available at all! I'd hazard a guess that you and most other gentlemen have seen a lady that has been recently arrested or cited in some jurisdiction and suffered no ill effects (or seen a lady "on paper" with, again, no effect to your life). Further, as evidenced in recent investigations, 9 out of 10 times, it is the GENTLEMEN that give up location/ details that cause more gentlemen and then subsequently one or two ladies to be arrested (Prairie Village last year, Olathe, Shawnee a few weeks ago - etc. - all that intel was fed to LE via GENTLEMEN). Rarely is it the provider that cooperates, it is just apparently more "newsworthy" when it is a cooperating provider (think JoCo Jordan). But, name one incident since Jordan that had such an impact . . . I'm coming up blank.
As has been discussed before, I can access the dockets for most any court in the metro and publish links to the names and addresses of "hobbyists" that have been ticketed in stings . . . and they would outweigh the "arrest" alerts 10 (or more - much more) to 1 . . . but then you guys would be screaming bloody murder and I'd be committing career suicide. But, whenever ANY provider appears in an arrest report it is considered an alert and frankly, it isn't . . . not only is it not fair, it can be harmful and cause ill will toward the poster than can lead them to trouble.
I mean, think about it BB - if the provider that gets pinched doesn't say ANYTHING about ANYONE and then suffers having her arrest published here and her personal address and real name outed - when she kept silent on her client's information - isn't it MORE of a violation as a "hobbyist" to do to her what she would NOT do to one of you?? Are you not - by publicly outing her for a citation or arrest of a class B misdemeanor - giving her an incentive to fuck with you, personally - directly? If she kept quiet and requested representation and cut a plea without ever endangering her client info, and if you were the one that made the post to her arrest and you were a client of her's or she knew who you saw and could get your personal info - I might not hold it against her for outing you to LE, ONLY in such circumstance. "Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, nor hell a fury like a woman scorned" . . . I know how I would feel if it happened to me, how would you feel if it happened to you? If you walked into a sting and had another outstanding charge (let's say for instance, a ticket you forgot about) and you were booked into the Johnson County jail to be released on bond do I have the right to publish a link to it outing your real name and home address because the charge slip also includes solicitation? I'd bet you'd feel violated and every gentleman that knew I did such would never see me again if I did it . . . but yet, you and other gentlemen feel that we providers / Escorts should continue to see you when you've outed one of us, even when we're "stand up" ladies and sit silent.
It is a complete double standard and one that should end. IMHO.
Food for thought. Side note, watch Absence of Malice and then maybe you'll have a better appreciation for publicizing (or not publicizing) personal information . . .
Kisses,
- Jackie
There is no way in knowing if a provider has relinquished client data or had it seized until it is too late (more often than not, even when LE has access to it, they don't bother with it as there is no way in knowing if it is decoy information or real information, etc. - and they can't directly use it much given recent precedence) . . there is no way of knowing if any provider or hobbyist is cooperating, until it is too late. More often than not, unless it is a national Agency or a situation where a minor was / is involved, an arrest of a provider isn't going to put a "hobbyist" in any danger . . . in point of fact, since the OVERWHELMING majority of citations for prostitution NEVER appear as an arrest in any publicly accessible database and are simply tickets issued with a court date or occur in jurisdictions that do not publicly publish booking information, 99% of the time an interested "hobbyist" or member of the community never knows such arrest or citation of a provider has taken place - no information is available at all! I'd hazard a guess that you and most other gentlemen have seen a lady that has been recently arrested or cited in some jurisdiction and suffered no ill effects (or seen a lady "on paper" with, again, no effect to your life). Further, as evidenced in recent investigations, 9 out of 10 times, it is the GENTLEMEN that give up location/ details that cause more gentlemen and then subsequently one or two ladies to be arrested (Prairie Village last year, Olathe, Shawnee a few weeks ago - etc. - all that intel was fed to LE via GENTLEMEN). Rarely is it the provider that cooperates, it is just apparently more "newsworthy" when it is a cooperating provider (think JoCo Jordan). But, name one incident since Jordan that had such an impact . . . I'm coming up blank.
As has been discussed before, I can access the dockets for most any court in the metro and publish links to the names and addresses of "hobbyists" that have been ticketed in stings . . . and they would outweigh the "arrest" alerts 10 (or more - much more) to 1 . . . but then you guys would be screaming bloody murder and I'd be committing career suicide. But, whenever ANY provider appears in an arrest report it is considered an alert and frankly, it isn't . . . not only is it not fair, it can be harmful and cause ill will toward the poster than can lead them to trouble.
I mean, think about it BB - if the provider that gets pinched doesn't say ANYTHING about ANYONE and then suffers having her arrest published here and her personal address and real name outed - when she kept silent on her client's information - isn't it MORE of a violation as a "hobbyist" to do to her what she would NOT do to one of you?? Are you not - by publicly outing her for a citation or arrest of a class B misdemeanor - giving her an incentive to fuck with you, personally - directly? If she kept quiet and requested representation and cut a plea without ever endangering her client info, and if you were the one that made the post to her arrest and you were a client of her's or she knew who you saw and could get your personal info - I might not hold it against her for outing you to LE, ONLY in such circumstance. "Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, nor hell a fury like a woman scorned" . . . I know how I would feel if it happened to me, how would you feel if it happened to you? If you walked into a sting and had another outstanding charge (let's say for instance, a ticket you forgot about) and you were booked into the Johnson County jail to be released on bond do I have the right to publish a link to it outing your real name and home address because the charge slip also includes solicitation? I'd bet you'd feel violated and every gentleman that knew I did such would never see me again if I did it . . . but yet, you and other gentlemen feel that we providers / Escorts should continue to see you when you've outed one of us, even when we're "stand up" ladies and sit silent.
It is a complete double standard and one that should end. IMHO.
Food for thought. Side note, watch Absence of Malice and then maybe you'll have a better appreciation for publicizing (or not publicizing) personal information . . .
Kisses,
- Jackie
- MsElena
- 05-16-2010, 06:03 PM
Something that hasn't been touched upon yet.........
In this line of business, not all guys are stand up gentlemen. Most providers have had their share of stalkers or guys who aren't stalkers, but wish to harm a woman or other providers who wish to out another provider. When that alert link is posted, you're giving the listed people above info they might not have had before and something could happen as a result of it.
Just think about if you would want your real name and home address linked in a post. I'm going to go out on a limb and say.......no.
In this line of business, not all guys are stand up gentlemen. Most providers have had their share of stalkers or guys who aren't stalkers, but wish to harm a woman or other providers who wish to out another provider. When that alert link is posted, you're giving the listed people above info they might not have had before and something could happen as a result of it.
Just think about if you would want your real name and home address linked in a post. I'm going to go out on a limb and say.......no.
- BiggestBest
- 05-16-2010, 06:40 PM
Jackie - As you pointed out, the difficulty is that we never know which arrests might be a problem. We can each take the "laissez faire" approach and report nothing. Or we can take the "nervous" approach and report everything. Or we can try to make an assessment of the real danger but then we seem arbitrary.
Posting information carries a danger of retribution for the poster. Your post indicates an understanding for such retribution and perhaps even encourages it. That is not an environment that any of us wants to live in.
People often take the following approach: When it's someone I don't know, it should be reported. When it's me or my friends, it shouldn't. That's a double standard of a different kind.
Elena - We hobbyists sometimes forget the challenges that a lady faces. I had not considered the possibility of stalkers in this situation. Thank you for the reality check.
Posting information carries a danger of retribution for the poster. Your post indicates an understanding for such retribution and perhaps even encourages it. That is not an environment that any of us wants to live in.
People often take the following approach: When it's someone I don't know, it should be reported. When it's me or my friends, it shouldn't. That's a double standard of a different kind.
Elena - We hobbyists sometimes forget the challenges that a lady faces. I had not considered the possibility of stalkers in this situation. Thank you for the reality check.
- Guest121212
- 05-16-2010, 07:27 PM
Jackie . . . We can each take the "laissez faire" approach and report nothing. Or we can take the "nervous" approach and report everything. . .But we don't report everything BB, it is completely one sided, as I and others have pointed out. Elena is correct, if we ladies reported you gentleman's arrests or citations, we'd be black-listed.
Posting information carries a danger of retribution for the poster. Your post indicates an understanding for such retribution and perhaps even encourages it. That is not an environment that any of us wants to live in.
Originally Posted by BiggestBest
My posting was NOT meant to encourage anything BB, it is a topic OFTEN discussed back channel between ladies (the issue of retribution or our own "black listing" a client for his postings). It is MUCH more common with the younger ladies, the ladies in larger cities and the ladies that travel. I didn't encourage anything, I may have opened your eyes (your understanding) to the way the "hobby" world REALLY works / thinks (a LOT of the ladies, at least) . . . but encourage it? - No. It is a STARK reality that you've just not considered or have ignored in your assessment of the endeavor. It has always been there. You're right - that it is NOT an environment ANY of us WANTS to live in - what you (and others) miss (or have missed) is THAT IT IS the enviornment we all live in. I'm far from being one to seek any retribution on anyone - everyone that knows me knows I "let go and let God" . . . but for the VAST MAJORITY of the ladies, they get even. I'll take issue that I encourage anything with my post that hasn't been there and been common practice among working ladies for time immemorial in one incarnation or another.
In all frankness, it seems your view may be marginalized and somewhat sheltered by the relative "safety" you've experienced or presupposed about the endeavor as a whole. I do not mean that in a condescending manner, it may well be a result of the relative drama free nature of KC, the integrity of many of the regular providers here and the people of which you've aligned yourself with (privately) . . . that may not be a "bad" thing . . . but it isn't the real world.
Kisses,
- Jackie
- sexy_paris
- 06-08-2010, 03:53 PM
I dont feel it is anyone business who is arrested unless it is for hurting or robbing or setting another person up to be arrested.
point blank... yeah ive been arreted a couple times.. who hasnt.. its boards like this that we have to insure the safty of both providers and hobbiests.. to just put someones business up for driving on suspended is IRRELIVENT to what is REALLY going on on this board!!
point blank.
xoxoxoxo
sexy p.
point blank... yeah ive been arreted a couple times.. who hasnt.. its boards like this that we have to insure the safty of both providers and hobbiests.. to just put someones business up for driving on suspended is IRRELIVENT to what is REALLY going on on this board!!
point blank.
xoxoxoxo
sexy p.
- dirty dog
- 06-08-2010, 05:12 PM
Its the business of the hobbyist to know who he is with, in this case it was driving suspended, but what if it had been possession (not saying you use drugs), an arrest goes down the hobbyist not only gets a solicting charge he now may face drug charges as well. I am sorry but I disagree that its no ones business. Most ladies like to screen and get our information, but we should not know if a provider has been arrested and maybe compromised by LE, sorry no. I do not agree with posting your address but then maybe that may be something better directed at JOCO sherriff's office since they were the initial posters.
- sexy_paris
- 06-08-2010, 10:01 PM
yeah they put it on their website... and BB Posted it on here the sherrifs offic did not.
- dirty dog
- 06-08-2010, 10:40 PM
Oh so one internet is different than another? I thought it was one big world wide web. You know when I was in prison, my parents came to visit one sat. I was complaining about the lack of privacy, having to use the bathroom with someone else watching or able to watch. My Dad gave me some solid advise, he said "son, if you dont want people watching your shit, then dont go to prison". Not trying to argue with you, but as I have been told over and over again, there are consequences to your actions. If your worried about your kid or someone finding out about what you do, then go back to school, get an education and get a job that you feel your kid would be proud for you to have. As for the danger, the post was edited so fast I am sure very few people even saw your personal information. However, this does bring a question to mind, posting arrests in alerts is not a new phenomenon, how come you never claimed it was a bad idea when it was some elses information, there are other women here who have been very vocal against the postings, but did not wait until it was their information to protest. I am done with this post, I dont need to defend BB as he is a very capable young man and is more than able to do it himself.
- BiggestBest
- 06-09-2010, 01:43 AM
yeah they put it on their website... and BB Posted it on here the sherrifs offic did not. Originally Posted by sexy_parisSee the truth here:
http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?t=50048&p=344108
- Grizzly
- 06-09-2010, 04:43 AM
BB I gotta ask are you that bored or got that much free time on your hands that you have time to go thru the sheriff's website looking at who got arrested plus their mugshots and what the charges were. I know its public information, but I got more important things to do with my time than to be worried about who has got arrested & when or why.
I have been hobbying since 2004 and never had any problems with any of the providers I have made aquaintences with. Yes a few of them had your normal legal problems and been arrested, but did I feel like they would turn me in no. I just go with my gut.
To me a persons arrest record should be kept private much the same with a persons medical records. The only time the public should know a persons arrest record if they are a danger to themselves/or other members of society.
I have had my eye on Paris for sometime but everytime shes in town, I never have money or I have had to work.
I have been hobbying since 2004 and never had any problems with any of the providers I have made aquaintences with. Yes a few of them had your normal legal problems and been arrested, but did I feel like they would turn me in no. I just go with my gut.
To me a persons arrest record should be kept private much the same with a persons medical records. The only time the public should know a persons arrest record if they are a danger to themselves/or other members of society.
I have had my eye on Paris for sometime but everytime shes in town, I never have money or I have had to work.
- dirty dog
- 06-09-2010, 07:55 AM
Yeah him and about 50 other hobbyists have time to review it. Its not hard its called a search function. Your really working on that discount O, let us know how it works out. Again check your facts before opening your lips, BB's post did not link the JOCO site, nor did it give out personal information. It linked her backpage ad, maybe after you have been arrested and had your life turned upside down, you might have a different view point. Just think, if it weren't for the guys "with that much free time on their hands" to do all the research and dirty work of posting scams, alerts and LE warnings, you may not have been "hobbying since 2004 and never had a problem" Been hobbying since 1984 and believe me I have seen lots of guys have lots of problems.
Final point, "The only time the public should know a persons arrest record if they are a danger to themselves/or other members of society."
This is the whole point of the alert, to warn other hobbyists that a provider was arrested, its better to know before you see them so you can make an informed decision than to wait until after they are putting the handcuffs on you because she was more interested in protecting her life and family that yours so when they told her that she could walk if she would wear a wire and work in a sting operation. I am not saying Paris is or has, I am only saying that when they are arrested the possibility exists and it has happened before.
Final point, "The only time the public should know a persons arrest record if they are a danger to themselves/or other members of society."
This is the whole point of the alert, to warn other hobbyists that a provider was arrested, its better to know before you see them so you can make an informed decision than to wait until after they are putting the handcuffs on you because she was more interested in protecting her life and family that yours so when they told her that she could walk if she would wear a wire and work in a sting operation. I am not saying Paris is or has, I am only saying that when they are arrested the possibility exists and it has happened before.